Discussion:
Sharing my first organ ...
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mezzo
2011-07-30 12:15:04 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

I'm delighted to present you my organ. I asked some questions recently, and
I finally was able to finish it.

The soundfounts are pretty heavy (361Mo in total). Here are the links:
- for the disposition: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/disposition.tar.gz
- for the soundfonts: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/grand-orgue.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/p%C3%A9dalier.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/positif.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/r%C3%A9cit.tar.gz

If you need an external reverb:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/reverb.tar.gz
(I am using fluidsynth reverb to create the different sound levels, so you
will need one)


In this disposition I worked on a new *tremulant*:
- synchronized
- configurable in pitch, volume, waveform
- always continues until the initial state after being deactivated
- no need to replay note

I also created a sort of *random detuning*. Don't worry, you can disable it
if prefer a "pure" but dead sound!
It is based on several switch filters (30 per keyboards!) but only 1 per
keyboard is used when a key is pressed. The switch filters represent a
sequence, there is thus 30 different states, each with a specific detuning.
I made it relatively light for the CPU: you have maximum 20 midi messages
when you press a key (not all the ranks are re-tuned at every key press).

Concerning the *registration* it's maybe a little experimental. I tried not
to have the same ranks in all the keyboards, having thus a great variety of
sounds. I create myself 3 ranks with some flutes or principals: Théorbe III,
Aliquot IV and Harmoniques II which can be used with reeds or a cornet (odd
harmonics).

Try it, and just tell me how to call my organ! I don't have inspiration for
that.

And of course, remarks are welcome.

Enjoy

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John Beach
2011-07-30 23:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Mezzo, what are the four ranks that make up the Aliquot IV ?

John B.

-----Original Message-----
From: mezzo
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 8:15 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [jOrgan-user] Sharing my first organ ...

Hi all,

I'm delighted to present you my organ. I asked some questions recently, and
I finally was able to finish it.

The soundfounts are pretty heavy (361Mo in total). Here are the links:
- for the disposition: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/disposition.tar.gz
- for the soundfonts: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/grand-orgue.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/p%C3%A9dalier.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/positif.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/r%C3%A9cit.tar.gz

If you need an external reverb:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/reverb.tar.gz
(I am using fluidsynth reverb to create the different sound levels, so you
will need one)


In this disposition I worked on a new *tremulant*:
- synchronized
- configurable in pitch, volume, waveform
- always continues until the initial state after being deactivated
- no need to replay note

I also created a sort of *random detuning*. Don't worry, you can disable it
if prefer a "pure" but dead sound!
It is based on several switch filters (30 per keyboards!) but only 1 per
keyboard is used when a key is pressed. The switch filters represent a
sequence, there is thus 30 different states, each with a specific detuning.
I made it relatively light for the CPU: you have maximum 20 midi messages
when you press a key (not all the ranks are re-tuned at every key press).

Concerning the *registration* it's maybe a little experimental. I tried not
to have the same ranks in all the keyboards, having thus a great variety of
sounds. I create myself 3 ranks with some flutes or principals: Théorbe III,
Aliquot IV and Harmoniques II which can be used with reeds or a cornet (odd
harmonics).

Try it, and just tell me how to call my organ! I don't have inspiration for
that.

And of course, remarks are welcome.

Enjoy

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John Reimer
2011-07-31 00:52:37 UTC
Permalink
Hi mezzo,

Can those files be extracted under Windows XP?

John Reimer

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John Beach
2011-07-31 01:08:58 UTC
Permalink
John, he may be asleep on the other side of the world. The answer to that
is "yes." You can use WINRAR to extract the .tar.gz files and then
everything is
useable in Windows XP or 7. The one problem I have had is that he has 8
instances of Fluidsynth, 2 for each of the four divisions of his organ. I
can get the
Grand Orgue 1 and 2 to load and the Positif 1 and 2 to load, but I can not
get the Recit 1 and 2 or the Pedale 1 and 2 to load. I have tried loading
them first and for some reason they will not load. I don't think this is an
issue about which anyone can give me any advice. I just have to figure out
what the problem is.
But didn't Sven say a while ago that the latest versions reverted to ONE
instance of Fluidsynth and that multiple Soundfonts in Fluidsynth would not
be necessary? I don't recall that he said that multiple soundfonts would no
longer work in Fluidsynth, but that may be the case. I don't want to start
a rumor, so I will await Sven's input about this, but maybe it is the reason
why I can't get more than the 4 soundfonts to load.

John Beach

-----Original Message-----
From: John Reimer
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 8:52 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Sharing my first organ ...

Hi mezzo,

Can those files be extracted under Windows XP?

John Reimer

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John Reimer
2011-07-31 02:20:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Beach
You can use WINRAR to extract the .tar.gz files and then
everything is
useable in Windows XP or 7.
Thank you, John. I'll start downloading.

John Reimer

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John Reimer
2011-07-31 11:15:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by mezzo
I'm delighted to present you my organ. I asked some questions recently,
and I finally was able to finish it.
Hi mezzo,

I have just had success in getting all the soundfonts to load, with no
problems whatsoever, and I have been playing your instrument initially just
using Windows XP and a single MIDI keyboard, with no reverb. I'm looking
forward to trying it out at the console, with some reverberation.

You have every reason to be delighted at what you have achieved.
Congratulations!
I haven't had opportunity to discover some of its secrets by opening the
soundfonts with Viena, but I do hope you will eventually let us know some of
the details - to what extent you have made use of recordings etc., and what
methods you have used.

I regard the tonal quality to be of a very high standard, and I think the
random pitch thing is quite successful. I shall be looking at its details in
the disposition with much interest.

The big download put me off a bit, but because you have several separate
files, it was just a matter of downloading one at a time - onto my external
hard drive, because my desktop (soon to be replaced), is just too full.

I think a genius has joined our group!

John Reimer

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vadeeko
2011-07-31 12:55:40 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mezzo,

Congratulation for your first disposition and thanks for sharing it.

Can you advise which jOrgan edition your disposition is made to play with.

I am starting to download the files and I will try it later this evening.
Will keep you informed.

Many thanks and regards;

Wadih

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Marco Francesco
2011-07-31 13:09:49 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Mezzo. I share the same complimentary sentiments with John. I hope I
will be able to play it at one of the coming Sundays in church.

I have added reverb sliders and hope to find some time to experiment with
the registers.

Best wishes
Marco

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mezzo
2011-08-01 02:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Hi!
Post by John Beach
he may be asleep on the other side of the world
Partying in the caribbean :-)
Post by John Beach
Mezzo, what are the four ranks that make up the Aliquot IV ?
Harmoniques: at the beginning septième 1 1/7', neuvième 8/9'.
Théorbe: grosse tierce 6 2/5', grosse septième 4 4/7', grosse neuvième 3
5/9'
Aliquot: at the beginning grosse septième 2 2/7', grosse onzième 1 5/11',
quinzième 1 1/15', dix-neuvième 16/19’. Then 16/19' becomes 1 1/13', 1 1/15'
becomes 1 7/9', etc. (I don't remember exactly). It might end with 5 1/3',
4', 3 1/5', 2 2/3'.
This organ contains an Aliquot:
http://musiqueauchantdoiseau.edicypages.com/registres
Composition: fifth 5 1/3', third 3 1/5', seventh 2 2/7', ninth 1 7/9'
Post by John Beach
Can you advise which jOrgan edition your disposition is made to play with.
The version of jOrgan I used is 3.14 beta3.
Post by John Beach
I have added reverb sliders and hope to find some time to experiment with
the registers.
I added a console "Paramètres" for the reverbs parameters and the
environment sounds level. The trompets en chamade are now in a different
soundfont so that we can use a special reverberation for them.

I compressed in the .rar format the updated files (btw: .rar is better than
.tar.gz). I will update the links.

Concerning my several instances of fluidsynth ...
It sometimes happened that after having activated 8 presets of a soundfont,
the ninth refused to be activated (I think it's a fluidsynth problem under
linux). That's why I separated my soundfounts in 2 parts (8 presets x 2).
I can merge them easily if there is no other solution for you (I never had a
limitation in fluidsynth instances!).

Concerning the creation of the soundfonts ...
I used some samples of different Hauptwerk organs. Sometimes I missed the
last octave (trial versions), I used a script with Matlab (programming
software) to double the frequence. I applied also a low pass filter to avoid
sizzle.
Sometimes I encountered loop issues, mostly in stops made of several ranks
(cornet, aliquot, harmoniques, mixtures...). I created another script to
modify the sample so that it is looped perfectly. You shouldn't hear any
rough transition in the loops.
The hardest part was the harmonization. I took example on an Hauptwerk
organ, picking up intensities in dB for a lot of stops. I applied this
scheme to my organ. Then I corrected the whole organ, taking care of:
- the decomposed cornets (bourdon 8, flute 8-4-2, nasard, tierce)
- the plein jeu (principals and mixtures)
- the reeds (trompets 16-8-4)
- finally the "details" stops (voix humaine, hautbois, ranquette ...).

And thank you for your kind remarks!

Davy

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John Reimer
2011-08-01 04:29:12 UTC
Permalink
Concerning my several instances of fluidsynth ...
It sometimes happened that after having activated 8 presets of a soundfont,
the ninth refused to be activated (I think it's a fluidsynth problem under
linux). That's why I separated my soundfounts in 2 parts (8 presets x 2).
I can merge them easily if there is no other solution for you (I never had a
limitation in fluidsynth instances!).

Hi Davy,

If you had asked us a question about this we could have answered it quickly.
;-)
Fluidsynth reserves MIDI Channel 10 as a drum channel, and to work around
this problem, we have to give each rank a special Channel Property (in
"Construct" Mode): notEqual 9

Have a look at other dispositions to get the idea.

John Reimer

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John Beach
2011-08-01 15:20:12 UTC
Permalink
I have a problem loading all 8 instances of fluidsynth. I can get the Grand
Orgue 1 and 2 and the Positif 1 and 2 to load, but I can not get the
Pedalier 1 and 2 or the Recit 1 and 2 to load. Even if I attempt to load
the Pedalier and Recit first, I can't get either to load. I have no problem
looking at either of them using Vienna Soundfont Studio, so this is a
problem with jOrgan Fluidsynth. I may try using Creative sound with them
instead of Fluidsynth.

John Beach

-----Original Message-----
From: John Reimer
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 12:29 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Sharing my first organ ...

Concerning my several instances of fluidsynth ...
It sometimes happened that after having activated 8 presets of a soundfont,
the ninth refused to be activated (I think it's a fluidsynth problem under
linux). That's why I separated my soundfounts in 2 parts (8 presets x 2).
I can merge them easily if there is no other solution for you (I never had a
limitation in fluidsynth instances!).

Hi Davy,

If you had asked us a question about this we could have answered it quickly.
;-)
Fluidsynth reserves MIDI Channel 10 as a drum channel, and to work around
this problem, we have to give each rank a special Channel Property (in
"Construct" Mode): notEqual 9

Have a look at other dispositions to get the idea.

John Reimer

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mezzo
2011-08-01 17:46:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Reimer
If you had asked us a question about this we could have answered it
quickly. ;-)
Fluidsynth reserves MIDI Channel 10 as a drum channel, and to work around
this problem, we have to give each rank a special Channel Property (in
"Construct" Mode): notEqual 9
Thanks a lot! I merged my soundfonts.
Post by John Reimer
I have a problem loading all 8 instances of fluidsynth. I can get the Grand
Orgue 1 and 2 and the Positif 1 and 2 to load, but I can not get the
Pedalier 1 and 2 or the Recit 1 and 2 to load. Even if I attempt to load
the Pedalier and Recit first, I can't get either to load. I have no problem
looking at either of them using Vienna Soundfont Studio, so this is a
problem with jOrgan Fluidsynth. I may try using Creative sound with them
instead of Fluidsynth.
John Beach
You can try again with the updated soundfonts (same links .rar). But they
are still 5 and I can't lessen the number.

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Marco Francesco
2011-08-02 16:03:56 UTC
Permalink
"Marco Francesco wrote:
I have added reverb sliders and hope to find some time to experiment
with the registers.

I added a console "Paramètres" for the reverbs parameters and the
environment sounds level. The trompets en chamade are now in a different
soundfont so that we can use a special reverberation for them.

I compressed in the .rar format the updated files (btw: .rar is better than
.tar.gz). I will update the links. "


I look forward to the new links.

Marco

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sarqoz
2011-08-02 09:39:15 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mezzo,



Thanks for this wonderful addition to the pool of organs we already have.
Congrats on your first release!

Downloading was swift and all loaded OK immediately.

The Recit and Positif play OK, but I have some troubles on the Grand Orgue:
when I start to play with some 8', 4' and 2' flue stops out, sometimes not
all sounds are triggered, like its polyphony is limited (but it is not per
fluidsynth setting).

Your solution for "detuning" the organ works perfectly over here.


For now I just called it the "Mezzo Organ".

Maybe this is of some inspiration: the new Grenzing organ in the cathedral
of Brussels, which Marie-Claire Alain called "l'Orgue des milles couleurs":
http://www.grenzing.com/organosshow.cfm?id=23&ip=23000
It bears quite some similarities.


Sarqoz



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mezzo
2011-08-02 10:45:31 UTC
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You are welcome :-)

You seam to have the same issue than Jbeach. Try with the latest version.

My organ is officialy *Mezz' Organ*!

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sarqoz
2011-08-04 08:19:56 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mezzo,



All sorted. After loading the organ a second time all was OK.

I didn't have to use the new upgraded download after all, so it must have
been a glitch of some sort. Thanks!



Sarqoz

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orgel jeux
2011-08-04 09:31:18 UTC
Permalink
Indeed a very nice organ in Brussels; I have some remarkable recordings of
the sound tests while it was still at the Grenzing factory; I believe it was
in Spain.

Hope to be able to get the Mezzo Organ playing in jOrgan; a pity that it has
to be done in dsound.........

Will be interesting to compare with the Caen that I got recently......

Are you sure, Mezzo, that we can not get into trouble because you seem to
have used some commercial HW samples????

greetings,

Geert
Post by vadeeko
Hi Mezzo,
All sorted. After loading the organ a second time all was OK.
I didn't have to use the new upgraded download after all, so it must have
been a glitch of some sort. Thanks!
Sarqoz
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sarqoz
2011-08-04 10:24:45 UTC
Permalink
Yes Geert, it's a beautiful church too! I walked in there some time ago
whilst a Mass was served. I heard the organ in action.

My account with Mezzo's organ is that I can play it via dsound with lower
than average (for me) latency. Good luck!


S.

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Graham Goode
2011-08-04 10:29:55 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sarqoz,

If you're playing on Windows Vista or Windows 7 you can use the
PortAudio WASAPI driver to get lower latency and still have multiple
instances of fluidsynth.

Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by sarqoz
Yes Geert, it's a beautiful church too! I walked in there some time ago
whilst a Mass was served. I heard the organ in action.
My account with Mezzo's organ is that I can play it via dsound with lower
than average (for me) latency. Good luck!
S.
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Bernd Casper
2011-08-04 10:52:25 UTC
Permalink
orgel jeux
2011-08-04 11:00:38 UTC
Permalink
Is that really true, Graham??

Its not so long ago, when we detected, that only the Focusrite was able to
do multiple instances of PortAudio ASIO........

Perhaps I was asleep when new developments took place.......??

Greetings,

Geert

Are you sure, Mezzo, that we can not get into trouble because you seem to
Post by orgel jeux
have used some commercial HW samples????
greetings,
Geert
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Graham Goode
2011-08-04 11:14:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Geert,

There are now three PortAudio driver architectures available - WDMKS,
ASIO, and WASAPI

WDMKS and ASIO require a single instance of fluidsynth per audio
device (as they do no share an audio device)

WASAPI has a 'share device' mode and so can be used for multiple
fluidsynth instances on the same audio device.

Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Is that really true, Graham??
Its not so long ago, when we detected, that only the Focusrite was able to
do multiple instances of PortAudio ASIO........
Perhaps I was asleep when new developments took place.......??
Greetings,
Geert
Are you sure, Mezzo, that we can not get into trouble because you seem to
Post by orgel jeux
have used some commercial HW samples????
greetings,
Geert
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orgel jeux
2011-08-04 13:06:56 UTC
Permalink
Well, well, Graham, it gets more complicated every time.........

Wonder if I can get it running. I wonder, if there is any advantage in
running this WASAPI thing over regular ASIO ??

Anyhow, the list of magic shouts has been enlarged again.........

Do not expect from me, that I get this all up and running today!!

Thanks,

Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Geert,
There are now three PortAudio driver architectures available - WDMKS,
ASIO, and WASAPI
WDMKS and ASIO require a single instance of fluidsynth per audio
device (as they do no share an audio device)
WASAPI has a 'share device' mode and so can be used for multiple
fluidsynth instances on the same audio device.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Is that really true, Graham??
Its not so long ago, when we detected, that only the Focusrite was able
to
Post by orgel jeux
do multiple instances of PortAudio ASIO........
Perhaps I was asleep when new developments took place.......??
Greetings,
Geert
Are you sure, Mezzo, that we can not get into trouble because you seem to
Post by orgel jeux
have used some commercial HW samples????
greetings,
Geert
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Post by orgel jeux
Post by orgel jeux
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Graham Goode
2011-08-04 13:12:08 UTC
Permalink
Hi Geert,

If you are wanting to use convolution reverb VSTs with jOrgan then
your only option is still the PortAudio ASIO driver - with the
limitation of only being able to have one fluidysnth instance. If,
however, you are content using the fluidsynth reverb, or your
Soundcard comes with a built in reverb, and you are running Vista or
Win7, then WASAPI will allow you to have multiple fluidsynth elements
running on the same Audio card, just like dsound does...

GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Well, well, Graham, it gets more complicated every time.........
Wonder if I can get it running. I wonder, if there is any advantage in
running this WASAPI thing over regular ASIO ??
Anyhow, the list of magic shouts has been enlarged again.........
Do not expect from me, that I get this all up and running today!!
Thanks,
Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Geert,
There are now three PortAudio driver architectures available - WDMKS,
ASIO, and WASAPI
WDMKS and ASIO require a single instance of fluidsynth per audio
device (as they do no share an audio device)
WASAPI has a 'share device' mode and so can be used for multiple
fluidsynth instances on the same audio device.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Is that really true, Graham??
Its not so long ago, when we detected, that only the Focusrite was able
to
Post by orgel jeux
do multiple instances of PortAudio ASIO........
Perhaps I was asleep when new developments took place.......??
Greetings,
Geert
Are you sure, Mezzo, that we can not get into trouble because you seem to
Post by orgel jeux
have used some commercial HW samples????
greetings,
Geert
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by orgel jeux
Post by orgel jeux
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orgel jeux
2011-08-04 13:59:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi Graham,

I use convolution with HW, but I still have my Lexicon MX200, so I will use
that in this situation.

Still no idea what advantage there is in WASAPI over dsound. Could you
explain??

Thanks,

Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Geert,
If you are wanting to use convolution reverb VSTs with jOrgan then
your only option is still the PortAudio ASIO driver - with the
limitation of only being able to have one fluidysnth instance. If,
however, you are content using the fluidsynth reverb, or your
Soundcard comes with a built in reverb, and you are running Vista or
Win7, then WASAPI will allow you to have multiple fluidsynth elements
running on the same Audio card, just like dsound does...
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Well, well, Graham, it gets more complicated every time.........
Wonder if I can get it running. I wonder, if there is any advantage in
running this WASAPI thing over regular ASIO ??
Anyhow, the list of magic shouts has been enlarged again.........
Do not expect from me, that I get this all up and running today!!
Thanks,
Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Geert,
There are now three PortAudio driver architectures available - WDMKS,
ASIO, and WASAPI
WDMKS and ASIO require a single instance of fluidsynth per audio
device (as they do no share an audio device)
WASAPI has a 'share device' mode and so can be used for multiple
fluidsynth instances on the same audio device.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Is that really true, Graham??
Its not so long ago, when we detected, that only the Focusrite was
able
Post by orgel jeux
Post by Graham Goode
to
Post by orgel jeux
do multiple instances of PortAudio ASIO........
Perhaps I was asleep when new developments took place.......??
Greetings,
Geert
Are you sure, Mezzo, that we can not get into trouble because you seem to
Post by orgel jeux
have used some commercial HW samples????
greetings,
Geert
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by orgel jeux
Post by Graham Goode
Post by orgel jeux
Post by orgel jeux
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by orgel jeux
Post by Graham Goode
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Graham Goode
2011-08-04 14:09:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi Geert,

Dsound uses the older windows audio architecture that goes through
kmixer before communicating with the audio driver layer of windows and
this leads to higher latency.

WASAPI speaks directly to the audio driver layer of windows and
therefore has much less latency..

The Technical Details for WASAPI:

Applications communicate with the audio driver through Sessions, and
these Sessions are programmed through the Windows Audio Session API
(WASAPI). In general, WASAPI operates in two modes. In exclusive mode
(also called DMA mode), unmixed audio streams are rendered directly to
the audio adapter and no other application's audio will play and
signal processing has no effect. Exclusive mode is useful for
applications that demand the least amount of intermediate processing
of the audio data or those that want to output compressed audio data
such as Dolby Digital, DTS or WMA Pro over S/PDIF. WASAPI exclusive
mode is similar to kernel streaming in function, but no kernel mode
programming is required. In shared mode, audio streams are rendered by
the application and optionally applied per-stream audio effects known
as Local Effects (LFX) (such as per-session volume control). Then the
streams are mixed by the global audio engine, where a set of global
audio effects (GFX) may be applied. Finally, they're rendered on the
audio device.

The higher level APIs such as the Wavexxx APIs and DirectSound use
shared mode, which results in pre-mixed PCM audio that is sent to the
driver in a single format (in terms of sample rate, bit depth and
channel count). This format is configurable by the end user through
Control Panel.

After passing through WASAPI, all host-based audio processing,
including custom audio processing, can take place (sample rate
conversion, mixing, effects). Host-based processing modules are
referred to as Audio Processing Objects, or APOs. All these components
operate in user mode. The only portion of this architecture that runs
in kernel mode is the audio driver (which contains the Port Class
driver, the vendor Miniport driver and the vendor HAL). The Windows
Kernel Mixer (KMixer) is completely gone. There is no direct path from
DirectSound to the audio drivers; DirectSound and MME are emulated as
Session instances. Since the whole point of DirectSound acceleration
is to allow hardware to process unmixed audio content, DirectSound
cannot be accelerated in this audio model. APIs such as ASIO and
OpenAL are not affected.


Bottom line:
If you can use the dsound driver and not experience noticeable
latency, then stick with it. If you are experiencing latency, give
WASAPI a try.

GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Hi Graham,
I use convolution with HW, but I still have my Lexicon MX200, so I will use
that in this situation.
Still no idea what advantage there is in WASAPI over dsound. Could you
explain??
Thanks,
Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Geert,
If you are wanting to use convolution reverb VSTs with jOrgan then
your only option is still the PortAudio ASIO driver - with the
limitation of only being able to have one fluidysnth instance. If,
however, you are content using the fluidsynth reverb, or your
Soundcard comes with a built in reverb, and you are running Vista or
Win7, then WASAPI will allow you to have multiple fluidsynth elements
running on the same Audio card, just like dsound does...
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Well, well, Graham, it gets more complicated every time.........
Wonder if I can get it running. I wonder, if there is any advantage in
running this WASAPI thing over regular ASIO ??
Anyhow, the list of magic shouts has been enlarged again.........
Do not expect from me, that I get this all up and running today!!
Thanks,
Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Geert,
There are now three PortAudio driver architectures available - WDMKS,
ASIO, and WASAPI
WDMKS and ASIO require a single instance of fluidsynth per audio
device (as they do no share an audio device)
WASAPI has a 'share device' mode and so can be used for multiple
fluidsynth instances on the same audio device.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Is that really true, Graham??
Its not so long ago, when we detected, that only the Focusrite was
able
Post by orgel jeux
Post by Graham Goode
to
Post by orgel jeux
do multiple instances of PortAudio ASIO........
Perhaps I was asleep when new developments took place.......??
Greetings,
Geert
Are you sure, Mezzo, that we can not get into trouble because you
seem
to
Post by orgel jeux
have used some commercial HW samples????
greetings,
Geert
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by orgel jeux
Post by Graham Goode
Post by orgel jeux
Post by orgel jeux
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Post by orgel jeux
Post by Graham Goode
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orgel jeux
2011-08-04 18:23:15 UTC
Permalink
Thanks, Graham, for this documentation.

I will give it a try.

Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Geert,
Dsound uses the older windows audio architecture that goes through
kmixer before communicating with the audio driver layer of windows and
this leads to higher latency.
WASAPI speaks directly to the audio driver layer of windows and
therefore has much less latency..
Applications communicate with the audio driver through Sessions, and
these Sessions are programmed through the Windows Audio Session API
(WASAPI). In general, WASAPI operates in two modes. In exclusive mode
(also called DMA mode), unmixed audio streams are rendered directly to
the audio adapter and no other application's audio will play and
signal processing has no effect. Exclusive mode is useful for
applications that demand the least amount of intermediate processing
of the audio data or those that want to output compressed audio data
such as Dolby Digital, DTS or WMA Pro over S/PDIF. WASAPI exclusive
mode is similar to kernel streaming in function, but no kernel mode
programming is required. In shared mode, audio streams are rendered by
the application and optionally applied per-stream audio effects known
as Local Effects (LFX) (such as per-session volume control). Then the
streams are mixed by the global audio engine, where a set of global
audio effects (GFX) may be applied. Finally, they're rendered on the
audio device.
The higher level APIs such as the Wavexxx APIs and DirectSound use
shared mode, which results in pre-mixed PCM audio that is sent to the
driver in a single format (in terms of sample rate, bit depth and
channel count). This format is configurable by the end user through
Control Panel.
After passing through WASAPI, all host-based audio processing,
including custom audio processing, can take place (sample rate
conversion, mixing, effects). Host-based processing modules are
referred to as Audio Processing Objects, or APOs. All these components
operate in user mode. The only portion of this architecture that runs
in kernel mode is the audio driver (which contains the Port Class
driver, the vendor Miniport driver and the vendor HAL). The Windows
Kernel Mixer (KMixer) is completely gone. There is no direct path from
DirectSound to the audio drivers; DirectSound and MME are emulated as
Session instances. Since the whole point of DirectSound acceleration
is to allow hardware to process unmixed audio content, DirectSound
cannot be accelerated in this audio model. APIs such as ASIO and
OpenAL are not affected.
If you can use the dsound driver and not experience noticeable
latency, then stick with it. If you are experiencing latency, give
WASAPI a try.
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Hi Graham,
I use convolution with HW, but I still have my Lexicon MX200, so I will
use
Post by orgel jeux
that in this situation.
Still no idea what advantage there is in WASAPI over dsound. Could you
explain??
Thanks,
Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Geert,
If you are wanting to use convolution reverb VSTs with jOrgan then
your only option is still the PortAudio ASIO driver - with the
limitation of only being able to have one fluidysnth instance. If,
however, you are content using the fluidsynth reverb, or your
Soundcard comes with a built in reverb, and you are running Vista or
Win7, then WASAPI will allow you to have multiple fluidsynth elements
running on the same Audio card, just like dsound does...
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Well, well, Graham, it gets more complicated every time.........
Wonder if I can get it running. I wonder, if there is any advantage in
running this WASAPI thing over regular ASIO ??
Anyhow, the list of magic shouts has been enlarged again.........
Do not expect from me, that I get this all up and running today!!
Thanks,
Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Geert,
There are now three PortAudio driver architectures available - WDMKS,
ASIO, and WASAPI
WDMKS and ASIO require a single instance of fluidsynth per audio
device (as they do no share an audio device)
WASAPI has a 'share device' mode and so can be used for multiple
fluidsynth instances on the same audio device.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Is that really true, Graham??
Its not so long ago, when we detected, that only the Focusrite was
able
Post by orgel jeux
Post by Graham Goode
to
Post by orgel jeux
do multiple instances of PortAudio ASIO........
Perhaps I was asleep when new developments took place.......??
Greetings,
Geert
Are you sure, Mezzo, that we can not get into trouble because you
seem
to
Post by orgel jeux
have used some commercial HW samples????
greetings,
Geert
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by orgel jeux
Post by Graham Goode
Post by orgel jeux
Post by Graham Goode
Post by orgel jeux
Post by orgel jeux
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by orgel jeux
Post by Graham Goode
Post by orgel jeux
Post by Graham Goode
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Post by Graham Goode
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1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Permalink
------=_NextPart_11080412522375018055004_002
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit

That would interest me, too.
Bernd.


----- Folgende Nachricht wurde empfangen -----


Absender: orgel jeux
Empfänger: jorgan-user
Zeit: 2011-08-04, 11:31:18
Betreff: Re: [jOrgan-user] Sharing my first organ ...
..
Are you sure, Mezzo, that we can not get into trouble because you seem to have used some commercial HW samples????

greetings,

Geert

------=_NextPart_11080412522375018055004_002
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<META name=GENERATOR
content="KsDHTMLEDLib.ocx, FreeWare HTML Editor 1.164.2, © Kurt Senfer">
<META content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type></HEAD>
<BODY style="FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" leftMargin=5
topMargin=5 #ffffff>
<DIV>That would interest me, too.</DIV>
<DIV>Bernd.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal">-----
Folgende Nachricht wurde empfangen ----- </DIV><BR>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; font-color: black"><B>Absender:</B>
<A href="mailto:***@gmail.com">orgel jeux</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><B>Empfänger:</B>
<A href="mailto:jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net">jorgan-user</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><B>Zeit:</B>
2011-08-04, 11:31:18</DIV>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><B>Betreff:</B>
Re: [jOrgan-user] Sharing my first organ ...</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>...</DIV>
<DIV>Are you sure, Mezzo, that we can not get into trouble because you seem to
have used some commercial HW
samples????<BR><BR>greetings,<BR><BR>Geert</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_11080412522375018055004_002--
Bernd Casper
2011-08-06 10:14:35 UTC
Permalink
orgel jeux
2011-08-06 17:39:59 UTC
Permalink
Agreed, Bernd, when you think about re-using recorded samples form others.
But of course we can use our own recorded samples as we wish......

Greetings,

Geert
Post by
Hello Davy.
After some days I've thought about your thingy, I decided to reply.
I thank you for the opportunity to download the disposition solely. So I
wasn't forced to download the soundfonts.
The jOrgan disposition itself is wonderful. That disposition I'd call a
"neo-symphonic french organ", a type of disposition build of Cavaillé-Colls
children-in-spirit in the time after 1920. It would be the absolutely
perfect organ for e. g. Olivier Messiaen's organ works, and much of other
contemporaries.
Regretfully I was not able to test your promising disposition with sound.
This implies that I couldn't test the new life-action mechanism you invented
- which would have been of the highest interest to me.
As your soundfonts contain re-engineered material which appears released
commercially and protected by special developed save algorithms, I'll not
download or use your sounds in any case.
Let me express that - after your release notes raised highest expectations
- this is a massive disappointment to me personally, since this is an
offense to anybody who downloads and uses the files without knowing the
licensing background, as well as it's not fair against the people who
release their own sound creations free to everybody. Also, this is not the
behaviour which equals your high level disposition development skills.
It must be said, that it is nearly the simplest thing in the world, to
re-engineer Hauptwerk samples for usage in a soundfonts - or to use recorded
samples at all. This is mostly C'n'P action. Such is far away from telling
about a "genius".
Having said this, I'm looking forward to a new release of your organ, with
a self-made original soundfonts not violating any licenses.
My naming proposal for this initial release is "Mezzo's Twin-Soul
Ambivalence French Neo-Symphonic".
Best
Bernd.
----- Folgende Nachricht wurde empfangen -----
*Zeit:* 2011-07-30, 14:15:04
*Betreff:* [jOrgan-user] Sharing my first organ ...
Hi all,
I'm delighted to present you my organ. I asked some questions recently, and
I finally was able to finish it.
- for the disposition: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/disposition.tar.gz
- for the soundfonts: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/grand-orgue.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/p%C3%A9dalier.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/positif.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/r%C3%A9cit.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/reverb.tar.gz
(I am using fluidsynth reverb to create the different sound levels, so you
will need one)
- synchronized
- configurable in pitch, volume, waveform
- always continues until the initial state after being deactivated
- no need to replay note
I also created a sort of *random detuning*. Don't worry, you can disable it
if prefer a "pure" but dead sound!
It is based on several switch filters (30 per keyboards!) but only 1 per
keyboard is used when a key is pressed. The switch filters represent a
sequence, there is thus 30 different states, each with a specific detuning.
I made it relatively light for the CPU: you have maximum 20 midi messages
when you press a key (not all the ranks are re-tuned at every key press).
Concerning the *registration* it's maybe a little experimental. I tried not
to have the same ranks in all the keyboards, having thus a great variety of
sounds. I create myself 3 ranks with some flutes or principals: ThšŠorbe
III,
Aliquot IV and Harmoniques II which can be used with reeds or a cornet (odd
harmonics).
Try it, and just tell me how to call my organ! I don't have inspiration for
that.
And of course, remarks are welcome.
Enjoy
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Sharing-my-first-organ-tp3706210p3706210.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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orgel jeux
2011-08-06 17:45:41 UTC
Permalink
Forgot something.

When one likes to set up his own disposition (ODF in HW language) using the
samples that he got by paying for them, he is totally rightful in doing
that.
In fact people do that already.

But that has noting to do with jOrgan, although some people use jORgan as a
front-end for the disposition "glued" together in that way.

And of course these dispositions would in most cases not be very close to
any real-world isntrument, and cannot be used to distribute to others.

In fact I do not see any advantage at all in doing so, as there are so many
good samplesets available for every era of organ-works.

Greetings,

Geert
Post by orgel jeux
Agreed, Bernd, when you think about re-using recorded samples form
others. But of course we can use our own recorded samples as we wish......
Greetings,
Geert
Post by
Hello Davy.
After some days I've thought about your thingy, I decided to reply.
I thank you for the opportunity to download the disposition solely. So I
wasn't forced to download the soundfonts.
The jOrgan disposition itself is wonderful. That disposition I'd call a
"neo-symphonic french organ", a type of disposition build of Cavaillé-Colls
children-in-spirit in the time after 1920. It would be the absolutely
perfect organ for e. g. Olivier Messiaen's organ works, and much of other
contemporaries.
Regretfully I was not able to test your promising disposition with sound.
This implies that I couldn't test the new life-action mechanism you invented
- which would have been of the highest interest to me.
As your soundfonts contain re-engineered material which appears released
commercially and protected by special developed save algorithms, I'll not
download or use your sounds in any case.
Let me express that - after your release notes raised highest expectations
- this is a massive disappointment to me personally, since this is an
offense to anybody who downloads and uses the files without knowing the
licensing background, as well as it's not fair against the people who
release their own sound creations free to everybody. Also, this is not the
behaviour which equals your high level disposition development skills.
It must be said, that it is nearly the simplest thing in the world, to
re-engineer Hauptwerk samples for usage in a soundfonts - or to use recorded
samples at all. This is mostly C'n'P action. Such is far away from telling
about a "genius".
Having said this, I'm looking forward to a new release of your organ, with
a self-made original soundfonts not violating any licenses.
My naming proposal for this initial release is "Mezzo's Twin-Soul
Ambivalence French Neo-Symphonic".
Best
Bernd.
----- Folgende Nachricht wurde empfangen -----
*Zeit:* 2011-07-30, 14:15:04
*Betreff:* [jOrgan-user] Sharing my first organ ...
Hi all,
I'm delighted to present you my organ. I asked some questions recently, and
I finally was able to finish it.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/disposition.tar.gz
- for the soundfonts: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/grand-orgue.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/p%C3%A9dalier.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/positif.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/r%C3%A9cit.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/reverb.tar.gz
(I am using fluidsynth reverb to create the different sound levels, so you
will need one)
- synchronized
- configurable in pitch, volume, waveform
- always continues until the initial state after being deactivated
- no need to replay note
I also created a sort of *random detuning*. Don't worry, you can disable it
if prefer a "pure" but dead sound!
It is based on several switch filters (30 per keyboards!) but only 1 per
keyboard is used when a key is pressed. The switch filters represent a
sequence, there is thus 30 different states, each with a specific detuning.
I made it relatively light for the CPU: you have maximum 20 midi messages
when you press a key (not all the ranks are re-tuned at every key press).
Concerning the *registration* it's maybe a little experimental. I tried not
to have the same ranks in all the keyboards, having thus a great variety of
sounds. I create myself 3 ranks with some flutes or principals: ThšŠorbe
III,
Aliquot IV and Harmoniques II which can be used with reeds or a cornet (odd
harmonics).
Try it, and just tell me how to call my organ! I don't have inspiration for
that.
And of course, remarks are welcome.
Enjoy
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Sharing-my-first-organ-tp3706210p3706210.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Bernd Casper
2011-08-06 18:49:16 UTC
Permalink
DellAnderson
2011-08-08 23:53:29 UTC
Permalink
Thank you for your clear statements, Bernd. I agree with your assessment
and the risk to jOrgan from this kind of dark grey to black market sharing.
You were more diplomatic than I. Call me old fashioned, but I have the
highest respect for those creative souls who spend the time, money, and
energy to record and create their own samples or negotiate their use above
board. I am glad I did not download this disposition out of my ignorance.

--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Sharing-my-first-organ-tp3706210p3728633.html
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John Reimer
2011-08-09 02:36:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by DellAnderson
I am glad I did not download this disposition out of my ignorance.
While Bernd rightly praised the achievement represented in Davy's
disposition, it is only fair to point out that some of us downloaded the
organ and expressed early admiration BEFORE we knew the source of some of
the samples. Bernd has done us all (including Davy, I believe) a favour, in
bringing the matter out into the open.

John Reimer

--
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David Gritter
2011-08-09 02:51:41 UTC
Permalink
I have posted the files for my linuxsampler version of the Burea church
organ, together with a brief pdf user guide with the license and
attributions. The implementation includes release tails with some level
of reverb

Also included there is my linux organ guide in pdf format, and some
pictures of my organ console and electronics. Here are the links, which
will expire aug 28

Dave Gritter
Milwaukee WI

09af9ac6a200224d79145989ea12a8107f49e6b7f8965fd24d8e1634cd3cf0ef
/bureaHV.gx01 619.1MB 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/09af9ac6a200224d79145989ea12a8107f49e6b7f8965fd24d8e1634cd3cf0ef.html
)
098077bf2c6d30b7e78efcaba29dc45c36707478395b40a896f1b95b1ae5cd39
/burea linuxsampler for jorgan.pdf 743.2K 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/098077bf2c6d30b7e78efcaba29dc45c36707478395b40a896f1b95b1ae5cd39.html
)
47089c7ade1a82010523f81b3261b9b992b0b732db099d4b145773858eddfd58
/BureaPED.gig 807.9K 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/47089c7ade1a82010523f81b3261b9b992b0b732db099d4b145773858eddfd58.html
)
008611992c99ddc8b18fa1a02ff14cfa9b6aca2411eecbbf68caba201364c39c
/detail of computer.JPG 5.6MB 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/008611992c99ddc8b18fa1a02ff14cfa9b6aca2411eecbbf68caba201364c39c.html
)
13e8d3d98d6930d4b1ba999ad3b660f4e4b62eecaaae4a1f1c222b2296d6709c
/original analog sound.JPG 58.1K 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/13e8d3d98d6930d4b1ba999ad3b660f4e4b62eecaaae4a1f1c222b2296d6709c.html
)
c6b3b3e26f1dabdc1102e9c694b89259bf990c482644ccf0c87df2177a73a6cc
/bureaHV.gig 1.2MB 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/c6b3b3e26f1dabdc1102e9c694b89259bf990c482644ccf0c87df2177a73a6cc.html
)
30beec2cfc9dce856f10df80fceb5f23a1cea161618047b2e9a5cd8ce22486b2
/console.JPG 410.3K 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/30beec2cfc9dce856f10df80fceb5f23a1cea161618047b2e9a5cd8ce22486b2.html
)
e66849144cd28d1fe4f51fd4e2464b16752343bb2aa2eddd4c1656f62d265906
/linuxjorganguide.pdf 1.5MB 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/e66849144cd28d1fe4f51fd4e2464b16752343bb2aa2eddd4c1656f62d265906.html
)
3a6bc0459b249ce4019c30e0057fd125843a7f1b73f171eebcd37fd4151dd46e
/BureaSV.gig 1.4MB 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/3a6bc0459b249ce4019c30e0057fd125843a7f1b73f171eebcd37fd4151dd46e.html
)
3e89acd565cbd0712809d09c1c75ad5c1023147cd25f3a1994da56f1ecab2de5
/BureaPED.gx01 391MB 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/3e89acd565cbd0712809d09c1c75ad5c1023147cd25f3a1994da56f1ecab2de5.html
)
b9c51658bb7f3329d0dcdcf5ed25503ba883e2c2d3990221146cc2705c72ef67
/BureaPOS.gig 1MB 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/b9c51658bb7f3329d0dcdcf5ed25503ba883e2c2d3990221146cc2705c72ef67.html
)
f7d2fd50fd7f42f2edbf17261e70cc2a494f21ca825db6def9787ea0f0ab14e6
/burea.lscp 14.3K 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/f7d2fd50fd7f42f2edbf17261e70cc2a494f21ca825db6def9787ea0f0ab14e6.html
)
0bdf9c498816d200b85f5586c93f48a37e5eecdc40f213108aaa35e058cc9872
/computer and amplifiers.JPG 5.4MB 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/0bdf9c498816d200b85f5586c93f48a37e5eecdc40f213108aaa35e058cc9872.html
)
f24ad3d2d4247e639f6597de9cca9423f72ee35c9e1570d122dbc977b5327e0b
/BureaPOS.gx01 442.3MB 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/f24ad3d2d4247e639f6597de9cca9423f72ee35c9e1570d122dbc977b5327e0b.html
)
8e645919af13a3b15ca1b7201ecfc5479f1a538bcb2b14194ca38ef7639b7fe6
/BureaSV.gx01 647.7MB 2011-08-22
(
http://www.adrive.com/public/8e645919af13a3b15ca1b7201ecfc5479f1a538bcb2b14194ca38ef7639b7fe6.html
)
Graham Goode
2011-08-09 16:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Hi David,

Thanks for posting these links and the information about your use of
the Burea Church samples.

One quick question - why does the total size of what you have posted
come to just over 2.1 Gigs worth of data? Did you not use the
'compress samples' feature of the GIG sample format? (I can't remember
if Gigedit has this option, I know the original GigaStudio Editor
did...).

The sound that you get from these samples coupled with the convolution
reverb should be wonderful :)

Kind regards,
GrahamG
David Gritter
2011-08-09 23:31:07 UTC
Permalink
I created the files in the GigaStudio editor, but if I try to compress
the 16 bit samples, I am only successful on 31/960 samples. About half,
presumably the release samples, are to short to compress. The remainder
are reported as uncompressable because of the looping.
Post by Graham Goode
Hi David,
Thanks for posting these links and the information about your use of
the Burea Church samples.
One quick question - why does the total size of what you have posted
come to just over 2.1 Gigs worth of data? Did you not use the
'compress samples' feature of the GIG sample format? (I can't remember
if Gigedit has this option, I know the original GigaStudio Editor
did...).
The sound that you get from these samples coupled with the convolution
reverb should be wonderful :)
Kind regards,
GrahamG
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------=_NextPart_11080612141939022624733_002
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Hello Davy.

After some days I've thought about your thingy, I decided to reply.

I thank you for the opportunity to download the disposition solely. So I wasn't forced to download the soundfonts.

The jOrgan disposition itself is wonderful. That disposition I'd call a "neo-symphonic french organ", a type of disposition build of Cavaillé-Colls children-in-spirit in the time after 1920. It would be the absolutely perfect organ for e. g. Olivier Messiaen's organ works, and much of other contemporaries.

Regretfully I was not able to test your promising disposition with sound. This implies that I couldn't test the new life-action mechanism you invented - which would have been of the highest interest to me.

As your soundfonts contain re-engineered material which appears released commercially and protected by special developed save algorithms, I'll not download or use your sounds in any case.

Let me express that - after your release notes raised highest expectations - this is a massive disappointment to me personally, since this is an offense to anybody who downloads and uses the files without knowing the licensing background, as well as it's not fair against the people who release their own sound creations free to everybody. Also, this is not the behaviour which equals your high level disposition development skills.

It must be said, that it is nearly the simplest thing in the world, to re-engineer Hauptwerk samples for usage in a soundfonts - or to use recorded samples at all. This is mostly C'n'P action. Such is far away from telling about a "genius".

Having said this, I'm looking forward to a new release of your organ, with a self-made original soundfonts not violating any licenses.

My naming proposal for this initial release is "Mezzo's Twin-Soul Ambivalence French Neo-Symphonic".

Best
Bernd.
----- Folgende Nachricht wurde empfangen -----


Absender: mezzo
Empfänger: jorgan-user
Zeit: 2011-07-30, 14:15:04
Betreff: [jOrgan-user] Sharing my first organ ...
Hi all,

I'm delighted to present you my organ. I asked some questions recently, and
I finally was able to finish it.

The soundfounts are pretty heavy (361Mo in total). Here are the links:
- for the disposition: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/disposition.tar.gz
- for the soundfonts: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/grand-orgue.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/p%C3%A9dalier.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/positif.tar.gz
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/r%C3%A9cit.tar.gz

If you need an external reverb:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/reverb.tar.gz
(I am using fluidsynth reverb to create the different sound levels, so you
will need one)


In this disposition I worked on a new *tremulant*:
- synchronized
- configurable in pitch, volume, waveform
- always continues until the initial state after being deactivated
- no need to replay note

I also created a sort of *random detuning*. Don't worry, you can disable it
if prefer a "pure" but dead sound!
It is based on several switch filters (30 per keyboards!) but only 1 per
keyboard is used when a key is pressed. The switch filters represent a
sequence, there is thus 30 different states, each with a specific detuning.
I made it relatively light for the CPU: you have maximum 20 midi messages
when you press a key (not all the ranks are re-tuned at every key press).

Concerning the *registration* it's maybe a little experimental. I tried not
to have the same ranks in all the keyboards, having thus a great variety of
sounds. I create myself 3 ranks with some flutes or principals: Th¨¦orbe III,
Aliquot IV and Harmoniques II which can be used with reeds or a cornet (odd
harmonics).

Try it, and just tell me how to call my organ! I don't have inspiration for
that.

And of course, remarks are welcome.

Enjoy

--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Sharing-my-first-organ-tp3706210p3706210.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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_____________________ next part ______________________

Die Virendatenbank sind veraltet.
Von AVG yberpryft - www.avg.de
Version: 9.0.872 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2730 - Ausgabedatum: 03/08/10 09:34:00

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<META name=GENERATOR
content="KsDHTMLEDLib.ocx, FreeWare HTML Editor 1.164.2, © Kurt Senfer">
<META content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type></HEAD>
<BODY style="FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" leftMargin=5
topMargin=5 #ffffff>
<DIV>Hello Davy.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>After some days I've thought about your thingy, I decided to reply.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I thank you for the opportunity to download the disposition solely. So I
wasn't forced to download the soundfonts.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The jOrgan disposition itself is wonderful. That disposition I'd call a
"neo-symphonic french organ", a type of disposition build of Cavaillé-Colls
children-in-spirit in the time after 1920. It would be the absolutely perfect
organ for e. g. Olivier Messiaen's organ works, and much of other
contemporaries.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Regretfully I was not able to test your promising disposition with sound.
This implies that I couldn't test the new life-action mechanism you invented -
which would have been of the highest interest to me.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>As your soundfonts contain re-engineered material which appears released
commercially and protected by special developed save algorithms, I'll not
download or use your sounds in any case.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Let me express that - after your release notes raised highest expectations
- this is a massive disappointment to me personally, since this is an offense to
anybody who downloads and uses the files without knowing the licensing
background, as well as it's not fair against the people who release their own
sound creations free to everybody. Also, this is not the behaviour which equals
your high level disposition development skills.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It must be said, that it is nearly the simplest thing in the world, to
re-engineer Hauptwerk samples for usage in a soundfonts - or to use recorded
samples at all. This is mostly C'n'P action. Such is far away from telling about
a "genius".</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Having said this, I'm looking forward to a new release of your organ, with
a self-made original soundfonts not violating any licenses.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>My naming proposal for this initial release is "Mezzo's Twin-Soul
Ambivalence French Neo-Symphonic".</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Best</DIV>
<DIV>Bernd.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal">-----
Folgende Nachricht wurde empfangen ----- </DIV><BR>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; font-color: black"><B>Absender:</B>
<A href="mailto:***@hotmail.com">mezzo</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><B>Empfänger:</B>
<A href="mailto:jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net">jorgan-user</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><B>Zeit:</B>
2011-07-30, 14:15:04</DIV>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><B>Betreff:</B>
[jOrgan-user] Sharing my first organ ...</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Hi all,<BR><BR>I'm delighted to present you my organ. I asked some
questions recently, and<BR>I finally was able to finish it.<BR><BR>The
soundfounts are pretty heavy (361Mo in total). Here are the links:<BR>- for
the disposition: <A
href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/disposition.tar.gz">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/disposition.tar.gz</A><BR>-
for the soundfonts: <A
href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/grand-orgue.tar.gz">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/grand-orgue.tar.gz</A><BR><A
href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/p%C3%A9dalier.tar.gz">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/p%C3%A9dalier.tar.gz</A><BR><A
href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/positif.tar.gz">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/positif.tar.gz</A><BR><A
href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/r%C3%A9cit.tar.gz">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/r%C3%A9cit.tar.gz</A><BR><BR>If
you need an external reverb:<BR><A
href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/reverb.tar.gz">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36751422/reverb.tar.gz</A><BR>(I
am using fluidsynth reverb to create the different sound levels, so
you<BR>will need one)<BR><BR><BR>In this disposition I worked on a new
*tremulant*:<BR>- synchronized<BR>- configurable in pitch, volume,
waveform<BR>- always continues until the initial state after being
deactivated<BR>- no need to replay note<BR><BR>I also created a sort of
*random detuning*. Don't worry, you can disable it<BR>if prefer a "pure" but
dead sound!<BR>It is based on several switch filters (30 per keyboards!) but
only 1 per<BR>keyboard is used when a key is pressed. The switch filters
represent a<BR>sequence, there is thus 30 different states, each with a
specific detuning.<BR>I made it relatively light for the CPU: you have maximum
20 midi messages<BR>when you press a key (not all the ranks are re-tuned at
every key press).<BR><BR>Concerning the *registration* it's maybe a little
experimental. I tried not<BR>to have the same ranks in all the keyboards,
having thus a great variety of<BR>sounds. I create myself 3 ranks with some
flutes or principals: Th¨¦orbe III,<BR>Aliquot IV and Harmoniques II which can
be used with reeds or a cornet (odd<BR>harmonics).<BR><BR>Try it, and just
tell me how to call my organ! I don't have inspiration for<BR>that.<BR><BR>And
of course, remarks are welcome.<BR><BR>Enjoy<BR><BR>--<BR>View this message in
context: <A
href="http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Sharing-my-first-organ-tp3706210p3706210.html">http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Sharing-my-first-organ-tp3706210p3706210.html</A><BR>Sent
from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Got
Input? Slashdot Needs You.<BR>Take our quick survey online. Come on, we don't
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I think I spoke clearly.

Using self-recorded real samples (and to grant this extraordinary work to the community), is the only secure and necessary pre-requisite for releasing real-sample based jOrgan models with recorded samples in public. The other method is just to ask the creator of the samples for permission, to port the samples for soundfonts. GrahamG has performed this method in an extraordinary and meritional way, with Burea church.

It must be clear that careless releases like Mezzo's organ could force Sven to remove the FluidSynth extension and all depending dlls from jOrgan, in worst case - what had to be called a major backdraw.

It is astonishing that this must be explained.

Bernd.


----- Folgende Nachricht wurde empfangen -----


Absender: orgel jeux
Empfänger: jorgan-user
Zeit: 2011-08-06, 19:39:59
Betreff: Re: [jOrgan-user] Sharing my first organ ...
Agreed, Bernd, when you think about re-using recorded samples form others. But of course we can use our own recorded samples as we wish......

Greetings,

Geert

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<DIV>I think I spoke clearly.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Using self-recorded real samples (and to grant this extraordinary work to
the community), is the only secure and necessary pre-requisite for releasing
real-sample based&nbsp;jOrgan models with recorded samples in public. The other
method is just to ask the creator of the samples for permission, to&nbsp;port
the samples for soundfonts. GrahamG has performed this method in an
extraordinary and meritional way, with Burea church.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It must be clear that careless releases like Mezzo's organ could
force&nbsp;Sven to remove the FluidSynth extension and all depending dlls from
jOrgan, in worst case - what had to be called a major backdraw.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It is astonishing that this must be explained.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Bernd.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal">-----
Folgende Nachricht wurde empfangen ----- </DIV><BR>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; font-color: black"><B>Absender:</B>
<A href="mailto:***@gmail.com">orgel jeux</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><B>Empfänger:</B>
<A href="mailto:jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net">jorgan-user</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><B>Zeit:</B>
2011-08-06, 19:39:59</DIV>
<DIV
style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><B>Betreff:</B>
Re: [jOrgan-user] Sharing my first organ ...</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Agreed, Bernd, when you think about re-using recorded samples form
others.&nbsp;&nbsp; But of course we can use our own recorded samples as we
wish......<BR><BR>Greetings,<BR><BR>Geert</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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