[jOrgan-user] Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

Discussion:

John Reimer

2017-06-28 02:11:47 UTC

Hello to all

Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I have an 8 channel
audio system I am using with hauptwerk basic at this time but it only has 2
channel audio in the basic edition so I am not getting the full advantage
of my system. I used jorgan a few years ago but had a much smaller system
at the time. I don't want to spend money to get the advanced addition of
HW in that I think I like jorgan and grandorgue better and no cost. I do
however want to enjoy the advantage of my audio.

My question is does jorgan
have multi channel? My 3 manual digital organ has full midi from the
factory but is a model from early 90's and sound as good as todays
sampling. I am trying to gather information and advice from someone with
experience. Everything, pistons draw knobs, couplers expression is midi. I
would not need touch screens. I have considered Artisan sound engine but
very expensive. I have a i5 dell fast processor with 1 tarabite and 16gigs
ram. If jorgan has multi channel with a little help configuring I have all
I need to have a great sounding organ without spending more. Any with
experience that can give some advice and a little help setting it up would
be most appreciated.

Best regards William

(William posted this elsewhere, but I have made a new a topic for it and
copied the text here.
This is not quite the correct way to handle it, but I do not know the
correct way.
It would help us all if you reply to it here rather than in the other
thread. John Reimer)

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John Reimer

2017-06-28 04:55:27 UTC

Permalink

William,

Please read also the post greenfox has placed in the Release Samples thread
where you placed your initial post. There is one statement he made there
which isn't quite right. He said (as an example) that it is not possible to
arrange for 3rds or 5ths to be placed in separate audio channels using
jOrgan, although it can be done with Hauptwerk. However, it can be done in
jOrgan, if you are prepared to learn how to edit the soundfont files. (And I
have written a tutorial on using the soundfont editor Viena. It is in the
Tutorials page on the jOrgan Wiki webpage.)

You have to learn to edit soundfont files anyway, if you plan to use jOrgan
for more than two audio channels. Most existing jOrgan dispositions use only
one soundfont, and it is commonly loaded into one instance of the sound
engine Fluidsynth (although jOrgan is not limited to using Fluidsynth). For
more than two audio channels, you will usually need more than one soundfont,
and the way to get this is to divide up an existing soundfont into two or
more.

greenfox has rightly pointed out that if you want to use jOrgan in the way
you propose (and it certainly can be used in that way), you will need to
learn quite a lot about making it happen.

John Reimer

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Aaron Laws

2017-06-28 11:28:09 UTC

Permalink

Post by John Reimer
William,
Please read also the post greenfox has placed in the Release Samples thread
where you placed your initial post. There is one statement he made there
which isn't quite right. He said (as an example) that it is not possible to
arrange for 3rds or 5ths to be placed in separate audio channels using
jOrgan, although it can be done with Hauptwerk. However, it can be done in
jOrgan, if you are prepared to learn how to edit the soundfont files. (And I
have written a tutorial on using the soundfont editor Viena. It is in the
Tutorials page on the jOrgan Wiki webpage.)
You have to learn to edit soundfont files anyway, if you plan to use jOrgan
for more than two audio channels. Most existing jOrgan dispositions use only
one soundfont, and it is commonly loaded into one instance of the sound
engine Fluidsynth (although jOrgan is not limited to using Fluidsynth). For
more than two audio channels, you will usually need more than one soundfont,
and the way to get this is to divide up an existing soundfont into two or
more.

I think this isn't perfectly correct either. To divide up stops into more
than two channels, you can also duplicate fluidsynth elements. This may be
memory-taxing, and I haven't tried it, but it seems feasible as Jorgan
doesn't require much memory anyway.

Post by John Reimer
greenfox has rightly pointed out that if you want to use jOrgan in the way
you propose (and it certainly can be used in that way), you will need to
learn quite a lot about making it happen.
John Reimer

John Reimer

2017-06-28 22:51:31 UTC

Permalink

Post by Aaron Laws
I think this isn't perfectly correct either. To divide up stops into more
than two channels, you can also duplicate fluidsynth elements.

Aaron,

As far as I am aware, what I said was correct, but not complete. As well as
creating extra soundfonts (not at all difficult when using an editor if you
are merely extracting and re-arranging existing material), you HAVE to
create in the jOrgan disposition extra Fluidsynth elements into which those
extra soundfonts are loaded. Furthermore, you need to set jOrgan up so that
the audio outputs from the Fluidsynth elements are passed on to the
appropriate soundcard inputs, if you want to use separate audio channels
(which is the whole purpose of the exercise, in the example Rick has given
in his post). For this to happen, jOrgan has to have the WASAPI Fluidsynth
backend installed. (Refer to Graham Goode's tutorial in the jOrgan Wiki
Tutorials page.)

John Reimer

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Lynn Walls

2017-06-28 13:04:17 UTC

Permalink

Does jOrgan have multi channel WHAT? multi channel MIDI? or multi channel AUDIO?

jOrgan itself supports an unlimited number of MIDI output channels. Your ability to
actually utilize any number of MIDI channels is limited only by your computer's complement
of suitable MIDI devices. For each such MIDI device (hard port or virtual port) defined
on your computer jOrgan would support 16 MIDI channels.

jOrgan does NOT support AUDIO channels at all! jOrgan's ONLY output is one or more MIDI
message data streams. Producing audio using jOrgan requires the presence of an internal
or external MIDI-controlled sound renderer (sound source, sound engine, etc.).

Examples of suitable SOFTWARE sound rendering apps include Fluidsynth, SFZ, GigaSampler
(obsolete), Grand Orgue, Hauptwerk, and many others.

Examples of suitable HARDWARE (external) sound renderers include any number of MIDI
controlled synthesizers made by Roland/Edirol, Korg, and many others.

Fluidsynth is a suitable totally software based sound renderer that is presently directly
loadable by jOrgan. Each instance of a Fluidsynth Sound Source element configured within
your jOrgan disposition can only provide a single stereo (2-channel) output stream. But
you can configure any number of Fluidsynth Sound Source elements within your jOrgan
disposition, limited only by the number of actual AUDIO devices available/configured on
your computer.

jOrgan is able to use more than 16 MIDI channels with each instance of an internal
Fluidsynth Sound Source element. It passes jOrgan's MIDI message data directly to the
Fluidsynth app internally, and does NOT require the presence of any actual (real or
virtual) MIDI devices defined/configured on your computer.

But jOrgan can only use 16 MIDI channels with each external (real or virtual) MIDI device
configured on your computer.

CLW

-------------------------------------------------

Post by John Reimer
Hello to all
Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I have an 8 channel
audio system I am using with hauptwerk basic at this time but it only has 2
channel audio in the basic edition so I am not getting the full advantage
of my system. I used jorgan a few years ago but had a much smaller system
at the time. I don't want to spend money to get the advanced addition of
HW in that I think I like jorgan and grandorgue better and no cost. I do
however want to enjoy the advantage of my audio.
My question is does jorgan
have multi channel?

William Blalock

2017-06-28 16:09:55 UTC

Permalink

Good morning Lynn

I wish to thank you for your quick reply to may question. It is quite clear
that you clearly see me as a complete idiot lol and I must admit
my knowledge of VPO and jorgan is limited thus why I reached out to the
jorgan community for help and advice. While my knowledge is very limited I
do have the ability to understand. I currently have an 8 channel
MIDI/AUDIO interface connected between my audio system and computer and
using Hauptwerk Basic Edition and playing thru 2 channels of my system as
according to Hauptwerk I will need there advanced version to utilize all 8
channels. I reached out for help in hopes that jorgan may enable me to
do so. I am an accomplished organist of 45 years and was blessed to have a
father whom was an official church organist at age 14 and played in church
every Sunday he lived up to 80 and played pipe organs all over the world.
That said my experience as a organist by far exceeds that of my computer
and software knowledge. When I opened your email and saw three short
questions WHAT? MIDI? AUDIO? before I was able to read further I knew I
had ask a dumb question lol and felt you were unable to understand a
complete idiot but continued to read further thinking there must be some
answers and a load of information in the very detailed reply. That said it
is no question you have quite a bit of expertize in VPO/Computer technology
and were able to understand exactly what I was hoping to accomplish. As an
experienced organist I often have questions from young students, or
experienced pianist new to the organ reaching out for help and advice and
the questions they ask, like myself with you, clearly show they need help
and like you do all I can to help and share my God given talents. I used
jorgan back in 2011 for about a year and really liked it and it appealed to
me in that it was no cost and could learn before investing a fortune
with the joran forum for help. I found my lack of knowledge didn't fit in
with the community and went with hauptwerk. I was so impressed with jorgan
and have heard some really great set ups and thought I would reach out
again. I think with my limited knowledge with the more advanced VPO's set
up I will go with a sound engine. All built in to one unit, no midi/audio
interface needed, no external computer and no touch screen monitors. Being
I have a 3 manual draw knob organ "fully" midi enabled from the factory
with a very elaborate audio system it seems best to not have all the
external gadgets of a hobbyist set up. I do however; want to thank you for
taking the time and sharing a load of experienced information. Kind
regards

Post by Lynn Walls
Does jOrgan have multi channel WHAT? multi channel MIDI? or multi channel AUDIO?
jOrgan itself supports an unlimited number of MIDI output channels. Your
ability to actually utilize any number of MIDI channels is limited only by
your computer's complement of suitable MIDI devices. For each such MIDI
device (hard port or virtual port) defined on your computer jOrgan would
support 16 MIDI channels.
jOrgan does NOT support AUDIO channels at all! jOrgan's ONLY output is
one or more MIDI message data streams. Producing audio using jOrgan
requires the presence of an internal or external MIDI-controlled sound
renderer (sound source, sound engine, etc.).
Examples of suitable SOFTWARE sound rendering apps include Fluidsynth,
SFZ, GigaSampler (obsolete), Grand Orgue, Hauptwerk, and many others.
Examples of suitable HARDWARE (external) sound renderers include any
number of MIDI controlled synthesizers made by Roland/Edirol, Korg, and
many others.
Fluidsynth is a suitable totally software based sound renderer that is
presently directly loadable by jOrgan. Each instance of a Fluidsynth Sound
Source element configured within your jOrgan disposition can only provide a
single stereo (2-channel) output stream. But you can configure any number
of Fluidsynth Sound Source elements within your jOrgan disposition, limited
only by the number of actual AUDIO devices available/configured on your
computer.
jOrgan is able to use more than 16 MIDI channels with each instance of an
internal Fluidsynth Sound Source element. It passes jOrgan's MIDI message
data directly to the Fluidsynth app internally, and does NOT require the
presence of any actual (real or virtual) MIDI devices defined/configured on
your computer.
But jOrgan can only use 16 MIDI channels with each external (real or
virtual) MIDI device configured on your computer.
CLW
-------------------------------------------------

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BrianS

2017-06-28 16:02:54 UTC

Permalink

Hi Keith.

You can have multi channel audio with jOrgan, by using multiple soundfonts,
and PortAudio extensions and Jack Audio Connection Kit for Windows (or
Linux?)

Graham Goode on this forum, is my go to person for this type of setup. I
think he has a tutorial on exactly this matter, but I don't know where to
find it.

I also use Hauptwerk Adanced edition in order to get the multi channel
audio, and it works like a dream. However, I am busy building a very small
VPO, it is running on Raspbian (Linux variant) for the Raspberry Pi, and my
intension is to use up to 8 channels on this litlle system. Currently I only
use 2 channels, because I am busy building the organ and disposition. I
hope this helps somewhat.

Regards,
Brian.

-----
Regards,

BrianS
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John Reimer

2017-06-28 20:52:53 UTC

Permalink

Post by BrianS
You can have multi channel audio with jOrgan, by using multiple
soundfonts, and PortAudio extensions and Jack Audio Connection Kit for
Windows (or Linux?)
Graham Goode on this forum, is my go to person for this type of setup. I
think he has a tutorial on exactly this matter, but I don't know where to
find it.

BrianS,

Graham's tutorial is listed on the Tutorials page of the jOrgan Wiki.
Here is the link to the Wiki itself:
http://jorgan-home.de/mediawiki_en/index.php?title=Home

John Reimer

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Howard Ashley

2017-06-28 16:55:12 UTC

Permalink

William B.,
I feel your pain (and frustration). I am in much the same boat.
I am a long time organist and have spent the last 25 years working on
advancing my organ technique and the administrative duties that go along
with being a Director of Music. I do, however, have many years as a
Computer Repair Technician, which doesn't necessarily make figuring out a
VPO configuration any easier, but it does take out a lot of the
intimidation factor! I feel that you are misguided in your belief that
going to a hardware Sound Engine will eliminate any need to understand (or
need for) MIDI or Computers or Touch Screens, etc. I mean... how is your
Sound Engine supposed to communicate with your organ console? MIDI of
course, and you'd better be able to at least understand how MIDI assigns
channels to organ divisions at a minimum. If I had a 3 manual drawknob
organ fully MIDI'ed with a very elaborate audio system you had best believe
I would be *playing* that beast, daily, instead of mucking around with VPO
hardware and software! I don't care how 'bad' it sounds, it really can't
sound that bad and be so substantial in its hardware offerings. Bottom
line, I suspect that if you can get a hardware Sound Engine running with
your organ console, you can also get J'Organ running, the demands on you
are very similar in either case. FWIW.

Post by William Blalock
Good morning Lynn
I wish to thank you for your quick reply to may question. It is quite
clear that you clearly see me as a complete idiot lol and I must admit
my knowledge of VPO and jorgan is limited thus why I reached out to the
jorgan community for help and advice. While my knowledge is very limited I
do have the ability to understand. I currently have an 8 channel
MIDI/AUDIO interface connected between my audio system and computer and
using Hauptwerk Basic Edition and playing thru 2 channels of my system as
according to Hauptwerk I will need there advanced version to utilize all 8
channels. I reached out for help in hopes that jorgan may enable me to
do so. I am an accomplished organist of 45 years and was blessed to have a
father whom was an official church organist at age 14 and played in church
every Sunday he lived up to 80 and played pipe organs all over the world.
That said my experience as a organist by far exceeds that of my computer
and software knowledge. When I opened your email and saw three short
questions WHAT? MIDI? AUDIO? before I was able to read further I knew I
had ask a dumb question lol and felt you were unable to understand a
complete idiot but continued to read further thinking there must be some
answers and a load of information in the very detailed reply. That said it
is no question you have quite a bit of expertize in VPO/Computer technology
and were able to understand exactly what I was hoping to accomplish. As an
experienced organist I often have questions from young students, or
experienced pianist new to the organ reaching out for help and advice and
the questions they ask, like myself with you, clearly show they need help
and like you do all I can to help and share my God given talents. I used
jorgan back in 2011 for about a year and really liked it and it appealed to
me in that it was no cost and could learn before investing a fortune
with the joran forum for help. I found my lack of knowledge didn't fit in
with the community and went with hauptwerk. I was so impressed with jorgan
and have heard some really great set ups and thought I would reach out
again. I think with my limited knowledge with the more advanced VPO's set
up I will go with a sound engine. All built in to one unit, no midi/audio
interface needed, no external computer and no touch screen monitors. Being
I have a 3 manual draw knob organ "fully" midi enabled from the factory
with a very elaborate audio system it seems best to not have all the
external gadgets of a hobbyist set up. I do however; want to thank you for
taking the time and sharing a load of experienced information. Kind
regards

William Blalock

2017-06-28 17:43:02 UTC

Permalink

Post by Howard Ashley
William B.,
I feel your pain (and frustration). I am in much the same boat.
I am a long time organist and have spent the last 25 years working on
advancing my organ technique and the administrative duties that go along
with being a Director of Music. I do, however, have many years as a
Computer Repair Technician, which doesn't necessarily make figuring out a
VPO configuration any easier, but it does take out a lot of the
intimidation factor! I feel that you are misguided in your belief that
going to a hardware Sound Engine will eliminate any need to understand (or
need for) MIDI or Computers or Touch Screens, etc. I mean... how is your
Sound Engine supposed to communicate with your organ console? MIDI of
course, and you'd better be able to at least understand how MIDI assigns
channels to organ divisions at a minimum. If I had a 3 manual drawknob
organ fully MIDI'ed with a very elaborate audio system you had best believe
I would be *playing* that beast, daily, instead of mucking around with VPO
hardware and software! I don't care how 'bad' it sounds, it really can't
sound that bad and be so substantial in its hardware offerings. Bottom
line, I suspect that if you can get a hardware Sound Engine running with
your organ console, you can also get J'Organ running, the demands on you
are very similar in either case. FWIW.
On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:09 AM, William Blalock <

Post by Lynn Walls
Does jOrgan have multi channel WHAT? multi channel MIDI? or multi channel AUDIO?
jOrgan itself supports an unlimited number of MIDI output channels.
Your ability to actually utilize any number of MIDI channels is limited
only by your computer's complement of suitable MIDI devices. For each such
MIDI device (hard port or virtual port) defined on your computer jOrgan
would support 16 MIDI channels.
jOrgan does NOT support AUDIO channels at all! jOrgan's ONLY output is
one or more MIDI message data streams. Producing audio using jOrgan
requires the presence of an internal or external MIDI-controlled sound
renderer (sound source, sound engine, etc.).
Examples of suitable SOFTWARE sound rendering apps include Fluidsynth,
SFZ, GigaSampler (obsolete), Grand Orgue, Hauptwerk, and many others.
Examples of suitable HARDWARE (external) sound renderers include any
number of MIDI controlled synthesizers made by Roland/Edirol, Korg, and
many others.
Fluidsynth is a suitable totally software based sound renderer that is
presently directly loadable by jOrgan. Each instance of a Fluidsynth Sound
Source element configured within your jOrgan disposition can only provide a
single stereo (2-channel) output stream. But you can configure any number
of Fluidsynth Sound Source elements within your jOrgan disposition, limited
only by the number of actual AUDIO devices available/configured on your
computer.
jOrgan is able to use more than 16 MIDI channels with each instance of
an internal Fluidsynth Sound Source element. It passes jOrgan's MIDI
message data directly to the Fluidsynth app internally, and does NOT
require the presence of any actual (real or virtual) MIDI devices
defined/configured on your computer.
But jOrgan can only use 16 MIDI channels with each external (real or
virtual) MIDI device configured on your computer.
CLW
-------------------------------------------------

Lynn Walls

2017-06-28 18:14:17 UTC

Permalink

William,

Unfortunately, there is no simple "turn-key" solution for the minimally computer literate
organist who wants a superb organ sound for minimal cost.

The truly "no-computer-brain" solution is the horrendously expensive purchase of a
just-plug-it-in commercial organ from a real organ manufacturer (or less expensively,
second hand).

If you are willing to wade in and acquire a moderate level of computer and MIDI
understanding, the Artisan organ-in-a-box solution that you have researched should give
you a reasonably true organ sound. But the audio setup to do it justice won't be cheap.

If you want a top-of-the-line computer based software solution, Hauptwerk is the way to
go. It is a little expensive -- but not as costly as the Artisan or a commercial organ.
And it will require a limited understanding of computers and MIDI. The most difficult
aspect of Hauptwerk (or Artisan) is the acquisition and configuration of an audio system
(power amplifiers, speakers, and miscellaneous accessories) that will do justice to the
software generated sound of Hauptwerk, Artisan, Grand Orgue, Fluidsynth, or whatever sound
engine you select. In fact, the audio hardware may end up being your MOST EXPENSIVE
collection of components.

If you are ready to really get down and dirty with computers and MIDI, jOrgan is an
opportunity -- NOT a solution. There are many organ hobbyists who have built very nice
virtual organs using jOrgan, Fluidsynth, and soundfont based sample sets. Some of them
are freely available from some of the members of this forum/list. But you had better have
a good understanding of MIDI and jOrgan disposition building and maintenance basics in
order to use them without tearing out your hair!

Good luck!
CLW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you both for the information and I will most definitely consider your advice as I
prefer not to spend a lot of money if I can accomplish this with less with a little help.
As for the sound engine it is built by Artisan Organs in Washington State. The sound
engine is built on Linux and has pipe sampling by Wicks Pipe Organ witch Wicks uses for
there hybrid organs as well as there full digital organs. My understanding is Artisan gets
these from Wicks. All you would have with computer, software, interface and sampling in
one small unit. You buy the unit and select from a list the digital ranks of
your preference classical or theater, They install and configure everything. You place
inside the console and connect your midi and audio and ready. You can go to
artisanorgans.com <http://artisanorgans.com> or artisan or google artisan digital ranks
and see and here. I only wish I could find this in use on youtube or a forum with someone
with knowledge of it. The sales rep for North Carolina where I live has one set up about a
two hour drive from where I live but have not had the time to go see it. I will have to do
so and talk to some who have before I buy but am very impressed with it thus far. All that
said being I have a suitable computer relatively fast and a good 8 channel interface it
would be nice to use what I have and spend no more or perhaps a lot less and be done. The
Artisan Engine would be between $2500.00 and 3000.00. Todays digital sampling has come a
long way from early 90's and could put my Organ to the equivalent of a high end organ of
today with what I have. If I can find the help to do this with what I have and spend
little or none it was my hope. You can see my Organ on google plus in the vpo section
William K. Blalock. It shows it connected to a 2 channel MIDI/AUDIO interface by presonas
but I have an 8 channel when I can connect to 8 channels. Again thank you all for replying
and any help and advice you can give. Kind regards, Keith
William B.,
I feel your pain (and frustration). I am in much the same boat. I am a
long time organist and have spent the last 25 years working on advancing my organ
technique and the administrative duties that go along with being a Director of Music.
I do, however, have many years as a Computer Repair Technician, which doesn't
necessarily make figuring out a VPO configuration any easier, but it does take out a
lot of the intimidation factor! I feel that you are misguided in your belief that
going to a hardware Sound Engine will eliminate any need to understand (or need for)
MIDI or Computers or Touch Screens, etc. I mean... how is your Sound Engine supposed
to communicate with your organ console? MIDI of course, and you'd better be able to at
least understand how MIDI assigns channels to organ divisions at a minimum. If I had a
3 manual drawknob organ fully MIDI'ed with a very elaborate audio system you had best
believe I would be *playing* that beast, daily, instead of mucking around with VPO
hardware and software! I don't care how 'bad' it sounds, it really can't sound that
bad and be so substantial in its hardware offerings. Bottom line, I suspect that if
you can get a hardware Sound Engine running with your organ console, you can also get
J'Organ running, the demands on you are very similar in either case. FWIW.
Good morning Lynn
I wish to thank you for your quick reply to may question. It is quite clear that
you clearly see me as a complete idiot lol and I must admit my knowledge of VPO
and jorgan is limited thus why I reached out to the jorgan community for help and
advice. While my knowledge is very limited I do have the ability to understand. I
currently have an 8 channel MIDI/AUDIO interface connected between my audio system
and computer and using Hauptwerk Basic Edition and playing thru 2 channels of my
system as according to Hauptwerk I will need there advanced version to utilize all
8 channels. I reached out for help in hopes that jorgan may enable me to do so. I
am an accomplished organist of 45 years and was blessed to have a father whom was
an official church organist at age 14 and played in church every Sunday he lived
up to 80 and played pipe organs all over the world. That said my experience as a
organist by far exceeds that of my computer and software knowledge. When I opened
your email and saw three short questions WHAT? MIDI? AUDIO? before I was able to
read further I knew I had ask a dumb question lol and felt you were unable to
understand a complete idiot but continued to read further thinking there must be
some answers and a load of information in the very detailed reply. That said it is
no question you have quite a bit of expertize in VPO/Computer technology and were
able to understand exactly what I was hoping to accomplish. As an experienced
organist I often have questions from young students, or experienced pianist new to
the organ reaching out for help and advice and the questions they ask, like myself
with you, clearly show they need help and like you do all I can to help and share
my God given talents. I used jorgan back in 2011 for about a year and really liked
it and it appealed to me in that it was no cost and could learn before investing a
fortune with the joran forum for help. I found my lack of knowledge didn't fit in
with the community and went with hauptwerk. I was so impressed with jorgan and
have heard some really great set ups and thought I would reach out again. I think
with my limited knowledge with the more advanced VPO's set up I will go with a
sound engine. All built in to one unit, no midi/audio interface needed, no
external computer and no touch screen monitors. Being I have a 3 manual draw knob
organ "fully" midi enabled from the factory with a very elaborate audio system
it seems best to not have all the external gadgets of a hobbyist set up. I do
however; want to thank you for taking the time and sharing a load of
experienced information. Kind regards
Does jOrgan have multi channel WHAT? multi channel MIDI? or multi channel AUDIO?
jOrgan itself supports an unlimited number of MIDI output channels. Your
ability to actually utilize any number of MIDI channels is limited only by
your computer's complement of suitable MIDI devices. For each such MIDI
device (hard port or virtual port) defined on your computer jOrgan would
support 16 MIDI channels.
jOrgan does NOT support AUDIO channels at all! jOrgan's ONLY output is one or
more MIDI message data streams. Producing audio using jOrgan requires the
presence of an internal or external MIDI-controlled sound renderer (sound
source, sound engine, etc.).
Examples of suitable SOFTWARE sound rendering apps include Fluidsynth, SFZ,
GigaSampler (obsolete), Grand Orgue, Hauptwerk, and many others.
Examples of suitable HARDWARE (external) sound renderers include any number of
MIDI controlled synthesizers made by Roland/Edirol, Korg, and many others.
Fluidsynth is a suitable totally software based sound renderer that is
presently directly loadable by jOrgan. Each instance of a Fluidsynth Sound
Source element configured within your jOrgan disposition can only provide a
single stereo (2-channel) output stream. But you can configure any number of
Fluidsynth Sound Source elements within your jOrgan disposition, limited only
by the number of actual AUDIO devices available/configured on your computer.
jOrgan is able to use more than 16 MIDI channels with each instance of an
internal Fluidsynth Sound Source element. It passes jOrgan's MIDI message
data directly to the Fluidsynth app internally, and does NOT require the
presence of any actual (real or virtual) MIDI devices defined/configured on
your computer.
But jOrgan can only use 16 MIDI channels with each external (real or virtual)
MIDI device configured on your computer.
CLW
-------------------------------------------------
Hello to all
Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I have an 8 channel
audio system I am using with hauptwerk basic at this time but it only has 2
channel audio in the basic edition so I am not getting the full advantage
of my system. I used jorgan a few years ago but had a much smaller system
at the time. I don't want to spend money to get the advanced addition of
HW in that I think I like jorgan and grandorgue better and no cost. I do
however want to enjoy the advantage of my audio.
My question is does jorgan
have multi channel?
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Howard Ashley

2017-06-28 19:31:30 UTC

Permalink

William,
I have pretty extensive knowledge of the Artisan Sound Engine,
and also with the individual you alluded to, who now resides in North
Carolina. The main advantage of the Artisan, or any other Sound Engine, is
the ability to obtain 32' stops or extensions, for a reasonable price. IMO
the 8' and 4' stops and upperwork offered by Artisan are NOT superior to
those found in a modern or late model mainline digital. However, if one
truly wanted to expand the horizons of a digital such as yours, I would
find a way to foldback the audio output of the Sound Engine soundcard to
appropriate input points of the digital organs internal amplifiers and from
there to its speaker complement. It would be, as Lynn says, pretty
expensive to kit up an 8 channel audio system that would do a sound engine
justice! I understand that it is a tempting prospect, but technology really
does not offer a free lunch. If you want the audio realism of a 21st
Century digital or pipe organ you have to spend 10's of thousands of
dollars buying that digital, or buying the equivalent in VPO hardware,
software and audio hardware. I suspect it is ambience that you are missing
from your present digital. The Artisan Sound engine has no provisions for
ambience at all! It will sound WORSE than your digital because I suspect
(hope) your digital has at least some rudimentary kind of reverberation
hardware built in. If it were me I would try to find a recent decent
quality convolution reverb and insert it into the audio chain of your
digital console and call it very, very good. I know this is the J'Organ
forum and I am advising you to simply avoid VPO software but I'll say it
again: if the digital that I bought from the church in AZ had worked
properly and not died completely soon after I bought it,, I would have used
it as it was, late 80's sound notwithstanding. In the brief time I heard
it, I was impressed with the performance of the onboard reverberation. It
also had a 32' stop as OEM. I could have worked with that configuration for
many years. When I needed more I could satisfy that by finding a real organ
to play. You can get a new digital reverb from Lexicon for around $200 for
stereo and $300 for four channel. Even (especially) if you go with the
Artisan option you will need the reverberation unless such is present as
part of your consoles audio. And is of good enough performance. I tend to
doubt that since most of these big digitals were expected to be used in
churches with fairly decent acoustics as part of their architecture.

Post by John Reimer
William,
Unfortunately, there is no simple "turn-key" solution for the minimally
computer literate organist who wants a superb organ sound for minimal cost.
The truly "no-computer-brain" solution is the horrendously expensive
purchase of a just-plug-it-in commercial organ from a real organ
manufacturer (or less expensively, second hand).
If you are willing to wade in and acquire a moderate level of computer and
MIDI understanding, the Artisan organ-in-a-box solution that you have
researched should give you a reasonably true organ sound. But the audio
setup to do it justice won't be cheap.
If you want a top-of-the-line computer based software solution, Hauptwerk
is the way to go. It is a little expensive -- but not as costly as the
Artisan or a commercial organ. And it will require a limited understanding
of computers and MIDI. The most difficult aspect of Hauptwerk (or Artisan)
is the acquisition and configuration of an audio system (power amplifiers,
speakers, and miscellaneous accessories) that will do justice to the
software generated sound of Hauptwerk, Artisan, Grand Orgue, Fluidsynth, or
whatever sound engine you select. In fact, the audio hardware may end up
being your MOST EXPENSIVE collection of components.
If you are ready to really get down and dirty with computers and MIDI,
jOrgan is an opportunity -- NOT a solution. There are many organ hobbyists
who have built very nice virtual organs using jOrgan, Fluidsynth, and
soundfont based sample sets. Some of them are freely available from some
of the members of this forum/list. But you had better have a good
understanding of MIDI and jOrgan disposition building and maintenance
basics in order to use them without tearing out your hair!
Good luck!
CLW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by William Blalock
Thank you both for the information and I will most definitely consider
your advice as I prefer not to spend a lot of money if I can accomplish
this with less with a little help. As for the sound engine it is built by
Artisan Organs in Washington State. The sound engine is built on Linux and
has pipe sampling by Wicks Pipe Organ witch Wicks uses for there hybrid
organs as well as there full digital organs. My understanding is Artisan
gets these from Wicks. All you would have with computer, software,
interface and sampling in one small unit. You buy the unit and select from
a list the digital ranks of your preference classical or theater, They
install and configure everything. You place inside the console and connect
your midi and audio and ready. You can go to artisanorgans.com <
http://artisanorgans.com> or artisan or google artisan digital ranks and
see and here. I only wish I could find this in use on youtube or a forum
with someone with knowledge of it. The sales rep for North Carolina where I
live has one set up about a two hour drive from where I live but have not
had the time to go see it. I will have to do so and talk to some who have
before I buy but am very impressed with it thus far. All that said being I
have a suitable computer relatively fast and a good 8 channel interface it
would be nice to use what I have and spend no more or perhaps a lot less
and be done. The Artisan Engine would be between $2500.00 and 3000.00.
Todays digital sampling has come a long way from early 90's and could put
my Organ to the equivalent of a high end organ of today with what I have.
If I can find the help to do this with what I have and spend little or none
it was my hope. You can see my Organ on google plus in the vpo section
William K. Blalock. It shows it connected to a 2 channel MIDI/AUDIO
interface by presonas but I have an 8 channel when I can connect to 8
channels. Again thank you all for replying and any help and advice you can
give. Kind regards, Keith
On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Howard Ashley <
William B.,
I feel your pain (and frustration). I am in much the same boat. I am a
long time organist and have spent the last 25 years working on advancing my organ
technique and the administrative duties that go along with being a Director of Music.
I do, however, have many years as a Computer Repair Technician, which doesn't
necessarily make figuring out a VPO configuration any easier, but it does take out a
lot of the intimidation factor! I feel that you are misguided in your belief that
going to a hardware Sound Engine will eliminate any need to
understand (or need for) MIDI or Computers or Touch Screens, etc. I
mean... how is your Sound Engine supposed
to communicate with your organ console? MIDI of course, and you'd
better be able to at
least understand how MIDI assigns channels to organ divisions at a
minimum. If I had a
3 manual drawknob organ fully MIDI'ed with a very elaborate audio system you had best
believe I would be *playing* that beast, daily, instead of mucking around with VPO
hardware and software! I don't care how 'bad' it sounds, it really can't sound that
bad and be so substantial in its hardware offerings. Bottom line, I suspect that if
you can get a hardware Sound Engine running with your organ console, you can also get
J'Organ running, the demands on you are very similar in either case. FWIW.
On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:09 AM, William Blalock <
Good morning Lynn
I wish to thank you for your quick reply to may question. It is quite clear that
you clearly see me as a complete idiot lol and I must admit my knowledge of VPO
and jorgan is limited thus why I reached out to the jorgan community for help and
advice. While my knowledge is very limited I do have the ability
to understand. I
currently have an 8 channel MIDI/AUDIO interface connected
between my audio system
and computer and using Hauptwerk Basic Edition and playing thru 2 channels of my
system as according to Hauptwerk I will need there advanced
version to utilize all
8 channels. I reached out for help in hopes that jorgan may enable me to do so. I
am an accomplished organist of 45 years and was blessed to have a father whom was
an official church organist at age 14 and played in church every Sunday he lived
up to 80 and played pipe organs all over the world. That said my experience as a
organist by far exceeds that of my computer and software
knowledge. When I opened
your email and saw three short questions WHAT? MIDI? AUDIO? before I was able to
read further I knew I had ask a dumb question lol and felt you were unable to
understand a complete idiot but continued to read further thinking there must be
some answers and a load of information in the very detailed
reply. That said it is
no question you have quite a bit of expertize in VPO/Computer technology and were
able to understand exactly what I was hoping to accomplish. As an experienced
organist I often have questions from young students, or
experienced pianist new to
the organ reaching out for help and advice and the questions they
ask, like myself
with you, clearly show they need help and like you do all I can to help and share
my God given talents. I used jorgan back in 2011 for about a year
and really liked
it and it appealed to me in that it was no cost and could learn
before investing a
fortune with the joran forum for help. I found my lack of knowledge didn't fit in
with the community and went with hauptwerk. I was so impressed with jorgan and
have heard some really great set ups and thought I would reach out again. I think
with my limited knowledge with the more advanced VPO's set up I will go with a
sound engine. All built in to one unit, no midi/audio interface needed, no
external computer and no touch screen monitors. Being I have a 3 manual draw knob
organ "fully" midi enabled from the factory with a very elaborate audio system
it seems best to not have all the external gadgets of a hobbyist set up. I do
however; want to thank you for taking the time and sharing a load of
experienced information. Kind regards
Does jOrgan have multi channel WHAT? multi channel MIDI? or
multi channel AUDIO?
jOrgan itself supports an unlimited number of MIDI output channels. Your
ability to actually utilize any number of MIDI channels is limited only by
your computer's complement of suitable MIDI devices. For each such MIDI
device (hard port or virtual port) defined on your computer jOrgan would
support 16 MIDI channels.
jOrgan does NOT support AUDIO channels at all! jOrgan's ONLY
output is one or
more MIDI message data streams. Producing audio using jOrgan requires the
presence of an internal or external MIDI-controlled sound renderer (sound
source, sound engine, etc.).
Examples of suitable SOFTWARE sound rendering apps include Fluidsynth, SFZ,
GigaSampler (obsolete), Grand Orgue, Hauptwerk, and many others.
Examples of suitable HARDWARE (external) sound renderers
include any number of
MIDI controlled synthesizers made by Roland/Edirol, Korg, and many others.
Fluidsynth is a suitable totally software based sound renderer that is
presently directly loadable by jOrgan. Each instance of a Fluidsynth Sound
Source element configured within your jOrgan disposition can only provide a
single stereo (2-channel) output stream. But you can configure any number of
Fluidsynth Sound Source elements within your jOrgan disposition, limited only
by the number of actual AUDIO devices available/configured on your computer.
jOrgan is able to use more than 16 MIDI channels with each instance of an
internal Fluidsynth Sound Source element. It passes jOrgan's MIDI message
data directly to the Fluidsynth app internally, and does NOT require the
presence of any actual (real or virtual) MIDI devices defined/configured on
your computer.
But jOrgan can only use 16 MIDI channels with each external (real or virtual)
MIDI device configured on your computer.
CLW
-------------------------------------------------
Hello to all
Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I have an 8 channel
audio system I am using with hauptwerk basic at this time
but it only has 2
channel audio in the basic edition so I am not getting the full advantage
of my system. I used jorgan a few years ago but had a much smaller system
at the time. I don't want to spend money to get the advanced addition of
HW in that I think I like jorgan and grandorgue better and no cost. I do
however want to enjoy the advantage of my audio.
My question is does jorgan
have multi channel?
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user>
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
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ceforge.net>
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<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user>
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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ceforge.net>
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<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user>
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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William Blalock

2017-06-28 20:34:10 UTC

Permalink

My organ has no internal amp/speakers. I have 2 X 650 watt amps and 8 X 3
way htc15 speakers. This organ came from factory with this external audio.
the configuration was when I had all connected to my organ without
computer/hauptwerk was 1 amp and 4 speaker left and 1 amp 4 speakers on
right. This is a digital organ but not digital pipe sampling as in VPO and
does not have reverb. I feel that the reason it has no reverb as an organ
of this size was built for a large church that would not need reverb having
the acoustics to accommodate it. I have considered and feel that adding
reverb to my original set up would sound much better but I know It would
not fully satisfy my desire for a true pipe sound. I feel this organ having
full midi and this audio system I am most of the way to having a great
sounding organ if I can find the best way to go. I don't want to spend more
than necessary to accomplish this but don't mind spending what it takes to
do it right. Bottom line is I am looking the most cost effective way to
take this organ to the top. I will say I am not sold on the artisan as I
mention earlier in our conversation I have not found anyone with one or any
reviews. my goal is to get help with the best way to go about this and
should it be Hauptwerk or jorgan I most definitely will need some help and
certainly be a lot learn on my part to witch will depend very much on the
generosity of others. I did find a hauptwerk consultant willing to do this
connecting remotely to my computer for what I would consider to be a very
reasonable price and have not ruled this option out either. Again I
do appreciate all of you for taking the time to share your knowledge and
advice and I am sure it will put me in the right direction

Post by John Reimer
William,
I have pretty extensive knowledge of the Artisan Sound Engine,
and also with the individual you alluded to, who now resides in North
Carolina. The main advantage of the Artisan, or any other Sound Engine, is
the ability to obtain 32' stops or extensions, for a reasonable price. IMO
the 8' and 4' stops and upperwork offered by Artisan are NOT superior to
those found in a modern or late model mainline digital. However, if one
truly wanted to expand the horizons of a digital such as yours, I would
find a way to foldback the audio output of the Sound Engine soundcard to
appropriate input points of the digital organs internal amplifiers and from
there to its speaker complement. It would be, as Lynn says, pretty
expensive to kit up an 8 channel audio system that would do a sound engine
justice! I understand that it is a tempting prospect, but technology really
does not offer a free lunch. If you want the audio realism of a 21st
Century digital or pipe organ you have to spend 10's of thousands of
dollars buying that digital, or buying the equivalent in VPO hardware,
software and audio hardware. I suspect it is ambience that you are missing
from your present digital. The Artisan Sound engine has no provisions for
ambience at all! It will sound WORSE than your digital because I suspect
(hope) your digital has at least some rudimentary kind of reverberation
hardware built in. If it were me I would try to find a recent decent
quality convolution reverb and insert it into the audio chain of your
digital console and call it very, very good. I know this is the J'Organ
forum and I am advising you to simply avoid VPO software but I'll say it
again: if the digital that I bought from the church in AZ had worked
properly and not died completely soon after I bought it,, I would have used
it as it was, late 80's sound notwithstanding. In the brief time I heard
it, I was impressed with the performance of the onboard reverberation. It
also had a 32' stop as OEM. I could have worked with that configuration for
many years. When I needed more I could satisfy that by finding a real organ
to play. You can get a new digital reverb from Lexicon for around $200 for
stereo and $300 for four channel. Even (especially) if you go with the
Artisan option you will need the reverberation unless such is present as
part of your consoles audio. And is of good enough performance. I tend to
doubt that since most of these big digitals were expected to be used in
churches with fairly decent acoustics as part of their architecture.

Post by John Reimer
William,
Unfortunately, there is no simple "turn-key" solution for the minimally
computer literate organist who wants a superb organ sound for minimal cost.
The truly "no-computer-brain" solution is the horrendously expensive
purchase of a just-plug-it-in commercial organ from a real organ
manufacturer (or less expensively, second hand).
If you are willing to wade in and acquire a moderate level of computer
and MIDI understanding, the Artisan organ-in-a-box solution that you have
researched should give you a reasonably true organ sound. But the audio
setup to do it justice won't be cheap.
If you want a top-of-the-line computer based software solution, Hauptwerk
is the way to go. It is a little expensive -- but not as costly as the
Artisan or a commercial organ. And it will require a limited understanding
of computers and MIDI. The most difficult aspect of Hauptwerk (or Artisan)
is the acquisition and configuration of an audio system (power amplifiers,
speakers, and miscellaneous accessories) that will do justice to the
software generated sound of Hauptwerk, Artisan, Grand Orgue, Fluidsynth, or
whatever sound engine you select. In fact, the audio hardware may end up
being your MOST EXPENSIVE collection of components.
If you are ready to really get down and dirty with computers and MIDI,
jOrgan is an opportunity -- NOT a solution. There are many organ hobbyists
who have built very nice virtual organs using jOrgan, Fluidsynth, and
soundfont based sample sets. Some of them are freely available from some
of the members of this forum/list. But you had better have a good
understanding of MIDI and jOrgan disposition building and maintenance
basics in order to use them without tearing out your hair!
Good luck!
CLW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by William Blalock
Thank you both for the information and I will most definitely consider
your advice as I prefer not to spend a lot of money if I can accomplish
this with less with a little help. As for the sound engine it is built by
Artisan Organs in Washington State. The sound engine is built on Linux and
has pipe sampling by Wicks Pipe Organ witch Wicks uses for there hybrid
organs as well as there full digital organs. My understanding is Artisan
gets these from Wicks. All you would have with computer, software,
interface and sampling in one small unit. You buy the unit and select from
a list the digital ranks of your preference classical or theater, They
install and configure everything. You place inside the console and connect
your midi and audio and ready. You can go to artisanorgans.com <
http://artisanorgans.com> or artisan or google artisan digital ranks
and see and here. I only wish I could find this in use on youtube or a
forum with someone with knowledge of it. The sales rep for North Carolina
where I live has one set up about a two hour drive from where I live but
have not had the time to go see it. I will have to do so and talk to some
who have before I buy but am very impressed with it thus far. All that said
being I have a suitable computer relatively fast and a good 8 channel
interface it would be nice to use what I have and spend no more or perhaps
a lot less and be done. The Artisan Engine would be between $2500.00 and
3000.00. Todays digital sampling has come a long way from early 90's and
could put my Organ to the equivalent of a high end organ of today with what
I have. If I can find the help to do this with what I have and spend little
or none it was my hope. You can see my Organ on google plus in the vpo
section William K. Blalock. It shows it connected to a 2 channel MIDI/AUDIO
interface by presonas but I have an 8 channel when I can connect to 8
channels. Again thank you all for replying and any help and advice you can
give. Kind regards, Keith
On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Howard Ashley <
William B.,
I feel your pain (and frustration). I am in much the same boat. I am a
long time organist and have spent the last 25 years working on advancing my organ
technique and the administrative duties that go along with being a
Director of Music.
I do, however, have many years as a Computer Repair Technician, which doesn't
necessarily make figuring out a VPO configuration any easier, but it
does take out a
lot of the intimidation factor! I feel that you are misguided in your belief that
going to a hardware Sound Engine will eliminate any need to
understand (or need for) MIDI or Computers or Touch Screens, etc. I
mean... how is your Sound Engine supposed
to communicate with your organ console? MIDI of course, and you'd
better be able to at
least understand how MIDI assigns channels to organ divisions at a
minimum. If I had a
3 manual drawknob organ fully MIDI'ed with a very elaborate audio
system you had best
believe I would be *playing* that beast, daily, instead of mucking around with VPO
hardware and software! I don't care how 'bad' it sounds, it really can't sound that
bad and be so substantial in its hardware offerings. Bottom line, I suspect that if
you can get a hardware Sound Engine running with your organ console,
you can also get
J'Organ running, the demands on you are very similar in either case. FWIW.
On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:09 AM, William Blalock <
Good morning Lynn
I wish to thank you for your quick reply to may question. It is
quite clear that
you clearly see me as a complete idiot lol and I must admit my knowledge of VPO
and jorgan is limited thus why I reached out to the jorgan
community for help and
advice. While my knowledge is very limited I do have the ability
to understand. I
currently have an 8 channel MIDI/AUDIO interface connected
between my audio system
and computer and using Hauptwerk Basic Edition and playing thru
2 channels of my
system as according to Hauptwerk I will need there advanced
version to utilize all
8 channels. I reached out for help in hopes that jorgan may
enable me to do so. I
am an accomplished organist of 45 years and was blessed to have
a father whom was
an official church organist at age 14 and played in church every
Sunday he lived
up to 80 and played pipe organs all over the world. That said my
experience as a
organist by far exceeds that of my computer and software
knowledge. When I opened
your email and saw three short questions WHAT? MIDI? AUDIO?
before I was able to
read further I knew I had ask a dumb question lol and felt you were unable to
understand a complete idiot but continued to read further
thinking there must be
some answers and a load of information in the very detailed
reply. That said it is
no question you have quite a bit of expertize in VPO/Computer
technology and were
able to understand exactly what I was hoping to accomplish. As an experienced
organist I often have questions from young students, or
experienced pianist new to
the organ reaching out for help and advice and the questions
they ask, like myself
with you, clearly show they need help and like you do all I can
to help and share
my God given talents. I used jorgan back in 2011 for about a
year and really liked
it and it appealed to me in that it was no cost and could learn
before investing a
fortune with the joran forum for help. I found my lack of
knowledge didn't fit in
with the community and went with hauptwerk. I was so impressed with jorgan and
have heard some really great set ups and thought I would reach
out again. I think
with my limited knowledge with the more advanced VPO's set up I will go with a
sound engine. All built in to one unit, no midi/audio interface needed, no
external computer and no touch screen monitors. Being I have a 3
manual draw knob
organ "fully" midi enabled from the factory with a very elaborate audio system
it seems best to not have all the external gadgets of a hobbyist set up. I do
however; want to thank you for taking the time and sharing a load of
experienced information. Kind regards
Does jOrgan have multi channel WHAT? multi channel MIDI? or
multi channel AUDIO?
jOrgan itself supports an unlimited number of MIDI output channels. Your
ability to actually utilize any number of MIDI channels is limited only by
your computer's complement of suitable MIDI devices. For each such MIDI
device (hard port or virtual port) defined on your computer jOrgan would
support 16 MIDI channels.
jOrgan does NOT support AUDIO channels at all! jOrgan's
ONLY output is one or
more MIDI message data streams. Producing audio using jOrgan requires the
presence of an internal or external MIDI-controlled sound renderer (sound
source, sound engine, etc.).
Examples of suitable SOFTWARE sound rendering apps include Fluidsynth, SFZ,
GigaSampler (obsolete), Grand Orgue, Hauptwerk, and many others.
Examples of suitable HARDWARE (external) sound renderers
include any number of
MIDI controlled synthesizers made by Roland/Edirol, Korg, and many others.
Fluidsynth is a suitable totally software based sound renderer that is
presently directly loadable by jOrgan. Each instance of a Fluidsynth Sound
Source element configured within your jOrgan disposition can only provide a
single stereo (2-channel) output stream. But you can
configure any number of
Fluidsynth Sound Source elements within your jOrgan
disposition, limited only
by the number of actual AUDIO devices available/configured
on your computer.
jOrgan is able to use more than 16 MIDI channels with each instance of an
internal Fluidsynth Sound Source element. It passes jOrgan's MIDI message
data directly to the Fluidsynth app internally, and does NOT require the
presence of any actual (real or virtual) MIDI devices defined/configured on
your computer.
But jOrgan can only use 16 MIDI channels with each external
(real or virtual)
MIDI device configured on your computer.
CLW
-------------------------------------------------
Hello to all
Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I
have an 8 channel
audio system I am using with hauptwerk basic at this
time but it only has 2
channel audio in the basic edition so I am not getting
the full advantage
of my system. I used jorgan a few years ago but had a
much smaller system
at the time. I don't want to spend money to get the
advanced addition of
HW in that I think I like jorgan and grandorgue better
and no cost. I do
however want to enjoy the advantage of my audio.
My question is does jorgan
have multi channel?
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<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user>
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Aaron Laws

2017-06-29 13:58:19 UTC

Permalink

Post by William Blalock
My organ has no internal amp/speakers. I have 2 X 650 watt amps and 8 X 3
way htc15 speakers. This organ came from factory with this external audio.
the configuration was when I had all connected to my organ without
computer/hauptwerk was 1 amp and 4 speaker left and 1 amp 4 speakers on
right. This is a digital organ but not digital pipe sampling as in VPO and
does not have reverb. I feel that the reason it has no reverb as an organ
of this size was built for a large church that would not need reverb having
the acoustics to accommodate it. I have considered and feel that adding
reverb to my original set up would sound much better but I know It would
not fully satisfy my desire for a true pipe sound. I feel this organ having
full midi and this audio system I am most of the way to having a great
sounding organ if I can find the best way to go. I don't want to spend more
than necessary to accomplish this but don't mind spending what it takes to
do it right. Bottom line is I am looking the most cost effective way to
take this organ to the top. I will say I am not sold on the artisan as I
mention earlier in our conversation I have not found anyone with one or any
reviews. my goal is to get help with the best way to go about this and
should it be Hauptwerk or jorgan I most definitely will need some help and
certainly be a lot learn on my part to witch will depend very much on the
generosity of others. I did find a hauptwerk consultant willing to do this
connecting remotely to my computer for what I would consider to be a very
reasonable price and have not ruled this option out either. Again I
do appreciate all of you for taking the time to share your knowledge and
advice and I am sure it will put me in the right direction

William,

It sounds like you will love what can be achieved with jOrgan. I take it
that your computer can provide eight analog channels of output, and you can
handle amplifying those signals and getting them to a loudspeakers? If so,
next you need to decide what sound you want to come out of those eight
channels. Pick a disposition you like and decide how you want to slice it
up. Perhaps great flutes, strings, and principals on one channel; great
reeds on another; swell flutes, strings, and principles on another; etc.?
(But you and others can surely come up with a better scheme.) Then, as Mr.
Reimer mentioned, you will nearly certainly be editing sound fonts, so get
a sound font editor that doesn't cost money (and perhaps one that is also
free software ;-) ) such as viena, vienna, polyphone, swami, etc., and
begin working to divide up the disposition to your liking. As you have
questions, feel free to post to this list (under specific subject headings
if you please).

One nice thing about this approach is that you can combine dispositions.
Though, it may be extra work to make sure the ranks speak coherently
(matching volume, etc.).

In Christ,
Aaron Laws

William Blalock

2017-06-29 15:09:01 UTC

Permalink

Thank you Aaron and thanks to all who have responded to my plead for help.
Anything outside of a basic set up/configuration of VPO to me is quite a
challenge. All of you have shared with me the many options I have. Howard
mentioned after learning more about my organ and the audio system suggested
I consider seeking options to bring out the best of it without VPO by
adding reverb. I strongly felt his advice was well worth looking in to. As
I mentioned earlier my organ was in a fairly large church with cathedral
ceilings, no carpet and speakers were 30 feet or so high likely to have had
great acoustics without the need of reverb. I was not able to hear the
organ while it was in the church but was told how the organ was set up
and sure it would have sounded much better. His suggesting I consider this
I looked in my technical manual and it appears I can have reverb without
the need of an added device with the use of a jumper cable. I have a phone
number of the technician that installed and serviced the organ whom I also
purchased the technical manual from about 8 months ago. I plan to contact
him in a few days when he returns from out of town trip to inquire how I
make this connection. While the organ sounds very nice on its own it
doesn't come very close to what adding VPO does but surely reverb will most
definitely bring it up a notch or two and well worth the try. While I am
currently using 8 channels and 8 speakers my system is expandable to 16
channel thus I can purchase additional speakers if I choose and consider
mixing my original internal voicing and adding VPO in order to expand and
depending on how good the added reverb effects my organ may even be able to
get by with a very basic VPO that I can grow with as I become more educated
with more technical aspects of VPO. I have my organ in a chapel in the
funeral home where I work that seats about 200 people so it is a fairly
large room in comparison to having it at home but it has low ceilings and
carpet but a better option to have it considering it size. With my current
occupation I am not able to have the time to serve as a church organist or
time to play others in the area for enjoyment thus is why I want to do as
much with my own as I can. Thanks to all of you. Keith

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 4:34 PM, William Blalock <

Post by William Blalock
My organ has no internal amp/speakers. I have 2 X 650 watt amps and 8 X
3 way htc15 speakers. This organ came from factory with this external
audio. the configuration was when I had all connected to my organ without
computer/hauptwerk was 1 amp and 4 speaker left and 1 amp 4 speakers on
right. This is a digital organ but not digital pipe sampling as in VPO and
does not have reverb. I feel that the reason it has no reverb as an organ
of this size was built for a large church that would not need reverb having
the acoustics to accommodate it. I have considered and feel that adding
reverb to my original set up would sound much better but I know It would
not fully satisfy my desire for a true pipe sound. I feel this organ having
full midi and this audio system I am most of the way to having a great
sounding organ if I can find the best way to go. I don't want to spend more
than necessary to accomplish this but don't mind spending what it takes to
do it right. Bottom line is I am looking the most cost effective way to
take this organ to the top. I will say I am not sold on the artisan as I
mention earlier in our conversation I have not found anyone with one or any
reviews. my goal is to get help with the best way to go about this and
should it be Hauptwerk or jorgan I most definitely will need some help and
certainly be a lot learn on my part to witch will depend very much on the
generosity of others. I did find a hauptwerk consultant willing to do this
connecting remotely to my computer for what I would consider to be a very
reasonable price and have not ruled this option out either. Again I
do appreciate all of you for taking the time to share your knowledge and
advice and I am sure it will put me in the right direction

William,
It sounds like you will love what can be achieved with jOrgan. I take it
that your computer can provide eight analog channels of output, and you can
handle amplifying those signals and getting them to a loudspeakers? If so,
next you need to decide what sound you want to come out of those eight
channels. Pick a disposition you like and decide how you want to slice it
up. Perhaps great flutes, strings, and principals on one channel; great
reeds on another; swell flutes, strings, and principles on another; etc.?
(But you and others can surely come up with a better scheme.) Then, as Mr.
Reimer mentioned, you will nearly certainly be editing sound fonts, so get
a sound font editor that doesn't cost money (and perhaps one that is also
free software ;-) ) such as viena, vienna, polyphone, swami, etc., and
begin working to divide up the disposition to your liking. As you have
questions, feel free to post to this list (under specific subject headings
if you please).
One nice thing about this approach is that you can combine dispositions.
Though, it may be extra work to make sure the ranks speak coherently
(matching volume, etc.).
In Christ,
Aaron Laws
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
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William Blalock

2017-06-29 16:18:52 UTC

Permalink

Reply to Lynn Walls,

Good morning Lynn and thank you for the information and advice. Please know
that my response is in no way intended to be arrogant or a lack of
appreciation of your expert advice and I have admitted I have a limited
knowledge of VPO but didn't exactly admit to be a "computer no brainer" but
am beginning to realize that I may very well be one the more I read
your response. Fortunately I am able to realize we all crawl before we walk
and all have had someone to give a helping hand, teach and mentor us.
Please correct me if I am wrong but as I mentioned before I was under the
impression that this forum was to share with those less knowledgeable of
jorgan. My guess is if everyone already new it all there would be no need
for this forum. I wish to sincerely commend you and all the developers of
jorgan for making the jorgan VPO available. I came to this forum making it
clear my lack of knowledge and experience knowing it would be a learning
curve and would take time. You mentioned there was no quick easy way to
what I wanted to do. I don't remember saying I was in any hurry to get
things done. You also mentioned that I would need to be prepared to speed a
lot on amps and speakers to obtain the level of results I seek. Again, no
disrespect or arrogance intended here and this may very well prove my
ignorance but it appears you failed to notice the external audio
system that came with my organ and may be appropriate but your opinion is
most important. My organ is equipped with (2) external amps each 650 watt
with 8 channels (each) and (8) HTC 15 speakers. I am currently utilizing 8
channels. 1 650 watt amp left with 4 HTC 15's and 1 650 watt amp right with
4 HTC 15's These are 3 way speakers. If I choose to expand this gives me 8
more channels. These speakers are plentiful at a very reasonable cost used
should I choose to expand to 16 channels witch I most likely will do in the
future or before if necessary. In your expert opinion do you feel this
audio system will be sufficient for my goal? I do realize I have a lot to
learn but I am in no hurry. Thank you Keith

Post by William Blalock
Thank you Aaron and thanks to all who have responded to my plead for help.
Anything outside of a basic set up/configuration of VPO to me is quite a
challenge. All of you have shared with me the many options I have. Howard
mentioned after learning more about my organ and the audio system suggested
I consider seeking options to bring out the best of it without VPO by
adding reverb. I strongly felt his advice was well worth looking in to. As
I mentioned earlier my organ was in a fairly large church with cathedral
ceilings, no carpet and speakers were 30 feet or so high likely to have had
great acoustics without the need of reverb. I was not able to hear the
organ while it was in the church but was told how the organ was set up
and sure it would have sounded much better. His suggesting I consider this
I looked in my technical manual and it appears I can have reverb without
the need of an added device with the use of a jumper cable. I have a phone
number of the technician that installed and serviced the organ whom I also
purchased the technical manual from about 8 months ago. I plan to contact
him in a few days when he returns from out of town trip to inquire how I
make this connection. While the organ sounds very nice on its own it
doesn't come very close to what adding VPO does but surely reverb will most
definitely bring it up a notch or two and well worth the try. While I am
currently using 8 channels and 8 speakers my system is expandable to 16
channel thus I can purchase additional speakers if I choose and consider
mixing my original internal voicing and adding VPO in order to expand and
depending on how good the added reverb effects my organ may even be able to
get by with a very basic VPO that I can grow with as I become more educated
with more technical aspects of VPO. I have my organ in a chapel in the
funeral home where I work that seats about 200 people so it is a fairly
large room in comparison to having it at home but it has low ceilings and
carpet but a better option to have it considering it size. With my current
occupation I am not able to have the time to serve as a church organist or
time to play others in the area for enjoyment thus is why I want to do as
much with my own as I can. Thanks to all of you. Keith

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 4:34 PM, William Blalock <

Post by William Blalock
My organ has no internal amp/speakers. I have 2 X 650 watt amps and 8 X
3 way htc15 speakers. This organ came from factory with this external
audio. the configuration was when I had all connected to my organ without
computer/hauptwerk was 1 amp and 4 speaker left and 1 amp 4 speakers on
right. This is a digital organ but not digital pipe sampling as in VPO and
does not have reverb. I feel that the reason it has no reverb as an organ
of this size was built for a large church that would not need reverb having
the acoustics to accommodate it. I have considered and feel that adding
reverb to my original set up would sound much better but I know It would
not fully satisfy my desire for a true pipe sound. I feel this organ having
full midi and this audio system I am most of the way to having a great
sounding organ if I can find the best way to go. I don't want to spend more
than necessary to accomplish this but don't mind spending what it takes to
do it right. Bottom line is I am looking the most cost effective way to
take this organ to the top. I will say I am not sold on the artisan as I
mention earlier in our conversation I have not found anyone with one or any
reviews. my goal is to get help with the best way to go about this and
should it be Hauptwerk or jorgan I most definitely will need some help and
certainly be a lot learn on my part to witch will depend very much on the
generosity of others. I did find a hauptwerk consultant willing to do this
connecting remotely to my computer for what I would consider to be a very
reasonable price and have not ruled this option out either. Again I
do appreciate all of you for taking the time to share your knowledge and
advice and I am sure it will put me in the right direction

William,
It sounds like you will love what can be achieved with jOrgan. I take it
that your computer can provide eight analog channels of output, and you can
handle amplifying those signals and getting them to a loudspeakers? If so,
next you need to decide what sound you want to come out of those eight
channels. Pick a disposition you like and decide how you want to slice it
up. Perhaps great flutes, strings, and principals on one channel; great
reeds on another; swell flutes, strings, and principles on another; etc.?
(But you and others can surely come up with a better scheme.) Then, as Mr.
Reimer mentioned, you will nearly certainly be editing sound fonts, so get
a sound font editor that doesn't cost money (and perhaps one that is also
free software ;-) ) such as viena, vienna, polyphone, swami, etc., and
begin working to divide up the disposition to your liking. As you have
questions, feel free to post to this list (under specific subject headings
if you please).
One nice thing about this approach is that you can combine dispositions.
Though, it may be extra work to make sure the ranks speak coherently
(matching volume, etc.).
In Christ,
Aaron Laws
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Howard Ashley

2017-06-29 16:36:26 UTC

Permalink

William (Keith),
No disrespect meant to your technician, but I have
never heard of such an arrangement for obtaining reverb! I still think you
need to consider the purchase of a dedicated digital convolution reverb
unit. The Yamaha DSP-1 was a highly respected reverb in its day, and these
days they are available used for ~$100. The "problem" with really current
reverbs is that they usually do so much more: delay, flanging, chorusing,
etc. You want reverb, just the reverb, thank you, Maam. That is hard to
find. As a trained organist you are used to having your entire stoplist
accessible via the console. If you go to a VPO you CAN control its stop
offerings via your console's drawknobs but not both simultaneously! Any
scheme to allow your drawknobs to both control native sounds and VPO
additions becomes 'non-standard'. You will of necessity have to consider a
touchscreen(s) to control the VPO voices. Then you will have to modify
(adapt) your technique to selecting voices in this non-standard way. Unless
I way miss my guess, you won't do it for long. Cheap (or free) soundfonts
will NOT sound better than a Hauptwerk sample set of a large English organ
with dry samples retailing for ~$1000 USD. You cannot significantly improve
on the quality your current organs voicing without spending thousands. You
can, however, improve immensely on its *sound* by a modest investment in a
hardware reverb unit inserted into the audio chain. It would be useful I
think to understand how your current instrument is using the channels
available to it. It is unusual for that time to use a pair of high wattage
amps for several channels of organ divisions or tone families. What kind of
amps are these? Car audio? Pro audio? To properly reverb the instrument you
may need to use a mixer, and since around the '90's most mixers with more
than 4 channels often have reverb (and other effects) built right in. The
more I think about it, that is likely to be the easiest and best solution.
To get something like a Behringer or Yamaha 8ch mixer with built in effects
(reverb). Sadly, the vast majority of mixers will only output in stereo (2
chan). A few will do 4 channels (4 bus). That should be enough, I think.
I'm thinking there has to be a 32' stop or two on that instrument, and thus
there should be a subwoofer somewhere in the audio scheme. Is there?
Attention to these details will be much more bang for the buck than any
amount of work with VPO technology will realize. IMO.

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 4:34 PM, William Blalock <

Post by William Blalock
My organ has no internal amp/speakers. I have 2 X 650 watt amps and 8 X
3 way htc15 speakers. This organ came from factory with this external
audio. the configuration was when I had all connected to my organ without
computer/hauptwerk was 1 amp and 4 speaker left and 1 amp 4 speakers on
right. This is a digital organ but not digital pipe sampling as in VPO and
does not have reverb. I feel that the reason it has no reverb as an organ
of this size was built for a large church that would not need reverb having
the acoustics to accommodate it. I have considered and feel that adding
reverb to my original set up would sound much better but I know It would
not fully satisfy my desire for a true pipe sound. I feel this organ having
full midi and this audio system I am most of the way to having a great
sounding organ if I can find the best way to go. I don't want to spend more
than necessary to accomplish this but don't mind spending what it takes to
do it right. Bottom line is I am looking the most cost effective way to
take this organ to the top. I will say I am not sold on the artisan as I
mention earlier in our conversation I have not found anyone with one or any
reviews. my goal is to get help with the best way to go about this and
should it be Hauptwerk or jorgan I most definitely will need some help and
certainly be a lot learn on my part to witch will depend very much on the
generosity of others. I did find a hauptwerk consultant willing to do this
connecting remotely to my computer for what I would consider to be a very
reasonable price and have not ruled this option out either. Again I
do appreciate all of you for taking the time to share your knowledge and
advice and I am sure it will put me in the right direction

William,
It sounds like you will love what can be achieved with jOrgan. I take it
that your computer can provide eight analog channels of output, and you can
handle amplifying those signals and getting them to a loudspeakers? If so,
next you need to decide what sound you want to come out of those eight
channels. Pick a disposition you like and decide how you want to slice it
up. Perhaps great flutes, strings, and principals on one channel; great
reeds on another; swell flutes, strings, and principles on another; etc.?
(But you and others can surely come up with a better scheme.) Then, as Mr.
Reimer mentioned, you will nearly certainly be editing sound fonts, so get
a sound font editor that doesn't cost money (and perhaps one that is also
free software ;-) ) such as viena, vienna, polyphone, swami, etc., and
begin working to divide up the disposition to your liking. As you have
questions, feel free to post to this list (under specific subject headings
if you please).
One nice thing about this approach is that you can combine dispositions.
Though, it may be extra work to make sure the ranks speak coherently
(matching volume, etc.).
In Christ,
Aaron Laws
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

William Blalock

2017-06-29 18:12:08 UTC

Permalink

Thank you Howard. In response to the reverb my technical manual showed
reverb can be used. Each amplifier has a connection according to the manual
on each amplifier. it is a RCA connection. After learning that I assumed I
would need to purchase a reverb devise as you suggested. I was going to
call my technician to inquire of exactly the way to do this being he was
the installer and also serviced the organ when it was in the church I
purchased it from also considering he may have installed this organ in
other locations where reverb was needed. I thought this to be a direct way
to learn exactly what I have and what I need however; I do trust and hope
you will continue to walk me thru this as I feel you have the best advise
due to your being an accomplished organist and computer technician. That
said I also feel you fully understand exactly what I want in the end result
so I will greatly appreciate your staying with me on this. I just guessing
at this but my assumption from what it looks like is I will need 2 of
whatever brand and type is best in one for each amp. It also appears that
they will be plugged in to the rca connection that the manual states is for
reverb. I looked a lexicon last night and its connection is a quarter inch
plug. So I guess the cable/cables needed to connect that would be quarter
inch one end and rca the other. In your opinion does it look like these
amps were designed that this would reverb all channels of the amp? As for
the jumper cable that is something I found researching last night and think
that was likely referring to the cable to connect the reverb device to the
amp. So understand I certainly don't take any of this to be the way on my
understanding. As I gather information and do my best to inform you of what
I have I am confident you can advise how to do this. As for the mixing of
internal voice and VPO here was my thought on that. My organ has a LCD
screen to do many functions one being I can enable and disable functions
such as internal voicing. All or selected stops. Example is I can disable
internal 8ft trumpet without disabling midi signal of the 8ft trumpet draw
knob and enable it on the VPO. I also have a great number of pistons that I
could dedicate a few of to control VPO stops. If I were to decide to use my
original it would be because I found it to sound considerably better but
use the VPO for stops my organ does not have. I didn't mean mixing vpo and
internal in the fashion you understood me to be implying. After my
explaining this if you believe this not to be a good idea I will trust that
and and shoot this one down lol. Before all this is done I may in fact need
to ask if you will consider "for a fee" to remotely help me get this done
whatever way I choose to go. Thanks so much Keith

Post by Howard Ashley
William (Keith),
No disrespect meant to your technician, but I have
never heard of such an arrangement for obtaining reverb! I still think you
need to consider the purchase of a dedicated digital convolution reverb
unit. The Yamaha DSP-1 was a highly respected reverb in its day, and these
days they are available used for ~$100. The "problem" with really current
reverbs is that they usually do so much more: delay, flanging, chorusing,
etc. You want reverb, just the reverb, thank you, Maam. That is hard to
find. As a trained organist you are used to having your entire stoplist
accessible via the console. If you go to a VPO you CAN control its stop
offerings via your console's drawknobs but not both simultaneously! Any
scheme to allow your drawknobs to both control native sounds and VPO
additions becomes 'non-standard'. You will of necessity have to consider a
touchscreen(s) to control the VPO voices. Then you will have to modify
(adapt) your technique to selecting voices in this non-standard way. Unless
I way miss my guess, you won't do it for long. Cheap (or free) soundfonts
will NOT sound better than a Hauptwerk sample set of a large English organ
with dry samples retailing for ~$1000 USD. You cannot significantly improve
on the quality your current organs voicing without spending thousands. You
can, however, improve immensely on its *sound* by a modest investment in a
hardware reverb unit inserted into the audio chain. It would be useful I
think to understand how your current instrument is using the channels
available to it. It is unusual for that time to use a pair of high wattage
amps for several channels of organ divisions or tone families. What kind of
amps are these? Car audio? Pro audio? To properly reverb the instrument you
may need to use a mixer, and since around the '90's most mixers with more
than 4 channels often have reverb (and other effects) built right in. The
more I think about it, that is likely to be the easiest and best solution.
To get something like a Behringer or Yamaha 8ch mixer with built in effects
(reverb). Sadly, the vast majority of mixers will only output in stereo (2
chan). A few will do 4 channels (4 bus). That should be enough, I think.
I'm thinking there has to be a 32' stop or two on that instrument, and thus
there should be a subwoofer somewhere in the audio scheme. Is there?
Attention to these details will be much more bang for the buck than any
amount of work with VPO technology will realize. IMO.
On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 8:09 AM, William Blalock <

Post by William Blalock
Thank you Aaron and thanks to all who have responded to my plead for
help. Anything outside of a basic set up/configuration of VPO to me is
quite a challenge. All of you have shared with me the many options I have.
Howard mentioned after learning more about my organ and the audio system
suggested I consider seeking options to bring out the best of it without
VPO by adding reverb. I strongly felt his advice was well worth looking in
to. As I mentioned earlier my organ was in a fairly large church with
cathedral ceilings, no carpet and speakers were 30 feet or so high likely
to have had great acoustics without the need of reverb. I was not able to
hear the organ while it was in the church but was told how the organ was
set up and sure it would have sounded much better. His suggesting I
consider this I looked in my technical manual and it appears I can have
reverb without the need of an added device with the use of a jumper cable.
I have a phone number of the technician that installed and serviced the
organ whom I also purchased the technical manual from about 8 months ago.
I plan to contact him in a few days when he returns from out of town trip
to inquire how I make this connection. While the organ sounds very nice on
its own it doesn't come very close to what adding VPO does but surely
reverb will most definitely bring it up a notch or two and well worth the
try. While I am currently using 8 channels and 8 speakers my system is
expandable to 16 channel thus I can purchase additional speakers if I
choose and consider mixing my original internal voicing and adding VPO in
order to expand and depending on how good the added reverb effects my organ
may even be able to get by with a very basic VPO that I can grow with as I
become more educated with more technical aspects of VPO. I have my organ in
a chapel in the funeral home where I work that seats about 200 people so it
is a fairly large room in comparison to having it at home but it has low
ceilings and carpet but a better option to have it considering it
size. With my current occupation I am not able to have the time to serve as
a church organist or time to play others in the area for enjoyment thus is
why I want to do as much with my own as I can. Thanks to all of you. Keith

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 4:34 PM, William Blalock <

Post by William Blalock
My organ has no internal amp/speakers. I have 2 X 650 watt amps and
8 X 3 way htc15 speakers. This organ came from factory with this external
audio. the configuration was when I had all connected to my organ without
computer/hauptwerk was 1 amp and 4 speaker left and 1 amp 4 speakers on
right. This is a digital organ but not digital pipe sampling as in VPO and
does not have reverb. I feel that the reason it has no reverb as an organ
of this size was built for a large church that would not need reverb having
the acoustics to accommodate it. I have considered and feel that adding
reverb to my original set up would sound much better but I know It would
not fully satisfy my desire for a true pipe sound. I feel this organ having
full midi and this audio system I am most of the way to having a great
sounding organ if I can find the best way to go. I don't want to spend more
than necessary to accomplish this but don't mind spending what it takes to
do it right. Bottom line is I am looking the most cost effective way to
take this organ to the top. I will say I am not sold on the artisan as I
mention earlier in our conversation I have not found anyone with one or any
reviews. my goal is to get help with the best way to go about this and
should it be Hauptwerk or jorgan I most definitely will need some help and
certainly be a lot learn on my part to witch will depend very much on the
generosity of others. I did find a hauptwerk consultant willing to do this
connecting remotely to my computer for what I would consider to be a very
reasonable price and have not ruled this option out either. Again I
do appreciate all of you for taking the time to share your knowledge and
advice and I am sure it will put me in the right direction

William,
It sounds like you will love what can be achieved with jOrgan. I take it
that your computer can provide eight analog channels of output, and you can
handle amplifying those signals and getting them to a loudspeakers? If so,
next you need to decide what sound you want to come out of those eight
channels. Pick a disposition you like and decide how you want to slice it
up. Perhaps great flutes, strings, and principals on one channel; great
reeds on another; swell flutes, strings, and principles on another; etc.?
(But you and others can surely come up with a better scheme.) Then, as Mr.
Reimer mentioned, you will nearly certainly be editing sound fonts, so get
a sound font editor that doesn't cost money (and perhaps one that is also
free software ;-) ) such as viena, vienna, polyphone, swami, etc., and
begin working to divide up the disposition to your liking. As you have
questions, feel free to post to this list (under specific subject headings
if you please).
One nice thing about this approach is that you can combine dispositions.
Though, it may be extra work to make sure the ranks speak coherently
(matching volume, etc.).
In Christ,
Aaron Laws
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Howard Ashley

2017-06-29 19:31:25 UTC

Permalink

Keith (formerly known as William),
Ok, it's all getting clearer. So, I think it is more important to
know what is coming OUT of your organ and on which channels, than what
might be going into the amplifiers. The Lexicon MX-400 is a 4 in 4 out
(surround sound) reverb/effects unit. You would not need two of them for
your application. You are going to need a mixer no matter what. Here is
one: https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-MG12-12-Input-4-Bus-Mixer/dp/B00IBIVMQ4.
All your outputs from your organ go into this mixer and it sends 2 (or 4)
signals to your reverb and then takes the 2 (or 4) signals back from the
reverb, mixes it with the signals from your console and sends the whole
shebang to your amplifiers. Some of these mixers have reverb built in for
not a lot more money, but I didn't find any of those quickly. Google: 4 bus
mixer for ideas.

A scheme which uses J'Organ voices to add to the sounds your organ has has
merit, but how its implemented is fairly critical as to playability. Feel
free to move this to direct email and I will consider doing a detailed
analysis of your situation: make of organ, age, stoplist. Remember, the
result has to be compatible with how we get around a large organ that
doesn't have any enhancements. I plan to use the stoptabs present on my
console only for those voices internal to the 'existing' organ. Additional
voices will be accessed by a Novation Launchpad(s) and also will be
settable on pistons. You still need a means of direct access of the J'Organ
voices even if your intent is to call it up via a piston.

Post by William Blalock
Thank you Howard. In response to the reverb my technical manual showed
reverb can be used. Each amplifier has a connection according to the manual
on each amplifier. it is a RCA connection. After learning that I assumed I
would need to purchase a reverb devise as you suggested. I was going to
call my technician to inquire of exactly the way to do this being he was
the installer and also serviced the organ when it was in the church I
purchased it from also considering he may have installed this organ in
other locations where reverb was needed. I thought this to be a direct way
to learn exactly what I have and what I need however; I do trust and hope
you will continue to walk me thru this as I feel you have the best advise
due to your being an accomplished organist and computer technician. That
said I also feel you fully understand exactly what I want in the end result
so I will greatly appreciate your staying with me on this. I just guessing
at this but my assumption from what it looks like is I will need 2 of
whatever brand and type is best in one for each amp. It also appears that
they will be plugged in to the rca connection that the manual states is for
reverb. I looked a lexicon last night and its connection is a quarter inch
plug. So I guess the cable/cables needed to connect that would be quarter
inch one end and rca the other. In your opinion does it look like these
amps were designed that this would reverb all channels of the amp? As for
the jumper cable that is something I found researching last night and think
that was likely referring to the cable to connect the reverb device to the
amp. So understand I certainly don't take any of this to be the way on my
understanding. As I gather information and do my best to inform you of what
I have I am confident you can advise how to do this. As for the mixing of
internal voice and VPO here was my thought on that. My organ has a LCD
screen to do many functions one being I can enable and disable functions
such as internal voicing. All or selected stops. Example is I can disable
internal 8ft trumpet without disabling midi signal of the 8ft trumpet draw
knob and enable it on the VPO. I also have a great number of pistons that I
could dedicate a few of to control VPO stops. If I were to decide to use my
original it would be because I found it to sound considerably better but
use the VPO for stops my organ does not have. I didn't mean mixing vpo and
internal in the fashion you understood me to be implying. After my
explaining this if you believe this not to be a good idea I will trust that
and and shoot this one down lol. Before all this is done I may in fact need
to ask if you will consider "for a fee" to remotely help me get this done
whatever way I choose to go. Thanks so much Keith
On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Howard Ashley <

Post by William Blalock
Thank you Aaron and thanks to all who have responded to my plead for
help. Anything outside of a basic set up/configuration of VPO to me is
quite a challenge. All of you have shared with me the many options I have.
Howard mentioned after learning more about my organ and the audio system
suggested I consider seeking options to bring out the best of it without
VPO by adding reverb. I strongly felt his advice was well worth looking in
to. As I mentioned earlier my organ was in a fairly large church with
cathedral ceilings, no carpet and speakers were 30 feet or so high likely
to have had great acoustics without the need of reverb. I was not able to
hear the organ while it was in the church but was told how the organ was
set up and sure it would have sounded much better. His suggesting I
consider this I looked in my technical manual and it appears I can have
reverb without the need of an added device with the use of a jumper cable.
I have a phone number of the technician that installed and serviced the
organ whom I also purchased the technical manual from about 8 months ago.
I plan to contact him in a few days when he returns from out of town trip
to inquire how I make this connection. While the organ sounds very nice on
its own it doesn't come very close to what adding VPO does but surely
reverb will most definitely bring it up a notch or two and well worth the
try. While I am currently using 8 channels and 8 speakers my system is
expandable to 16 channel thus I can purchase additional speakers if I
choose and consider mixing my original internal voicing and adding VPO in
order to expand and depending on how good the added reverb effects my organ
may even be able to get by with a very basic VPO that I can grow with as I
become more educated with more technical aspects of VPO. I have my organ in
a chapel in the funeral home where I work that seats about 200 people so it
is a fairly large room in comparison to having it at home but it has low
ceilings and carpet but a better option to have it considering it
size. With my current occupation I am not able to have the time to serve as
a church organist or time to play others in the area for enjoyment thus is
why I want to do as much with my own as I can. Thanks to all of you. Keith

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 4:34 PM, William Blalock <

Post by William Blalock
My organ has no internal amp/speakers. I have 2 X 650 watt amps and
8 X 3 way htc15 speakers. This organ came from factory with this external
audio. the configuration was when I had all connected to my organ without
computer/hauptwerk was 1 amp and 4 speaker left and 1 amp 4 speakers on
right. This is a digital organ but not digital pipe sampling as in VPO and
does not have reverb. I feel that the reason it has no reverb as an organ
of this size was built for a large church that would not need reverb having
the acoustics to accommodate it. I have considered and feel that adding
reverb to my original set up would sound much better but I know It would
not fully satisfy my desire for a true pipe sound. I feel this organ having
full midi and this audio system I am most of the way to having a great
sounding organ if I can find the best way to go. I don't want to spend more
than necessary to accomplish this but don't mind spending what it takes to
do it right. Bottom line is I am looking the most cost effective way to
take this organ to the top. I will say I am not sold on the artisan as I
mention earlier in our conversation I have not found anyone with one or any
reviews. my goal is to get help with the best way to go about this and
should it be Hauptwerk or jorgan I most definitely will need some help and
certainly be a lot learn on my part to witch will depend very much on the
generosity of others. I did find a hauptwerk consultant willing to do this
connecting remotely to my computer for what I would consider to be a very
reasonable price and have not ruled this option out either. Again I
do appreciate all of you for taking the time to share your knowledge and
advice and I am sure it will put me in the right direction

William,
It sounds like you will love what can be achieved with jOrgan. I take
it that your computer can provide eight analog channels of output, and you
can handle amplifying those signals and getting them to a loudspeakers? If
so, next you need to decide what sound you want to come out of those eight
channels. Pick a disposition you like and decide how you want to slice it
up. Perhaps great flutes, strings, and principals on one channel; great
reeds on another; swell flutes, strings, and principles on another; etc.?
(But you and others can surely come up with a better scheme.) Then, as Mr.
Reimer mentioned, you will nearly certainly be editing sound fonts, so get
a sound font editor that doesn't cost money (and perhaps one that is also
free software ;-) ) such as viena, vienna, polyphone, swami, etc., and
begin working to divide up the disposition to your liking. As you have
questions, feel free to post to this list (under specific subject headings
if you please).
One nice thing about this approach is that you can combine
dispositions. Though, it may be extra work to make sure the ranks speak
coherently (matching volume, etc.).
In Christ,
Aaron Laws
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

William Blalock

2017-06-29 20:05:41 UTC

Permalink

Thanks Howard. When thinking of the combination of existing organ with
added VPO what I had in mind was similar to a hybrid organ example being a
40 rank digital organ with 3 ranks of real pipes. Also my organ does have a
32 ft stop and that one and a few others I have in use. Those draw knobs
are not assigned to vpo. Again my Ideas are just ideas. Know when I share
them they are in reality questions or possibilities. On another note I just
received an email from the technician that has a refurbished CGR6 Reverb
unit that was used with my specific organ brand in locations that needed
reverb. Cost is $375 with included wiring to connect and instructions most
could easily install. The factory technical manual did show that a optional
CGR6 reverb could be added. I replied back to him asking if one unit serves
both amps or do I need one of each. Do you think this may be my best
direction for reverb?

Post by Howard Ashley
Keith (formerly known as William),
Ok, it's all getting clearer. So, I think it is more important to
know what is coming OUT of your organ and on which channels, than what
might be going into the amplifiers. The Lexicon MX-400 is a 4 in 4 out
(surround sound) reverb/effects unit. You would not need two of them for
your application. You are going to need a mixer no matter what. Here is
one: https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-MG12-12-Input-4-Bus-Mixer/dp/B00IBIVMQ4.
All your outputs from your organ go into this mixer and it sends 2 (or 4)
signals to your reverb and then takes the 2 (or 4) signals back from the
reverb, mixes it with the signals from your console and sends the whole
shebang to your amplifiers. Some of these mixers have reverb built in for
not a lot more money, but I didn't find any of those quickly. Google: 4 bus
mixer for ideas.
A scheme which uses J'Organ voices to add to the sounds your organ has has
merit, but how its implemented is fairly critical as to playability. Feel
free to move this to direct email and I will consider doing a detailed
analysis of your situation: make of organ, age, stoplist. Remember, the
result has to be compatible with how we get around a large organ that
doesn't have any enhancements. I plan to use the stoptabs present on my
console only for those voices internal to the 'existing' organ. Additional
voices will be accessed by a Novation Launchpad(s) and also will be
settable on pistons. You still need a means of direct access of the J'Organ
voices even if your intent is to call it up via a piston.
On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 11:12 AM, William Blalock <

Post by William Blalock
Thank you Aaron and thanks to all who have responded to my plead for
help. Anything outside of a basic set up/configuration of VPO to me is
quite a challenge. All of you have shared with me the many options I have.
Howard mentioned after learning more about my organ and the audio system
suggested I consider seeking options to bring out the best of it without
VPO by adding reverb. I strongly felt his advice was well worth looking in
to. As I mentioned earlier my organ was in a fairly large church with
cathedral ceilings, no carpet and speakers were 30 feet or so high likely
to have had great acoustics without the need of reverb. I was not able to
hear the organ while it was in the church but was told how the organ was
set up and sure it would have sounded much better. His suggesting I
consider this I looked in my technical manual and it appears I can have
reverb without the need of an added device with the use of a jumper cable.
I have a phone number of the technician that installed and serviced the
organ whom I also purchased the technical manual from about 8 months ago.
I plan to contact him in a few days when he returns from out of town trip
to inquire how I make this connection. While the organ sounds very nice on
its own it doesn't come very close to what adding VPO does but surely
reverb will most definitely bring it up a notch or two and well worth the
try. While I am currently using 8 channels and 8 speakers my system is
expandable to 16 channel thus I can purchase additional speakers if I
choose and consider mixing my original internal voicing and adding VPO in
order to expand and depending on how good the added reverb effects my organ
may even be able to get by with a very basic VPO that I can grow with as I
become more educated with more technical aspects of VPO. I have my organ in
a chapel in the funeral home where I work that seats about 200 people so it
is a fairly large room in comparison to having it at home but it has low
ceilings and carpet but a better option to have it considering it
size. With my current occupation I am not able to have the time to serve as
a church organist or time to play others in the area for enjoyment thus is
why I want to do as much with my own as I can. Thanks to all of you. Keith

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 4:34 PM, William Blalock <

Post by William Blalock
My organ has no internal amp/speakers. I have 2 X 650 watt amps and
8 X 3 way htc15 speakers. This organ came from factory with this external
audio. the configuration was when I had all connected to my organ without
computer/hauptwerk was 1 amp and 4 speaker left and 1 amp 4 speakers on
right. This is a digital organ but not digital pipe sampling as in VPO and
does not have reverb. I feel that the reason it has no reverb as an organ
of this size was built for a large church that would not need reverb having
the acoustics to accommodate it. I have considered and feel that adding
reverb to my original set up would sound much better but I know It would
not fully satisfy my desire for a true pipe sound. I feel this organ having
full midi and this audio system I am most of the way to having a great
sounding organ if I can find the best way to go. I don't want to spend more
than necessary to accomplish this but don't mind spending what it takes to
do it right. Bottom line is I am looking the most cost effective way to
take this organ to the top. I will say I am not sold on the artisan as I
mention earlier in our conversation I have not found anyone with one or any
reviews. my goal is to get help with the best way to go about this and
should it be Hauptwerk or jorgan I most definitely will need some help and
certainly be a lot learn on my part to witch will depend very much on the
generosity of others. I did find a hauptwerk consultant willing to do this
connecting remotely to my computer for what I would consider to be a very
reasonable price and have not ruled this option out either. Again I
do appreciate all of you for taking the time to share your knowledge and
advice and I am sure it will put me in the right direction

William,
It sounds like you will love what can be achieved with jOrgan. I take
it that your computer can provide eight analog channels of output, and you
can handle amplifying those signals and getting them to a loudspeakers? If
so, next you need to decide what sound you want to come out of those eight
channels. Pick a disposition you like and decide how you want to slice it
up. Perhaps great flutes, strings, and principals on one channel; great
reeds on another; swell flutes, strings, and principles on another; etc.?
(But you and others can surely come up with a better scheme.) Then, as Mr.
Reimer mentioned, you will nearly certainly be editing sound fonts, so get
a sound font editor that doesn't cost money (and perhaps one that is also
free software ;-) ) such as viena, vienna, polyphone, swami, etc., and
begin working to divide up the disposition to your liking. As you have
questions, feel free to post to this list (under specific subject headings
if you please).
One nice thing about this approach is that you can combine
dispositions. Though, it may be extra work to make sure the ranks speak
coherently (matching volume, etc.).
In Christ,
Aaron Laws
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Roy Radford

2017-06-30 13:10:48 UTC

Permalink

Hi, Paul,

Just received this via jorgan user

"I trust this is a private posting."

Evidently not! [image: *:) happy]

Have fun,

Roy.

On 30 June 2017 at 13:30, Paul Kealy via jOrgan-user <

Hi again, Marc-Paul
Yes, I remember our postings from before. You are a significant person to
many of us, and I have many of your postings in a special folder.
I trust this is a private posting.
I got a (then brand new) 32-bit Win7 to build a dedicated jOrgan at the
time our city declared bankruptcy (they own the theatre housing the Wurli
216 I had created the restoration project on which the "MidiTzer" is
designed) at the time I lost my museum venue and had to put my stuff in
storage.
That was almost a decade ago, and I am seeking to re-invigorate my organ
interest or leave it altogether. Now the Win 7 is obsolete and the dual
Delta 1010LT soundcards inoperable.
I can still run my MidiTzer 260 and 216 consoles thru 20 and 16 speaker
cabs using XP computers and SoundBlasters for a thrilling experience. I had
designed to illustrate different the variety of sounds availiable thru
organ. I mentioned the 100 page tutorial how I did all of that just as XP
and SoundBlasters went obsolete on us.
o O have a half dozen XPs (with their multiple plugin slots for my many
SOundBlasters (that each have four discrete amp outputs) sitting idle, as
well as several Win 7s that are worthless, since I cannot get them to load
drivers to operate my DELTA 1010LTs so I can configure them to play (what
they were designed to play: a total of 20 outputs).
---
I have a couple of laptops and desktops that were Win 7s that turned
overnight behind my back into Win 10s (that I hate).
I am on computer a good 6 hours a day publishing and managing websites and
several chatlists, so I am not suoopid, but have really been tossed a bad
lot, that is certain.
On top of everything else, my system suffered a virus that crashed my
primary hard drive and my good friend and guru destroyed my backup system
trying to ameliorate the problem, so I lost 20 years of files of my
published books and conference seminars I taught I am seeking to regather,
only partially successfully . . . and my weekly "e-zine postings" to the
writers groups I created and maintained faithfully without fail for more
than a decade was halted for several months - I set July 8 as the date to
revive the weekly group postings - finally!
My plan this month was to finally free the Win7 and restore my organ
project. Storage rental for my museum has been awful - I never thought I
would have been set aside so long, so I face a serious reality.
Other things being equal, I would like to get my (new, unused, dedicated)
Win 7 with the dual 1010LTs operational to power jOrgan in my gutted
Devtronics console with 16 to 20 speakers (as I do now successfully with my
XP / SoundBlaster computers in the MidiTzer 216 and 260 setups).
You have probably visited my (horribly outdated) website at StentoVox dot
com.
Not sure ff there is any hope. I have asked the list for drivers, and
simply told to download some from the Internet - I TRIED that -
unsuccessfully before asking for help; nothing works to power my MidiTzer,
let alone the 4 manual machine I sought to design in jOrgan running
multiple speaker cabs.
Most organists prefer a combined stereo output and do not agree with my
reasoning to create separated speaker cabs for ranks.
But my purpose is to separate ranks for teaching non-organ related folks
to hear separate ranks separated, as I have taught in my MIDI course
workshops, not just create a better sounding organ to the nth degree.
Our society - today's youth - is losing the battle to become creatively
involved in music and understanding the creative process - the reason I
created tgeh museum and the writers fgroups int he first place and it went
well for several years before crashing and by the time I began to consider
a return to my passion for the King of Instruments, in the interim the
computer engines became obsolete.
If that weren't enough, the fellow who was soldering my MidiBox PC boards
for my system and accompanying my 12-projector Multi-Media Christmas Carol
Sing-Along on my touring organ died just before last year's performances
that halted that gig.
Life ain't purty!
Anyhow, it was good to see you on screen again. I appreciated our
correspondence in better years gone by. You are a special person.
pk
, and Carol
. my
On Wednesday, June 28, 2017, 9:33:08 PM PDT, Marc via jOrgan-user <
Hi Paul KâŠ
âŠwe have spoken before. I am a certified tech with 25
years experience in IT, broadcast engineer, musician and organist.
Please feel free to send me a private email or forum note mentioning what
the nature of your difficulties are. I am sure we can figure out something
that will work for you.
I run jOrgan and Hauptwerk from an Allen 705 converted to midi. Sound out
is x-fi pcie.
Kindest Regards
Marc-Paul
------------------------------
net ]
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2017 8:42 PM
*Cc:* Paul Kealy
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan
I comiserate.
IF and WHEN I can get my dual Delta 1010LTs working makes a difference if
I stay here. I keep trying to dfownload Win 7 32 bit drivers fir the
computer I got specifically to create this organ, but no deal at all!
Several have told me of the downoaldable websites, but theydo not work for
me.
If anybody has driver software I'd love a copy.
On The Other Hand
Have you seen this?
Although it is for Paramount multi-channel HW, some of it may pertain to
your need.
pk
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
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