Discussion:
Far fetched idea
(too old to reply)
Jonathan Aquilina
2011-04-17 09:34:46 UTC
Permalink
Hey guys outa curiosity and i know this would be a big undertaking, but
what about integrating features like viena has to offer as an sf2 editor
into jorgan?
Roy Radford
2011-04-17 10:10:26 UTC
Permalink
   OMG... Isn't this contraption complicated enough!  


       Have fun,

           Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com>
Subject: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 10:34

Hey guys outa curiosity and i know this would be a big undertaking, but
what about integrating features like viena has to offer as an sf2 editor
into jorgan?
Jonathan Aquilina
2011-04-17 11:41:54 UTC
Permalink
Roy i left it quite ambiguous and I apologies, When i hatched this idea
i was thinking for disposition developers it might be something useful
for them to have an all in one package so to speak.
Post by Roy Radford
OMG... Isn't this contraption complicated enough!
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 10:34
Hey guys outa curiosity and i know this would be a big
undertaking, but
what about integrating features like viena has to offer as an sf2 editor
into jorgan?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting
the value of server virtualization.
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John Beach
2011-04-17 11:45:28 UTC
Permalink
When you consider jOrgan versions, past and present, you already have many
of the features of Vienna SF Studio in jOrgan. Import Soundfont, Keyboard
Compass, historical tunings in Fluidsynth, reverb and chorus effects,
what other features of Vienna would benefit jOrgan? jOrgan is essentially
a MIDI relay program and Vienna is a Soundfont editor. The two are as
mutually exclusive as they are cooperative with jOrgan being able to
interface a Pipe Organ without any soundbank capability being involved.
What advantage is redundancy or duplication of capability?

John Beach

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Aquilina
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 5:34 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea

Hey guys outa curiosity and i know this would be a big undertaking, but
what about integrating features like viena has to offer as an sf2 editor
into jorgan?
Roy Radford
2011-04-17 11:51:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Jonathan,

                       Personally I would regard the manipulation of soundfonts as a distinct, highly skilled job of its own. I've never done it but I'm not sure whether there would be any real advantage in tacking it on to jOrgan itself.


      Have fun,

          Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 12:41






Roy i left it quite ambiguous and I apologies, When i hatched this
idea i was thinking for disposition developers it might be something
useful for them to have an all in one package so to speak.



On 4/17/11 12:10 PM, Roy Radford wrote:




   OMG... Isn't this
contraption complicated enough!  





       Have fun,



           Roy.





--- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com>
wrote:



From: Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com>

Subject: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea

To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 10:34



Hey guys outa curiosity and i
know this would be a big undertaking, but

what about integrating features like viena has to
offer as an sf2 editor

into jorgan?



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial
Workload

Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server
virtualization is a top

priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify
management, and improve

application availability and disaster protection.
Learn more about boosting

the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev

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Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
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priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev

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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Jonathan Aquilina
2011-04-17 14:27:12 UTC
Permalink
John and Roy

My reason for hatching this nutty idea is jorgan requires alot of
external programs to get things up and running. I was thinking why not
allow jorgan then to become a one stop shop to where the disposition
creator can go to do any soundfont editing and manipulation while
creating a new disposition.
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Jonathan,
Personally I would regard the manipulation of
soundfonts as a distinct, highly skilled job of its own. I've never
done it but I'm not sure whether there would be any real advantage in
tacking it on to jOrgan itself.
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 12:41
Roy i left it quite ambiguous and I apologies, When i hatched this
idea i was thinking for disposition developers it might be
something useful for them to have an all in one package so to speak.
Post by Roy Radford
OMG... Isn't this contraption complicated enough!
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 10:34
Hey guys outa curiosity and i know this would be a big
undertaking, but
what about integrating features like viena has to offer as an
sf2 editor
into jorgan?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify
management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more
about boosting
the value of server virtualization.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization.http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
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Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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John Beach
2011-04-17 21:26:49 UTC
Permalink
Jonathan, the fact is that jOrgan with Creative Sound is the easiest configuration of all the types of dispositions you can do with it. The reverb and chorus are in Creative Sound and don’t have to be created as with Fluidsynth elements. Its only limitation is a polyphony limitation and by using two instances of Creative Sound and both Synths A and B you can get 64-voice polyphony which is really good. Still not enough though, given 12 depressed keys and 15-20 stops requiring upwards of 240-voice polyphony. That is quite a demand. But good sound with a judicious choice of stops can be gotten with Creative Sound.

John B.

From: Jonathan Aquilina
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:27 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea

John and Roy

My reason for hatching this nutty idea is jorgan requires alot of external programs to get things up and running. I was thinking why not allow jorgan then to become a one stop shop to where the disposition creator can go to do any soundfont editing and manipulation while creating a new disposition.

On 4/17/11 1:51 PM, Roy Radford wrote:
Hi, Jonathan,

Personally I would regard the manipulation of soundfonts as a distinct, highly skilled job of its own. I've never done it but I'm not sure whether there would be any real advantage in tacking it on to jOrgan itself.


Have fun,

Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina mailto:***@gmail.com wrote:


From: Jonathan Aquilina mailto:***@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 12:41


Roy i left it quite ambiguous and I apologies, When i hatched this idea i was thinking for disposition developers it might be something useful for them to have an all in one package so to speak.

On 4/17/11 12:10 PM, Roy Radford wrote:
OMG... Isn't this contraption complicated enough!


Have fun,

Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=***@gmail.com wrote:


From: Jonathan Aquilina wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=***@gmail.com
Subject: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 10:34


Hey guys outa curiosity and i know this would be a big undertaking, but
what about integrating features like viena has to offer as an sf2 editor
into jorgan?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DellAnderson
2011-04-18 01:42:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Beach
Jonathan, the fact is that jOrgan with Creative Sound is the easiest
configuration of all the types of dispositions you can do with it. The
reverb and chorus are in Creative Sound and don’t have to be created as
with Fluidsynth elements. Its only limitation is a polyphony limitation
and by using two instances of Creative Sound and both Synths A and B you
can get 64-voice polyphony which is really good. Still not enough though,
given 12 depressed keys and 15-20 stops requiring upwards of 240-voice
polyphony. That is quite a demand. But good sound with a judicious
choice of stops can be gotten with Creative Sound.
John B.
John,

That may all be well and good, but there is just a small fly in the
ointment:
1) Try and find a PCI Creative Soundcard with hardware or at least the 64
voice polyphony that works well
2) And even better, find one that is compatible with Linux

If someone has suggestions that fit the above, I'm all ears!

best,

Dell

--
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Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
John Beach
2011-04-18 10:37:44 UTC
Permalink
I don't use Linux. I have both the SB Live! for a MIDI interface running
the KX Project drivers and an X-Fi Titanium running the Creative Drivers. I
could put speakers from both cards and port them both in jOrgan and have
64-channel capability, not sure what the total polyphony from such a setup
would be but I think it would handle most registrations without any
difficulty.
John

-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:42 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by John Beach
Jonathan, the fact is that jOrgan with Creative Sound is the easiest
configuration of all the types of dispositions you can do with it. The
reverb and chorus are in Creative Sound and don’t have to be created as
with Fluidsynth elements. Its only limitation is a polyphony limitation
and by using two instances of Creative Sound and both Synths A and B you
can get 64-voice polyphony which is really good. Still not enough though,
given 12 depressed keys and 15-20 stops requiring upwards of 240-voice
polyphony. That is quite a demand. But good sound with a judicious
choice of stops can be gotten with Creative Sound.
John B.
John,

That may all be well and good, but there is just a small fly in the
ointment:
1) Try and find a PCI Creative Soundcard with hardware or at least the 64
voice polyphony that works well
2) And even better, find one that is compatible with Linux

If someone has suggestions that fit the above, I'm all ears!

best,

Dell

--
View this message in context:
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3456423.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
DellAnderson
2011-04-18 18:38:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Aquilina
what about integrating features like viena has to offer as an sf2 editor
into jorgan?
Interesting idea, but not on my dream list, which would be more oriented
towards making jOrgan completely intuitive to set up and remove the need for
4 long PDF manuals and standing on head to configure (see below).

In my 15 years of computer experience, I have found that software programs
that attempt to be 'jack-of-all-trades' are 'master-of-none' and although it
would be wonderful if someone on this list was a master of sound font
editing, I would be greatly surprised to find one here, so the only legal
option would be grabbing someone else's open source project and rolling it
in, but would you really want to have to update jOrgan every time that a new
version of that open source software project came down the line? I can't
keep up now as it is, and I much prefer good clean modules that do what they
say they do - and very well.

This works for hardware too - seldom is a computer with integrated
audio/video, and RAID controller the best at any of this. Seldom is a
scanner which is a printer and fax machine as well the best of each, and
furthermore, if one of the components breaks or becomes obsolete, you have
to buy the whole kit and caboodle over, which is a waste of money and a
waste of natural resource and adds to the landfill....but I digress.

Back to jOrgan usability. I am so greatful for the geniuses here who make
it usable for me, but it is still a stretch, and I do not consider myself to
be all that computer ignorant. I won't list my accomplishments because
they pale in comparison to Sven and GrahamG and probably most other jOrgan
users here, but they are definitely well above the average musician (which
one would hope, is the person using this contraption!!)

So...I again was playing with the Christie disposition this morning on the
Puppy Distro. I found it so nice on my Windows XP computer, I wanted to
hear it played from my organ console which is in the other room and
connected to Linux Puppy rather than windows computer. This time, with
patience, I was able to get Christie to display (turns out that Puppy chose
the wrong video card, so I manually selected ATI and I was able to get both
a higher resolution screen AND the customize dialog to actually appear!!!).

I attempted to play the default midi file (Climb2.mid). This resulted in
the most interesting but WRONG notes....Thru trial and error, I discovered
it was playing nearly exactly 30 tones too low. I was barely able to
recognize the "Climb Every Mountain" tune, it was mushy and sounded like it
was played on the 32 foot stops! So with great patience, I manually
'transposed' each and every one of the 12 odd Fluidsynths UP 30 notes.
@Sven: Would it be possible to allow the customize settings to be 'live' so
we could test transpose settings without hitting 'finish' after each test?
It was quite tedious to 'transpose 12 -> Finished' - no, that's not it, then
'customize->transpose 15 - Finished', no that's not it, etc etc (comparing
to a similar stop on the regular organ - NOTE: I had used the 'record'
function to set up MIDI range, and it gave the same VERY LOW notes that the
RECORDER playback did (

Then, I tediously turned off reverb on each of the 12-15 odd fluidsynths,
this helped a little, but was not the real problem. Lag was present all
along but not that bad considering.

Never did get it to sound like it did on my single fluid synth ASIO version
on the Windows Computer (too quiet, not full and clear like the 'one fluid
synth' disposition, and also strongly panned right or left, many stops did
not seem to work right etc. I got very close, but realizing that this was
all a learning experience and would evaporate when I shut down the computer,
decided not to invest further time in.

Interestingly, some of the other dispositions work fine on Live CD, so I am
not sure what is going on (Christie doesn't take that much memory I guess as
it is packed in 4mb file).

Bottom line, audio apps are confusing enough without adding editing features
to the mix. However, I would love to have a free and excellent SF2 editor
as a stand alone package. I don't think this exists except for Viena.

best,

Dell



--
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Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Sven Meier
2011-04-18 18:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dell,
Post by DellAnderson
I attempted to play the default midi file (Climb2.mid).
did you use the jOrgan recorder for that?
Post by DellAnderson
I manually 'transposed' each and every one of the 12 odd Fluidsynths
UP 30 notes.

You mean you transposed the keyboard elements?
Post by DellAnderson
allow the customize settings to be 'live' so we could test transpose
settings
Post by DellAnderson
without hitting 'finish' after each test?
Regretfully this is not possible :(.
Post by DellAnderson
NOTE: I had used the 'record' function to set up MIDI range, and it
gave the
Post by DellAnderson
same VERY LOW notes that the RECORDER playback did.
Hm, from which Midi input did you record?

Regards

Sven
Post by DellAnderson
Post by Jonathan Aquilina
what about integrating features like viena has to offer as an sf2 editor
into jorgan?
Interesting idea, but not on my dream list, which would be more oriented
towards making jOrgan completely intuitive to set up and remove the need for
4 long PDF manuals and standing on head to configure (see below).
In my 15 years of computer experience, I have found that software programs
that attempt to be 'jack-of-all-trades' are 'master-of-none' and although it
would be wonderful if someone on this list was a master of sound font
editing, I would be greatly surprised to find one here, so the only legal
option would be grabbing someone else's open source project and rolling it
in, but would you really want to have to update jOrgan every time that a new
version of that open source software project came down the line? I can't
keep up now as it is, and I much prefer good clean modules that do what they
say they do - and very well.
This works for hardware too - seldom is a computer with integrated
audio/video, and RAID controller the best at any of this. Seldom is a
scanner which is a printer and fax machine as well the best of each, and
furthermore, if one of the components breaks or becomes obsolete, you have
to buy the whole kit and caboodle over, which is a waste of money and a
waste of natural resource and adds to the landfill....but I digress.
Back to jOrgan usability. I am so greatful for the geniuses here who make
it usable for me, but it is still a stretch, and I do not consider myself to
be all that computer ignorant. I won't list my accomplishments because
they pale in comparison to Sven and GrahamG and probably most other jOrgan
users here, but they are definitely well above the average musician (which
one would hope, is the person using this contraption!!)
So...I again was playing with the Christie disposition this morning on the
Puppy Distro. I found it so nice on my Windows XP computer, I wanted to
hear it played from my organ console which is in the other room and
connected to Linux Puppy rather than windows computer. This time, with
patience, I was able to get Christie to display (turns out that Puppy chose
the wrong video card, so I manually selected ATI and I was able to get both
a higher resolution screen AND the customize dialog to actually appear!!!).
I attempted to play the default midi file (Climb2.mid). This resulted in
the most interesting but WRONG notes....Thru trial and error, I discovered
it was playing nearly exactly 30 tones too low. I was barely able to
recognize the "Climb Every Mountain" tune, it was mushy and sounded like it
was played on the 32 foot stops! So with great patience, I manually
'transposed' each and every one of the 12 odd Fluidsynths UP 30 notes.
@Sven: Would it be possible to allow the customize settings to be 'live' so
we could test transpose settings without hitting 'finish' after each test?
It was quite tedious to 'transpose 12 -> Finished' - no, that's not it, then
'customize->transpose 15 - Finished', no that's not it, etc etc (comparing
to a similar stop on the regular organ - NOTE: I had used the 'record'
function to set up MIDI range, and it gave the same VERY LOW notes that the
RECORDER playback did (
Then, I tediously turned off reverb on each of the 12-15 odd fluidsynths,
this helped a little, but was not the real problem. Lag was present all
along but not that bad considering.
Never did get it to sound like it did on my single fluid synth ASIO version
on the Windows Computer (too quiet, not full and clear like the 'one fluid
synth' disposition, and also strongly panned right or left, many stops did
not seem to work right etc. I got very close, but realizing that this was
all a learning experience and would evaporate when I shut down the computer,
decided not to invest further time in.
Interestingly, some of the other dispositions work fine on Live CD, so I am
not sure what is going on (Christie doesn't take that much memory I guess as
it is packed in 4mb file).
Bottom line, audio apps are confusing enough without adding editing features
to the mix. However, I would love to have a free and excellent SF2 editor
as a stand alone package. I don't think this exists except for Viena.
best,
Dell
--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3458355.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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orgel jeux
2011-04-18 19:38:26 UTC
Permalink
Dell,

I could recognize myself very much in your story!

Apart from the wellknown troubles you describe, one thing interested me, and
that is the Christie.

I installed the latest version for 1 FS instance, but on Youtube i found a
much better soudning version, with much warmer and deeper trems and not that
hard panned L/R.

So could you ls tell me, which version, hopefully in Windows, you experience
as good sounding?/

greetings,

Geert
Post by Sven Meier
Hi Dell,
Post by DellAnderson
I attempted to play the default midi file (Climb2.mid).
did you use the jOrgan recorder for that?
Post by DellAnderson
I manually 'transposed' each and every one of the 12 odd Fluidsynths
UP 30 notes.
You mean you transposed the keyboard elements?
Post by DellAnderson
allow the customize settings to be 'live' so we could test transpose
settings
Post by DellAnderson
without hitting 'finish' after each test?
Regretfully this is not possible :(.
Post by DellAnderson
NOTE: I had used the 'record' function to set up MIDI range, and it
gave the
Post by DellAnderson
same VERY LOW notes that the RECORDER playback did.
Hm, from which Midi input did you record?
Regards
Sven
Post by DellAnderson
Post by Jonathan Aquilina
what about integrating features like viena has to offer as an sf2 editor
into jorgan?
Interesting idea, but not on my dream list, which would be more oriented
towards making jOrgan completely intuitive to set up and remove the need
for
Post by DellAnderson
4 long PDF manuals and standing on head to configure (see below).
In my 15 years of computer experience, I have found that software
programs
Post by DellAnderson
that attempt to be 'jack-of-all-trades' are 'master-of-none' and although
it
Post by DellAnderson
would be wonderful if someone on this list was a master of sound font
editing, I would be greatly surprised to find one here, so the only legal
option would be grabbing someone else's open source project and rolling
it
Post by DellAnderson
in, but would you really want to have to update jOrgan every time that a
new
Post by DellAnderson
version of that open source software project came down the line? I can't
keep up now as it is, and I much prefer good clean modules that do what
they
Post by DellAnderson
say they do - and very well.
This works for hardware too - seldom is a computer with integrated
audio/video, and RAID controller the best at any of this. Seldom is a
scanner which is a printer and fax machine as well the best of each, and
furthermore, if one of the components breaks or becomes obsolete, you
have
Post by DellAnderson
to buy the whole kit and caboodle over, which is a waste of money and a
waste of natural resource and adds to the landfill....but I digress.
Back to jOrgan usability. I am so greatful for the geniuses here who
make
Post by DellAnderson
it usable for me, but it is still a stretch, and I do not consider myself
to
Post by DellAnderson
be all that computer ignorant. I won't list my accomplishments because
they pale in comparison to Sven and GrahamG and probably most other
jOrgan
Post by DellAnderson
users here, but they are definitely well above the average musician
(which
Post by DellAnderson
one would hope, is the person using this contraption!!)
So...I again was playing with the Christie disposition this morning on
the
Post by DellAnderson
Puppy Distro. I found it so nice on my Windows XP computer, I wanted to
hear it played from my organ console which is in the other room and
connected to Linux Puppy rather than windows computer. This time, with
patience, I was able to get Christie to display (turns out that Puppy
chose
Post by DellAnderson
the wrong video card, so I manually selected ATI and I was able to get
both
Post by DellAnderson
a higher resolution screen AND the customize dialog to actually
appear!!!).
Post by DellAnderson
I attempted to play the default midi file (Climb2.mid). This resulted
in
Post by DellAnderson
the most interesting but WRONG notes....Thru trial and error, I
discovered
Post by DellAnderson
it was playing nearly exactly 30 tones too low. I was barely able to
recognize the "Climb Every Mountain" tune, it was mushy and sounded like
it
Post by DellAnderson
was played on the 32 foot stops! So with great patience, I manually
'transposed' each and every one of the 12 odd Fluidsynths UP 30 notes.
@Sven: Would it be possible to allow the customize settings to be 'live'
so
Post by DellAnderson
we could test transpose settings without hitting 'finish' after each
test?
Post by DellAnderson
It was quite tedious to 'transpose 12 -> Finished' - no, that's not it,
then
Post by DellAnderson
'customize->transpose 15 - Finished', no that's not it, etc etc
(comparing
Post by DellAnderson
to a similar stop on the regular organ - NOTE: I had used the 'record'
function to set up MIDI range, and it gave the same VERY LOW notes that
the
Post by DellAnderson
RECORDER playback did (
Then, I tediously turned off reverb on each of the 12-15 odd fluidsynths,
this helped a little, but was not the real problem. Lag was present all
along but not that bad considering.
Never did get it to sound like it did on my single fluid synth ASIO
version
Post by DellAnderson
on the Windows Computer (too quiet, not full and clear like the 'one
fluid
Post by DellAnderson
synth' disposition, and also strongly panned right or left, many stops
did
Post by DellAnderson
not seem to work right etc. I got very close, but realizing that this
was
Post by DellAnderson
all a learning experience and would evaporate when I shut down the
computer,
Post by DellAnderson
decided not to invest further time in.
Interestingly, some of the other dispositions work fine on Live CD, so I
am
Post by DellAnderson
not sure what is going on (Christie doesn't take that much memory I guess
as
Post by DellAnderson
it is packed in 4mb file).
Bottom line, audio apps are confusing enough without adding editing
features
Post by DellAnderson
to the mix. However, I would love to have a free and excellent SF2
editor
Post by DellAnderson
as a stand alone package. I don't think this exists except for Viena.
best,
Dell
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Post by DellAnderson
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by DellAnderson
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
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improve
Post by DellAnderson
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting
Post by DellAnderson
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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DellAnderson
2011-04-18 21:42:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by orgel jeux
So could you ls tell me, which version, hopefully in Windows, you
experience as good sounding?/
Hi Geert,

Good news! Yes, it is Windows version.
Bad news! I don't know if it is the same one you heard on YouTube (and
liked). However, this is my setup with which I would be more happy if it
were in the same room as my organ console!!

Basic system:
A) WinXP Pro 32bit 3.2ghz x2CPUs and a Creative E1371/E1373 series audio
card
B) Java 6 v24
jOrgan required software:
0) Asio4All
1) jOrgan 3.13-beta6
2) Portaudio extension for jOrgan (ASIO version, not WDMKS)
3) Christie313b6_singleFS01.disposition

I have uploaded #'s 0-3 here for your convenience:
http://www.anim8.com/organ/jOrgan/Christie_313/
http://www.anim8.com/organ/jOrgan/Christie_313/

Configured (advanced settings) in ASIO4All buffer size to 512, always
Resample to 48khz, and Force WDM driver to 16 bit, latency 32 samples (both
in and out) and unticked the Hardware buffer (off)

Hope that helps.

@Rick, if you have any problem with me posting this distribution and I will
take it down.




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Rick (greenfox)
2011-04-19 12:30:45 UTC
Permalink
No problem Dell.

Regards
Rick
Post by DellAnderson
Post by orgel jeux
So could you ls tell me, which version, hopefully in Windows, you
experience as good sounding?/
Hi Geert,
Good news! Yes, it is Windows version.
Bad news! I don't know if it is the same one you heard on YouTube (and
liked). However, this is my setup with which I would be more happy if it
were in the same room as my organ console!!
A) WinXP Pro 32bit 3.2ghz x2CPUs and a Creative E1371/E1373 series audio
card
B) Java 6 v24
0) Asio4All
1) jOrgan 3.13-beta6
2) Portaudio extension for jOrgan (ASIO version, not WDMKS)
3) Christie313b6_singleFS01.disposition
http://www.anim8.com/organ/jOrgan/Christie_313/
http://www.anim8.com/organ/jOrgan/Christie_313/
Configured (advanced settings) in ASIO4All buffer size to 512, always
Resample to 48khz, and Force WDM driver to 16 bit, latency 32 samples (both
in and out) and unticked the Hardware buffer (off)
Hope that helps.
@Rick, if you have any problem with me posting this distribution and I will
take it down.
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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DellAnderson
2011-04-18 21:08:29 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sven,

Thanks for your interest.
Post by Sven Meier
did you use the jOrgan recorder for that?
Yes. Playback mode only, from the default climb2.mid(?) MIDI file included
in GrahamG's Live CD.
Post by Sven Meier
You mean you transposed the keyboard elements?
I think so - whatever it is that is 'transposed' by the "Customize" dialog
(right under "Device")
Post by Sven Meier
allow the customize settings to be 'live' so we could test transpose
settings without hitting 'finish' after each test?
Regretfully this is not possible :(.

Was just a thought! Won't be so much an issue when the console
configuration is separated from the disposition configuration module! hint
hint ;-)
Post by Sven Meier
Hm, from which Midi input did you record?
Did not do any MIDI recording. Oh, you mean for setting the channels in the
customize dialog? I configured Device to my sound card, then hit "Record"
and played the bottom and top notes of the proper MIDI keyboard for the
division in question: Swell for Swell, Great for Great, Choir for Choir,
and Pedal for Pedal (1,2,3,4 respectively).

Further observations: I am beginning to suspect some strange sound card
configuration compatibility issue. I have tried loading other Live CD
dispositions, and they also sound extremely low and sluggish.

My theory - I wonder if the multiple Fluidsynths are sharing the same audio
card in real time, this dividing the frequency between them (in other words,
the frequency of the sample would be divided by the number of fluid synths).
Perhaps this set up permanently? I will do more testing later, but I know
the regular full Puppy Linux install worked fine, and I think even some of
the earlier dispositions on the Live CD, but somehow things became strange
over time...almost like playing in slow when recorded in high speed!

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Sven Meier
2011-04-19 17:39:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dell,
Post by DellAnderson
I think so - whatever it is that is 'transposed' by the "Customize"
dialog (right under "Device")

on the top of the dialog you'll find the following description:
"Choose device and transpose for each keyboard..."

So, you're transposing the keyboards.
Post by DellAnderson
Won't be so much an issue when the console configuration is separated
from the disposition
Post by DellAnderson
configuration module! hint hint ;-)
Got it ;).

Regards

Sven
Post by DellAnderson
Hi Sven,
Thanks for your interest.
Post by Sven Meier
did you use the jOrgan recorder for that?
Yes. Playback mode only, from the default climb2.mid(?) MIDI file included
in GrahamG's Live CD.
Post by Sven Meier
You mean you transposed the keyboard elements?
I think so - whatever it is that is 'transposed' by the "Customize" dialog
(right under "Device")
Post by Sven Meier
allow the customize settings to be 'live' so we could test transpose
settings without hitting 'finish' after each test?
Regretfully this is not possible :(.
Was just a thought! Won't be so much an issue when the console
configuration is separated from the disposition configuration module! hint
hint ;-)
Post by Sven Meier
Hm, from which Midi input did you record?
Did not do any MIDI recording. Oh, you mean for setting the channels in the
customize dialog? I configured Device to my sound card, then hit "Record"
and played the bottom and top notes of the proper MIDI keyboard for the
division in question: Swell for Swell, Great for Great, Choir for Choir,
and Pedal for Pedal (1,2,3,4 respectively).
Further observations: I am beginning to suspect some strange sound card
configuration compatibility issue. I have tried loading other Live CD
dispositions, and they also sound extremely low and sluggish.
My theory - I wonder if the multiple Fluidsynths are sharing the same audio
card in real time, this dividing the frequency between them (in other words,
the frequency of the sample would be divided by the number of fluid synths).
Perhaps this set up permanently? I will do more testing later, but I know
the regular full Puppy Linux install worked fine, and I think even some of
the earlier dispositions on the Live CD, but somehow things became strange
over time...almost like playing in slow when recorded in high speed!
--
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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Rick (greenfox)
2011-04-19 12:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Hello Dell

It seems like you are having some interesting adventures. I believe the
name badge on the version of jOrgan Christie that Graham included in the
Puppy distribution was V3.12 beta 4 d3, early December 2010. This was a
cutting edge development version at the time. I wanted to try having
each rank as a separate SF2 file. I agree, the fluidsynth settings were
tedious in that version.

At the time I had a number of comments as to how well it worked. Your
transposition problems seem very strange. Do other dispositions work ok
on that system?

My 5x Fluidsynth version is the best one to play at the moment
http://www.tosa-qld.org/VTPO/files/christie313b6_d12.zip (jOrgan 3.13
beta 6 or 7) you will need to use dsound in Windows.

Regards
Rick
Post by DellAnderson
Post by Jonathan Aquilina
what about integrating features like viena has to offer as an sf2 editor
into jorgan?
Interesting idea, but not on my dream list, which would be more oriented
towards making jOrgan completely intuitive to set up and remove the need for
4 long PDF manuals and standing on head to configure (see below).
In my 15 years of computer experience, I have found that software programs
that attempt to be 'jack-of-all-trades' are 'master-of-none' and although it
would be wonderful if someone on this list was a master of sound font
editing, I would be greatly surprised to find one here, so the only legal
option would be grabbing someone else's open source project and rolling it
in, but would you really want to have to update jOrgan every time that a new
version of that open source software project came down the line? I can't
keep up now as it is, and I much prefer good clean modules that do what they
say they do - and very well.
This works for hardware too - seldom is a computer with integrated
audio/video, and RAID controller the best at any of this. Seldom is a
scanner which is a printer and fax machine as well the best of each, and
furthermore, if one of the components breaks or becomes obsolete, you have
to buy the whole kit and caboodle over, which is a waste of money and a
waste of natural resource and adds to the landfill....but I digress.
Back to jOrgan usability. I am so greatful for the geniuses here who make
it usable for me, but it is still a stretch, and I do not consider myself to
be all that computer ignorant. I won't list my accomplishments because
they pale in comparison to Sven and GrahamG and probably most other jOrgan
users here, but they are definitely well above the average musician (which
one would hope, is the person using this contraption!!)
So...I again was playing with the Christie disposition this morning on the
Puppy Distro. I found it so nice on my Windows XP computer, I wanted to
hear it played from my organ console which is in the other room and
connected to Linux Puppy rather than windows computer. This time, with
patience, I was able to get Christie to display (turns out that Puppy chose
the wrong video card, so I manually selected ATI and I was able to get both
a higher resolution screen AND the customize dialog to actually appear!!!).
I attempted to play the default midi file (Climb2.mid). This resulted in
the most interesting but WRONG notes....Thru trial and error, I discovered
it was playing nearly exactly 30 tones too low. I was barely able to
recognize the "Climb Every Mountain" tune, it was mushy and sounded like it
was played on the 32 foot stops! So with great patience, I manually
'transposed' each and every one of the 12 odd Fluidsynths UP 30 notes.
@Sven: Would it be possible to allow the customize settings to be 'live' so
we could test transpose settings without hitting 'finish' after each test?
It was quite tedious to 'transpose 12 -> Finished' - no, that's not it, then
'customize->transpose 15 - Finished', no that's not it, etc etc (comparing
to a similar stop on the regular organ - NOTE: I had used the 'record'
function to set up MIDI range, and it gave the same VERY LOW notes that the
RECORDER playback did (
Then, I tediously turned off reverb on each of the 12-15 odd fluidsynths,
this helped a little, but was not the real problem. Lag was present all
along but not that bad considering.
Never did get it to sound like it did on my single fluid synth ASIO version
on the Windows Computer (too quiet, not full and clear like the 'one fluid
synth' disposition, and also strongly panned right or left, many stops did
not seem to work right etc. I got very close, but realizing that this was
all a learning experience and would evaporate when I shut down the computer,
decided not to invest further time in.
Interestingly, some of the other dispositions work fine on Live CD, so I am
not sure what is going on (Christie doesn't take that much memory I guess as
it is packed in 4mb file).
Bottom line, audio apps are confusing enough without adding editing features
to the mix. However, I would love to have a free and excellent SF2 editor
as a stand alone package. I don't think this exists except for Viena.
best,
Dell
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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DellAnderson
2011-04-20 03:01:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick (greenfox)
Hello Dell
It seems like you are having some interesting adventures. I believe the
name badge on the version of jOrgan Christie that Graham included in the
Puppy distribution was V3.12 beta 4 d3, early December 2010. This was a
cutting edge development version at the time. I wanted to try having
each rank as a separate SF2 file. I agree, the fluidsynth settings were
tedious in that version.
At the time I had a number of comments as to how well it worked. Your
transposition problems seem very strange. Do other dispositions work ok
on that system?
My 5x Fluidsynth version is the best one to play at the moment
http://www.tosa-qld.org/VTPO/files/christie313b6_d12.zip (jOrgan 3.13
beta 6 or 7) you will need to use dsound in Windows.
Thanks, Rick. Sorry I missed this post earlier in the deluge of email
(mixed in with many other posts containing dangling copies of copies of
copies of previous message!). I went back and checked some of the other
dispositions after having problems with Christie and ALL of them seemed to
be magically transposed into the basement, and it was not a pretty sound
either. I will have to explore more with what is going on. The
underlying system is fine and works well with fully installed Puppy so I
think I will use that rather than the LiveCD for the time being (although of
course I can't use your multi-synth latest version I presume). I'm sure
it is some wacky idiosyncrasy of my wimpy jOrgan computer, but it's kind of
a challenge to make nice organ music on a 1.7Ghz single processor.

@Geert - were you able to try the "warm" sounding Christie version I posted
on my website and compare?
Just curious

best,
Dell

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orgel jeux
2011-04-20 08:15:00 UTC
Permalink
Not yet, Dell; today other work has to be done, but tonight i will try.

I am really looking forward getting the Christie working to my
expectations.........

Greetings,

Geert
Post by DellAnderson
Post by Rick (greenfox)
Hello Dell
It seems like you are having some interesting adventures. I believe the
name badge on the version of jOrgan Christie that Graham included in the
Puppy distribution was V3.12 beta 4 d3, early December 2010. This was a
cutting edge development version at the time. I wanted to try having
each rank as a separate SF2 file. I agree, the fluidsynth settings were
tedious in that version.
At the time I had a number of comments as to how well it worked. Your
transposition problems seem very strange. Do other dispositions work ok
on that system?
My 5x Fluidsynth version is the best one to play at the moment
http://www.tosa-qld.org/VTPO/files/christie313b6_d12.zip (jOrgan 3.13
beta 6 or 7) you will need to use dsound in Windows.
Thanks, Rick. Sorry I missed this post earlier in the deluge of email
(mixed in with many other posts containing dangling copies of copies of
copies of previous message!). I went back and checked some of the other
dispositions after having problems with Christie and ALL of them seemed to
be magically transposed into the basement, and it was not a pretty sound
either. I will have to explore more with what is going on. The
underlying system is fine and works well with fully installed Puppy so I
think I will use that rather than the LiveCD for the time being (although of
course I can't use your multi-synth latest version I presume). I'm sure
it is some wacky idiosyncrasy of my wimpy jOrgan computer, but it's kind of
a challenge to make nice organ music on a 1.7Ghz single processor.
@Geert - were you able to try the "warm" sounding Christie version I posted
on my website and compare?
Just curious
best,
Dell
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
DellAnderson
2011-04-18 18:44:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Beach
I don't use Linux. I have both the SB Live! for a MIDI interface running
the KX Project drivers and an X-Fi Titanium running the Creative Drivers.
I
could put speakers from both cards and port them both in jOrgan and have
64-channel capability, not sure what the total polyphony from such a setup
would be but I think it would handle most registrations without any
difficulty.
John
Granted, Linux is not for everyone, but I find Linux compatibility more or
less1 an indicator of 'standardness' (Linux tends to avoid super specialized
and rare hardware).

Which SB Live! model to you have? I can't seem to find ANY with MIDI
interface currently. I have had several Creative cards over the years,
even back to ISA days, but it is HARD to find them with MIDI ports now.

best,
Dell

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John Beach
2011-04-18 21:54:21 UTC
Permalink
SB Live! 5.1 SB0100 Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a MIDI/Gameport
connector. And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com. There are always Creative soundcards available there. I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:44 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by John Beach
I don't use Linux. I have both the SB Live! for a MIDI interface running
the KX Project drivers and an X-Fi Titanium running the Creative Drivers.
I
could put speakers from both cards and port them both in jOrgan and have
64-channel capability, not sure what the total polyphony from such a setup
would be but I think it would handle most registrations without any
difficulty.
John
Granted, Linux is not for everyone, but I find Linux compatibility more or
less1 an indicator of 'standardness' (Linux tends to avoid super specialized
and rare hardware).

Which SB Live! model to you have? I can't seem to find ANY with MIDI
interface currently. I have had several Creative cards over the years,
even back to ISA days, but it is HARD to find them with MIDI ports now.

best,
Dell

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DellAnderson
2011-04-19 01:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Beach
SB Live! 5.1 SB0100 Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector. And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com. There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,

I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here. I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100. There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!

Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).

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John Beach
2011-04-19 02:43:22 UTC
Permalink
Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi. It is the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And there is a download for the installation zip file.

John
-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by John Beach
SB Live! 5.1 SB0100 Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector. And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com. There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,

I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here. I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100. There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!

Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).

--
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Tom Karches
2011-04-20 13:02:56 UTC
Permalink
John,

When you say "Creative Sound", I presume that you mean a single Sound
Blaster card under some version of Windows, using the drivers from
Creative? If not, please clarify.

Thanks,
Tom
Jonathan, the fact is that jOrgan with Creative Sound is the easiest configuration of all the types of dispositions you can do with it.  The reverb and chorus are in Creative Sound and don’t have to be created as with Fluidsynth elements.  Its only limitation is a polyphony limitation and by using two instances of Creative Sound and both Synths A and B  you can get 64-voice polyphony which is really good.  Still not enough though, given 12 depressed keys and 15-20 stops  requiring upwards of 240-voice polyphony.  That is quite a demand.  But good sound with a judicious choice of stops can be gotten with Creative Sound.
John B.
--
Tom Karches
***@gmail.com
John Beach
2011-04-20 15:44:24 UTC
Permalink
Tom, yes, that is what I mean. If you have more than one Creative
Soundcard on a PC you have to use the KX Project drivers on one of those
cards and that card has to be
of a type before X-Fi, that is, either an Audigy or an SB Live!

I should not have used the term "Creative Sound" as that is really the term
used in jOrgan to differentiate it from "Fluidsynth Sound."

John B.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Karches
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:02 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea

John,

When you say "Creative Sound", I presume that you mean a single Sound
Blaster card under some version of Windows, using the drivers from
Creative? If not, please clarify.

Thanks,
Tom
Post by John Beach
Jonathan, the fact is that jOrgan with Creative Sound is the easiest
configuration of all the types of dispositions you can do with it. The
reverb and chorus are in Creative Sound and don’t have to be created as
with Fluidsynth elements. Its only limitation is a polyphony limitation
and by using two instances of Creative Sound and both Synths A and B you
can get 64-voice polyphony which is really good. Still not enough though,
given 12 depressed keys and 15-20 stops requiring upwards of 240-voice
polyphony. That is quite a demand. But good sound with a judicious
choice of stops can be gotten with Creative Sound.
John B.
--
Tom Karches
***@gmail.com
John Beach
2011-04-20 15:45:54 UTC
Permalink
By the way, this thread is so old now, does anybody remember what the
original "Far Fetched Idea" was? Just checking. My short term memory
problem is working again.

John B.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Karches
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:02 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Roy Radford
2011-04-17 15:03:15 UTC
Permalink
It seems to me that jOrgan fans divide into two fairly watertight boxes, the technical guy's whose main interest is in the detailed nuts and bolts, and those who just want a Miditzer-style application to plug in and play.

   Of course, with the likes of Graham and Rick providing complete systems that work out of the box, or even run from a USB stick (Never did get that to go, must get back on it sometime... Not that I need a portable organ but it's all good fun!) we can have the best of both worlds.

    I still think those who can sample real organs and edit soundfonts properly are pretty much a third and very highly skilled group!

     Have fun,

          Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 15:27






John and Roy



My reason for hatching this nutty idea is jorgan requires alot of
external programs to get things up and running. I was thinking why
not allow jorgan then to become a one stop shop to where the
disposition creator can go to do any soundfont editing and
manipulation while creating a new disposition.



On 4/17/11 1:51 PM, Roy Radford wrote:




Hi, Jonathan,



                       Personally I would regard the
manipulation of soundfonts as a distinct, highly skilled
job of its own. I've never done it but I'm not sure
whether there would be any real advantage in tacking it on
to jOrgan itself.





      Have fun,



          Roy.





--- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com>
wrote:



From: Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea

To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 12:41



Roy i left it quite ambiguous
and I apologies, When i hatched this idea i was
thinking for disposition developers it might be
something useful for them to have an all in one
package so to speak.



On 4/17/11 12:10 PM, Roy Radford wrote:




  
OMG... Isn't this contraption complicated
enough!  





       Have fun,



           Roy.





--- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com>
wrote:



From: Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com>

Subject: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea

To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 10:34



Hey
guys outa curiosity and i know this
would be a big undertaking, but

what about integrating features like
viena has to offer as an sf2 editor

into jorgan?



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Jonathan Aquilina
2011-04-17 15:12:42 UTC
Permalink
That is my issue im more of the technical side of things, and im very
technically minded with great eye for detail. Hence all these crazy
ideas i come up with.

It is the people with said crazy ideas that help to move technology and
software forward.

I would like to hear sven's feedback on this idea.
Post by Roy Radford
It seems to me that jOrgan fans divide into two fairly watertight
boxes, the technical guy's whose main interest is in the detailed nuts
and bolts, and those who just want a Miditzer-style application to
plug in and play.
Of course, with the likes of Graham and Rick providing complete
systems that work out of the box, or even run from a USB stick (Never
did get that to go, must get back on it sometime... Not that I need a
portable organ but it's all good fun!) we can have the best of both
worlds.
I still think those who can sample real organs and edit soundfonts
properly are pretty much a third and very highly skilled group!
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 15:27
John and Roy
My reason for hatching this nutty idea is jorgan requires alot of
external programs to get things up and running. I was thinking why
not allow jorgan then to become a one stop shop to where the
disposition creator can go to do any soundfont editing and
manipulation while creating a new disposition.
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Jonathan,
Personally I would regard the manipulation
of soundfonts as a distinct, highly skilled job of its own. I've
never done it but I'm not sure whether there would be any real
advantage in tacking it on to jOrgan itself.
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 12:41
Roy i left it quite ambiguous and I apologies, When i hatched
this idea i was thinking for disposition developers it might
be something useful for them to have an all in one package so
to speak.
Post by Roy Radford
OMG... Isn't this contraption complicated enough!
Have fun,
Roy.
--- On *Sun, 17/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina
Subject: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 10:34
Hey guys outa curiosity and i know this would be a big
undertaking, but
what about integrating features like viena has to offer
as an sf2 editor
into jorgan?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Sven Meier
2011-04-17 17:20:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jonathan,

a Soundfont editor would be a huge undertaking.

Note that there's already a free tool available:

http://www.swamiproject.org/

It's developed by one of the Fluidsynth developers and it seems he has
been very active lately.

Best regards

Sven
Post by Jonathan Aquilina
That is my issue im more of the technical side of things, and im very
technically minded with great eye for detail. Hence all these crazy
ideas i come up with.
It is the people with said crazy ideas that help to move technology
and software forward.
I would like to hear sven's feedback on this idea.
Post by Roy Radford
It seems to me that jOrgan fans divide into two fairly watertight
boxes, the technical guy's whose main interest is in the detailed
nuts and bolts, and those who just want a Miditzer-style application
to plug in and play.
Of course, with the likes of Graham and Rick providing complete
systems that work out of the box, or even run from a USB stick (Never
did get that to go, must get back on it sometime... Not that I need a
portable organ but it's all good fun!) we can have the best of both
worlds.
I still think those who can sample real organs and edit
soundfonts properly are pretty much a third and very highly skilled
group!
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 15:27
John and Roy
My reason for hatching this nutty idea is jorgan requires alot of
external programs to get things up and running. I was thinking
why not allow jorgan then to become a one stop shop to where the
disposition creator can go to do any soundfont editing and
manipulation while creating a new disposition.
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Jonathan,
Personally I would regard the
manipulation of soundfonts as a distinct, highly skilled job of
its own. I've never done it but I'm not sure whether there would
be any real advantage in tacking it on to jOrgan itself.
Have fun,
Roy.
--- On *Sun, 17/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 12:41
Roy i left it quite ambiguous and I apologies, When i
hatched this idea i was thinking for disposition developers
it might be something useful for them to have an all in one
package so to speak.
Post by Roy Radford
OMG... Isn't this contraption complicated enough!
Have fun,
Roy.
--- On *Sun, 17/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina
Subject: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 10:34
Hey guys outa curiosity and i know this would be a big
undertaking, but
what about integrating features like viena has to offer
as an sf2 editor
into jorgan?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial
Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server
virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify
management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn
more about boosting
the value of server virtualization.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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Jonathan Aquilina
2011-04-17 18:24:36 UTC
Permalink
Sven i understand it will be a big undertaking, what flusters me is the
amount of programs one needs to run jorgan to be honest flusters me. I
have been blessed with getting an amazing keyboard which eliminates the
need for any programs that are used.
Post by Sven Meier
Hi Jonathan,
a Soundfont editor would be a huge undertaking.
http://www.swamiproject.org/
It's developed by one of the Fluidsynth developers and it seems he has
been very active lately.
Best regards
Sven
Post by Jonathan Aquilina
That is my issue im more of the technical side of things, and im very
technically minded with great eye for detail. Hence all these crazy
ideas i come up with.
It is the people with said crazy ideas that help to move technology
and software forward.
I would like to hear sven's feedback on this idea.
Post by Roy Radford
It seems to me that jOrgan fans divide into two fairly watertight
boxes, the technical guy's whose main interest is in the detailed
nuts and bolts, and those who just want a Miditzer-style application
to plug in and play.
Of course, with the likes of Graham and Rick providing complete
systems that work out of the box, or even run from a USB stick
(Never did get that to go, must get back on it sometime... Not that
I need a portable organ but it's all good fun!) we can have the best
of both worlds.
I still think those who can sample real organs and edit
soundfonts properly are pretty much a third and very highly skilled
group!
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 15:27
John and Roy
My reason for hatching this nutty idea is jorgan requires alot
of external programs to get things up and running. I was
thinking why not allow jorgan then to become a one stop shop to
where the disposition creator can go to do any soundfont editing
and manipulation while creating a new disposition.
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Jonathan,
Personally I would regard the
manipulation of soundfonts as a distinct, highly skilled job of
its own. I've never done it but I'm not sure whether there
would be any real advantage in tacking it on to jOrgan itself.
Have fun,
Roy.
--- On *Sun, 17/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 12:41
Roy i left it quite ambiguous and I apologies, When i
hatched this idea i was thinking for disposition developers
it might be something useful for them to have an all in one
package so to speak.
Post by Roy Radford
OMG... Isn't this contraption complicated enough!
Have fun,
Roy.
--- On *Sun, 17/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina
Subject: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 10:34
Hey guys outa curiosity and i know this would be a big
undertaking, but
what about integrating features like viena has to
offer as an sf2 editor
into jorgan?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial
Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server
virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify
management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection.
Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
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priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
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Roy Radford
2011-04-18 23:58:14 UTC
Permalink
Hi, John,

              Confirmed, the going rate seems to be about £6 to £10 for ones based in UK, I've just grabbed one at £6 + £1 pp. to play with. This was a one off, but there's at least one other guy with 10+ on offer.

   Of course, I still have to find out whether it works in Ubuntu. If (long) past experience is anything to go by it will work as a basic soundcard but not load soundfonts, which defeats the main purpose of the exercise.

    Still, never mind, I also have a couple of computers running XP Pro. (A foot in each camp, remember?   )

     Most S/H cards come without drivers but they say you can download them. I wonder whether EAX is included as it was with the Live! 24.


    Thanks for the tip!

    Have fun,

       Roy.


--- On Mon, 18/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:

From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 22:54

SB Live! 5.1  SB0100  Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a MIDI/Gameport
connector.  And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com.  There are always Creative soundcards available there.  I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:44 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
I don't use Linux.  I have both the SB Live! for a MIDI interface running
the KX Project drivers and an X-Fi Titanium running the Creative Drivers.
I
could put speakers from both cards and port them both in jOrgan and have
64-channel capability, not sure what the total polyphony from such a setup
would be but I think it would handle most registrations without any
difficulty.
John
Granted, Linux is not for everyone, but I find Linux compatibility more or
less1 an indicator of 'standardness' (Linux tends to avoid super specialized
and rare hardware).

Which SB Live! model to you have?   I can't seem to find ANY with MIDI
interface currently.   I have had several Creative cards over the years,
even back to ISA days, but it is HARD to find them with MIDI ports now.

best,
Dell

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John Beach
2011-04-19 00:22:57 UTC
Permalink
Roy, you should be able to use either the KX Project drivers or go to Creative Labs website and click “support” and the appropriate Icon for the soundcard you have. Underneath them you will find a link in very small lettering saying “If your product is not listed above, click here. That will give you a choice of older soundcards for which there is support and all the drivers and firmware to go with them. If Creative UK doesn’t have it go to us.creative.com. They do.

John


From: Roy Radford
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:58 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea

Hi, John,

Confirmed, the going rate seems to be about £6 to £10 for ones based in UK, I've just grabbed one at £6 + £1 pp. to play with. This was a one off, but there's at least one other guy with 10+ on offer.

Of course, I still have to find out whether it works in Ubuntu. If (long) past experience is anything to go by it will work as a basic soundcard but not load soundfonts, which defeats the main purpose of the exercise.

Still, never mind, I also have a couple of computers running XP Pro. (A foot in each camp, remember? )

Most S/H cards come without drivers but they say you can download them. I wonder whether EAX is included as it was with the Live! 24.


Thanks for the tip!

Have fun,

Roy.


--- On Mon, 18/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 22:54


SB Live! 5.1 SB0100 Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a MIDI/Gameport
connector. And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com. There are always Creative soundcards available there. I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:44 PM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by John Beach
I don't use Linux. I have both the SB Live! for a MIDI interface running
the KX Project drivers and an X-Fi Titanium running the Creative Drivers.
I
could put speakers from both cards and port them both in jOrgan and have
64-channel capability, not sure what the total polyphony from such a setup
would be but I think it would handle most registrations without any
difficulty.
John
Granted, Linux is not for everyone, but I find Linux compatibility more or
less1 an indicator of 'standardness' (Linux tends to avoid super specialized
and rare hardware).

Which SB Live! model to you have? I can't seem to find ANY with MIDI
interface currently. I have had several Creative cards over the years,
even back to ISA days, but it is HARD to find them with MIDI ports now.

best,
Dell

--
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Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev


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Roy Radford
2011-04-19 09:20:55 UTC
Permalink
   Thanks, John, it's always concerned me that a major part of my system, the EAX reverb, depends on a single, more-or-less-obsolete, soundcard. (The USB version of Live! 24.)

   I have a couple of X-Fi cards from e-bay somewhere but the software didn't include EAX and the one I have for the Live! 24 doesn't recognise them.

    Searching the Web brought forth basic drivers I already have but no EAX.

     Just reading your link I'm a bit confused. Is that equivalent to EAX or just a library for an existing EAX to link to?


       Have fun,

           Roy.


--- On Tue, 19/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:

From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 3:43

Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi.  It is the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And there is a download for the installation zip file.

John
-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by Roy Radford
SB Live! 5.1  SB0100  Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector.  And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com.  There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,

I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here.   I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100.  There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!

Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).

--
View this message in context:
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3459166.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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John Beach
2011-04-19 11:08:30 UTC
Permalink
Roy, the card you got, SB0100 is the same that I have. You will find that the KX Project Driver will work very well with it and the reverb capabilities in KX are very good. Once you have found your way around in the KX Router and KX Auto sections of the mixer you can pretty much set it the way you like. The X-Fi cards are outstanding sound and if you use them in Audio Creation Mode, you get a great selection of Reverb and Chorus parameters and if you click the Advanced Tab, you can literally adjust all the settings in the Effects/AlChemy (EAX) section with the advantages of EAX,CMSS, X-Fi Crystallizer, and Equalizer as well as Smart Volume Control.
The link I sent was a direct copy from that webpage at Creative. Alchemy is an application that enables EAX and 3D environmental audio in packaged games. What its functionality is in MIDI related music production, I don’t really know. It may just operate with the games.
I inferred from your post to Graham that you are going to use the card with Ubuntu. I don’t know what drivers are compatible with that OS. In Windows, if you have more than one soundcard on the PC, you will have to use the KX Project drivers as Creatives will not work with more than one soundcard.

John B.


From: Roy Radford
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 5:20 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea

Thanks, John, it's always concerned me that a major part of my system, the EAX reverb, depends on a single, more-or-less-obsolete, soundcard. (The USB version of Live! 24.)

I have a couple of X-Fi cards from e-bay somewhere but the software didn't include EAX and the one I have for the Live! 24 doesn't recognise them.

Searching the Web brought forth basic drivers I already have but no EAX.

Just reading your link I'm a bit confused. Is that equivalent to EAX or just a library for an existing EAX to link to?


Have fun,

Roy.


--- On Tue, 19/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 3:43


Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi. It is the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And there is a download for the installation zip file.

John
-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by John Beach
SB Live! 5.1 SB0100 Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector. And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com. There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,

I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here. I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100. There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!

Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).

--
View this message in context:
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3459166.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
orgel jeux
2011-04-19 15:23:25 UTC
Permalink
About the SB Live cards: I forgot the name of it, but I have read , that
Microsoft removed certain audio things in WIN7, on which parts of the SB
Live cards relied. It is something like direct sound but not that one.

Well, anyhow, that means, the SB Live card can never work with full
possibilities anymore under WIN7, although Creative offers a driver, but
that is merely for use as simple audio device.

There still is EAX possible, but far from what it was under XP !!

For people maintaining these cards, ( like myself) its possible that under
some LINUX distribution they really can work better than under WIN7.

I PERSONALLY find the kX reverb metallic and cheap sounding and not good
enough for organ sounds.

Old news????

Geert
Post by John Beach
Roy, the card you got, SB0100 is the same that I have. You will find
that the KX Project Driver will work very well with it and the reverb
capabilities in KX are very good. Once you have found your way around in
the KX Router and KX Auto sections of the mixer you can pretty much set it
the way you like. The X-Fi cards are outstanding sound and if you use them
in Audio Creation Mode, you get a great selection of Reverb and Chorus
parameters and if you click the Advanced Tab, you can literally adjust all
the settings in the Effects/AlChemy (EAX) section with the advantages of
EAX,CMSS, X-Fi Crystallizer, and Equalizer as well as Smart Volume
Control.
The link I sent was a direct copy from that webpage at Creative. Alchemy
is an application that enables EAX and 3D environmental audio in packaged
games. What its functionality is in MIDI related music production, I don’t
really know. It may just operate with the games.
I inferred from your post to Graham that you are going to use the card with
Ubuntu. I don’t know what drivers are compatible with that OS. In Windows,
if you have more than one soundcard on the PC, you will have to use the KX
Project drivers as Creatives will not work with more than one soundcard.
John B.
*Sent:* Tuesday, April 19, 2011 5:20 AM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched
idea
Thanks, John, it's always concerned me that a major part of my
system, the EAX reverb, depends on a single, more-or-less-obsolete,
soundcard. (The USB version of Live! 24.)
I have a couple of X-Fi cards from e-bay somewhere but the software
didn't include EAX and the one I have for the Live! 24 doesn't recognise
them.
Searching the Web brought forth basic drivers I already have but no EAX.
Just reading your link I'm a bit confused. Is that equivalent to EAX
or just a library for an existing EAX to link to?
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 3:43
Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi. It is the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And there is a download for the installation zip file.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by John Beach
SB Live! 5.1 SB0100 Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector. And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com. There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,
I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here. I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100. There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!
Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3459166.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
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the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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------------------------------
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John Beach
2011-04-19 23:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Geert, the FACT is that SB Live! works well under Windows 7 and every other Windows operating system with the KX Project drivers. According to most people who use that driver and software application, it is even superior to the Creative Drivers. Once you get to know the DSP capabilities it is really a very, very good sound.
Of course with two soundcards in a Windows system, you have to use the KX drivers anyway because Creative will not work with the WDM limitation.
John Beach

From: orgel jeux
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 11:23 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea

About the SB Live cards: I forgot the name of it, but I have read , that Microsoft removed certain audio things in WIN7, on which parts of the SB Live cards relied. It is something like direct sound but not that one.

Well, anyhow, that means, the SB Live card can never work with full possibilities anymore under WIN7, although Creative offers a driver, but that is merely for use as simple audio device.

There still is EAX possible, but far from what it was under XP !!

For people maintaining these cards, ( like myself) its possible that under some LINUX distribution they really can work better than under WIN7.

I PERSONALLY find the kX reverb metallic and cheap sounding and not good enough for organ sounds.

Old news????

Geert

2011/4/19 John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>

Roy, the card you got, SB0100 is the same that I have. You will find that the KX Project Driver will work very well with it and the reverb capabilities in KX are very good. Once you have found your way around in the KX Router and KX Auto sections of the mixer you can pretty much set it the way you like. The X-Fi cards are outstanding sound and if you use them in Audio Creation Mode, you get a great selection of Reverb and Chorus parameters and if you click the Advanced Tab, you can literally adjust all the settings in the Effects/AlChemy (EAX) section with the advantages of EAX,CMSS, X-Fi Crystallizer, and Equalizer as well as Smart Volume Control.
The link I sent was a direct copy from that webpage at Creative. Alchemy is an application that enables EAX and 3D environmental audio in packaged games. What its functionality is in MIDI related music production, I don’t really know. It may just operate with the games.
I inferred from your post to Graham that you are going to use the card with Ubuntu. I don’t know what drivers are compatible with that OS. In Windows, if you have more than one soundcard on the PC, you will have to use the KX Project drivers as Creatives will not work with more than one soundcard.

John B.


From: Roy Radford
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 5:20 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea

Thanks, John, it's always concerned me that a major part of my system, the EAX reverb, depends on a single, more-or-less-obsolete, soundcard. (The USB version of Live! 24.)

I have a couple of X-Fi cards from e-bay somewhere but the software didn't include EAX and the one I have for the Live! 24 doesn't recognise them.

Searching the Web brought forth basic drivers I already have but no EAX.

Just reading your link I'm a bit confused. Is that equivalent to EAX or just a library for an existing EAX to link to?


Have fun,

Roy.


--- On Tue, 19/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 3:43


Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi. It is the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And there is a download for the installation zip file.

John
-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM

To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by John Beach
SB Live! 5.1 SB0100 Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector. And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com. There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,

I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here. I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100. There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!

Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).

--
View this message in context:
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3459166.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user


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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
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Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
orgel jeux
2011-04-20 10:20:21 UTC
Permalink
Ok John, I realize that.

It is after comparing - in the past - the EAX under XP with the kX drivers,
which I used also, on the aspect of its effects quality, that I decided not
to use that. In those times the EAX was far superiour.

I had 3 cards in one PC,(kX), feeding their outputs to a second PC with the
EAX.

So I went for the outboard solution with the Lexicon.

But perhaps nowadays things have changed, and the kX-effects have grown??

It is indeed alwyas tricky to judge on these matters, as first it is also a
matter of ears and taste, and second, software is always developing.......

Greetings,

Geert
Post by John Beach
Geert, the FACT is that SB Live! works well under Windows 7 and every
other Windows operating system with the KX Project drivers. According to
most people who use that driver and software application, it is even
superior to the Creative Drivers. Once you get to know the DSP capabilities
it is really a very, very good sound.
Of course with two soundcards in a Windows system, you have to use the KX
drivers anyway because Creative will not work with the WDM limitation.
John Beach
*Sent:* Tuesday, April 19, 2011 11:23 AM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched
idea
About the SB Live cards: I forgot the name of it, but I have read , that
Microsoft removed certain audio things in WIN7, on which parts of the SB
Live cards relied. It is something like direct sound but not that one.
Well, anyhow, that means, the SB Live card can never work with full
possibilities anymore under WIN7, although Creative offers a driver, but
that is merely for use as simple audio device.
There still is EAX possible, but far from what it was under XP !!
For people maintaining these cards, ( like myself) its possible that under
some LINUX distribution they really can work better than under WIN7.
I PERSONALLY find the kX reverb metallic and cheap sounding and not good
enough for organ sounds.
Old news????
Geert
Post by John Beach
Roy, the card you got, SB0100 is the same that I have. You will find
that the KX Project Driver will work very well with it and the reverb
capabilities in KX are very good. Once you have found your way around in
the KX Router and KX Auto sections of the mixer you can pretty much set it
the way you like. The X-Fi cards are outstanding sound and if you use them
in Audio Creation Mode, you get a great selection of Reverb and Chorus
parameters and if you click the Advanced Tab, you can literally adjust all
the settings in the Effects/AlChemy (EAX) section with the advantages of
EAX,CMSS, X-Fi Crystallizer, and Equalizer as well as Smart Volume
Control.
The link I sent was a direct copy from that webpage at Creative. Alchemy
is an application that enables EAX and 3D environmental audio in packaged
games. What its functionality is in MIDI related music production, I don’t
really know. It may just operate with the games.
I inferred from your post to Graham that you are going to use the card
with Ubuntu. I don’t know what drivers are compatible with that OS. In
Windows, if you have more than one soundcard on the PC, you will have to use
the KX Project drivers as Creatives will not work with more than one
soundcard.
John B.
*Sent:* Tuesday, April 19, 2011 5:20 AM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched
idea
Thanks, John, it's always concerned me that a major part of my
system, the EAX reverb, depends on a single, more-or-less-obsolete,
soundcard. (The USB version of Live! 24.)
I have a couple of X-Fi cards from e-bay somewhere but the software
didn't include EAX and the one I have for the Live! 24 doesn't recognise
them.
Searching the Web brought forth basic drivers I already have but no EAX.
Just reading your link I'm a bit confused. Is that equivalent to EAX
or just a library for an existing EAX to link to?
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 3:43
Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi. It is the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And there is a download for the installation zip file.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by John Beach
SB Live! 5.1 SB0100 Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector. And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com. There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,
I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here.
I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100. There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!
Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3459166.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
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------------------------------
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Roy Radford
2011-04-19 10:03:53 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Sven,

             Can the jOrgan Creative extension load soundfonts under Ubuntu?

     Have fun,

        Roy.


--- On Tue, 19/4/11, Roy Radford <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: Roy Radford <***@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 10:20

   Thanks, John, it's always concerned me that a major part of my system, the EAX reverb, depends on a single, more-or-less-obsolete, soundcard. (The USB version of Live! 24.)

   I have a couple of X-Fi cards from e-bay somewhere but the software didn't include EAX and the one I have for the Live! 24 doesn't recognise them.

    Searching the Web brought forth basic drivers I already have but no EAX.

     Just reading your link I'm a bit confused. Is that equivalent to EAX or just a library for an existing EAX to link to?


       Have fun,

           Roy.


--- On Tue, 19/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:

From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 3:43

Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi.  It is the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And there is a download for the installation zip file.

John
-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by Roy Radford
SB Live! 5.1  SB0100  Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector.  And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com.  There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,

I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here.   I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100.  There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at
least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!

Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).

--
View this message in context:
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3459166.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster
protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Graham Goode
2011-04-19 10:37:55 UTC
Permalink
Hi Roy,

Yes.

I tested and reported on this about a year ago, then went on to
develop for fluidsynth due to the greater polyphony and ability to
route through Jack.

But... In my experience , the linux version of the creative extension
for jOrgan can only access one hardware Creative Port, not the four
software ports available in ALSA. [And apparently for the same card in
Windows there are Two Synth Ports that do work with the jOrgan
Creative extension)

When I tested this I found it better to use four Generic Sound
elements in jOrgan configured to VirMIDI ports and then use the
Qjackctl patchbay to connect them to the four Creative Ports available
in the ALSA midi connections tab. [This was after loading the
soundfont using a command line which I have since forgotten)

So for the Soundblaster Live! card you'll see
...
Live [hw:0,0]
Live [hw:0,1]
Live [hw:0,2]
...

which corresponds to what the "amidi -l" command gives :
Dir Device Name
IO hw:0,0 EMU10K1 MPU-401 (UART)
IO hw:0,1 Emu10k1 Synth MIDI (16 subdevices)
IO hw:0,2 Emu10k1 Synth MIDI (16 subdevices)
)

In Jack or using the aplaymidi -l command you will however see FOUR
synth devices.

(listed by the "aplaymidi -l" command)
Port Client name Port name
14:0 Midi Through Midi Through Port-0
16:0 SB Live! 5.1 [SB0220] EMU10K1 MPU-401 (UART)
17:0 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 0
17:1 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 1
17:2 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 2
17:3 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 3

But in jOrgan you'll only be able to select the first Synth MIDI port.
Selecting the 2nd will give an error. I don't know if Sven has done
any more work on the Linux version of the Creative extension since
last May, if not, then this is likely what you will find.

Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Sven,
             Can the jOrgan Creative extension load soundfonts under Ubuntu?
     Have fun,
        Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 10:20
   Thanks, John, it's always concerned me that a major part of my system,
the EAX reverb, depends on a single, more-or-less-obsolete, soundcard. (The
USB version of Live! 24.)
   I have a couple of X-Fi cards from e-bay somewhere but the software
didn't include EAX and the one I have for the Live! 24 doesn't recognise
them.
    Searching the Web brought forth basic drivers I already have but no EAX.
     Just reading your link I'm a bit confused. Is that equivalent to EAX or
just a library for an existing EAX to link to?
       Have fun,
           Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 3:43
Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi.  It is the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And there is a download for the installation zip file.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by Roy Radford
SB Live! 5.1  SB0100  Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector.  And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com.  There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,
I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here.   I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100.  There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at
least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!
Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3459166.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
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protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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Sven Meier
2011-04-19 15:44:06 UTC
Permalink
Hi Roy and Graham,

on Linux jOrgan's creative extension uses awesfx to load soundfonts.
This library supports a single synth only :(.

Regards

Sven
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Roy,
Yes.
I tested and reported on this about a year ago, then went on to
develop for fluidsynth due to the greater polyphony and ability to
route through Jack.
But... In my experience , the linux version of the creative extension
for jOrgan can only access one hardware Creative Port, not the four
software ports available in ALSA. [And apparently for the same card in
Windows there are Two Synth Ports that do work with the jOrgan
Creative extension)
When I tested this I found it better to use four Generic Sound
elements in jOrgan configured to VirMIDI ports and then use the
Qjackctl patchbay to connect them to the four Creative Ports available
in the ALSA midi connections tab. [This was after loading the
soundfont using a command line which I have since forgotten)
So for the Soundblaster Live! card you'll see
...
Live [hw:0,0]
Live [hw:0,1]
Live [hw:0,2]
...
Dir Device Name
IO hw:0,0 EMU10K1 MPU-401 (UART)
IO hw:0,1 Emu10k1 Synth MIDI (16 subdevices)
IO hw:0,2 Emu10k1 Synth MIDI (16 subdevices)
)
In Jack or using the aplaymidi -l command you will however see FOUR
synth devices.
(listed by the "aplaymidi -l" command)
Port Client name Port name
14:0 Midi Through Midi Through Port-0
16:0 SB Live! 5.1 [SB0220] EMU10K1 MPU-401 (UART)
17:0 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 0
17:1 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 1
17:2 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 2
17:3 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 3
But in jOrgan you'll only be able to select the first Synth MIDI port.
Selecting the 2nd will give an error. I don't know if Sven has done
any more work on the Linux version of the Creative extension since
last May, if not, then this is likely what you will find.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Sven,
Can the jOrgan Creative extension load soundfonts under Ubuntu?
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 10:20
Thanks, John, it's always concerned me that a major part of my system,
the EAX reverb, depends on a single, more-or-less-obsolete, soundcard. (The
USB version of Live! 24.)
I have a couple of X-Fi cards from e-bay somewhere but the software
didn't include EAX and the one I have for the Live! 24 doesn't recognise
them.
Searching the Web brought forth basic drivers I already have but no EAX.
Just reading your link I'm a bit confused. Is that equivalent to EAX or
just a library for an existing EAX to link to?
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 3:43
Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi. It is the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And there is a download for the installation zip file.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by John Beach
SB Live! 5.1 SB0100 Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector. And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com. There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,
I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here. I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100. There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at
least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!
Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3459166.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
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protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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Roy Radford
2011-04-19 10:15:59 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Dell,


       Did you see any of these?







p { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; }a:link { }

SOUND
BLASTER LIVE! 5.1 PCI Sound Card SB0100



Creative
Sound Blaster LIVE! 5.1 (SB0100) Sound Card



SOUND
BLASTER LIVE! 5.1 PCI Sound Card SB0100 [SC1]



CREATIVE
SB0100 SOUND BLASTER LIVE! 5.1 PCI SOUND CARD



REATIVE
Sound Blaster LIVE SB0100 PCI PC sound card



SOUNDBLASTER
LIVE 5.1 SOUND CARD M/N: SB0100



SOUND
BLASTER SB0100 PCI SOUND CARD



Creative
Sound Blaster SB0100 PCI PC Card A9986



CREATIVE
Sound Blaster LIVE SB0100 PCI PC sound card




     Have fun,

        Roy.

--- On Tue, 19/4/11, DellAnderson <***@anim8.com> wrote:

From: DellAnderson <***@anim8.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 2:56
Post by Roy Radford
SB Live! 5.1  SB0100  Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector.  And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com.  There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,

I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here.   I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100.  There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!

Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).   

--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3459166.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Roy Radford
2011-04-19 10:44:39 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Graham,

                   Thanks very much for your detailed reply. I am expecting an SB0100 from e-bay today so I guess I'll open the whole can o' worms again when it comes! 


      Now Puppy is more-or-less like Ubuntu, will the same things apply here?


     Have fun,

        Roy.


--- On Tue, 19/4/11, Graham Goode <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Graham Goode <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 11:37

Hi Roy,

Yes.

I tested and reported on this about a year ago, then went on to
develop for fluidsynth due to the greater polyphony and ability to
route through Jack.

But... In my experience , the linux version of the creative extension
for jOrgan can only access one hardware Creative Port, not the four
software ports available in ALSA. [And apparently for the same card in
Windows there are Two Synth Ports that do work with the jOrgan
Creative extension)

When I tested this I found it better to use four Generic Sound
elements in jOrgan configured to VirMIDI ports and then use the
Qjackctl patchbay to connect them to the four Creative Ports available
in the ALSA midi connections tab. [This was after loading the
soundfont using a command line which I have since forgotten)

So for the Soundblaster Live! card you'll see
...
Live [hw:0,0]
Live [hw:0,1]
Live [hw:0,2]
...

which corresponds to what the "amidi -l" command gives :
Dir Device Name
IO hw:0,0 EMU10K1 MPU-401 (UART)
IO hw:0,1 Emu10k1 Synth MIDI (16 subdevices)
IO hw:0,2 Emu10k1 Synth MIDI (16 subdevices)
)

In Jack or using the aplaymidi -l command you will however see FOUR
synth devices.

(listed by the "aplaymidi -l" command)
Port Client name Port name
14:0 Midi Through Midi Through Port-0
16:0 SB Live! 5.1 [SB0220] EMU10K1 MPU-401 (UART)
17:0 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 0
17:1 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 1
17:2 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 2
17:3 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 3

But in jOrgan you'll only be able to select the first Synth MIDI port.
Selecting the 2nd will give an error. I don't know if Sven has done
any more work on the Linux version of the Creative extension since
last May, if not, then this is likely what you will find.

Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Sven,
             Can the jOrgan Creative extension load soundfonts under Ubuntu?
     Have fun,
        Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 10:20
   Thanks, John, it's always concerned me that a major part of my system,
the EAX reverb, depends on a single, more-or-less-obsolete, soundcard. (The
USB version of Live! 24.)
   I have a couple of X-Fi cards from e-bay somewhere but the software
didn't include EAX and the one I have for the Live! 24 doesn't recognise
them.
    Searching the Web brought forth basic drivers I already have but no EAX.
     Just reading your link I'm a bit confused. Is that equivalent to EAX or
just a library for an existing EAX to link to?
       Have fun,
           Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 3:43
Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi.  It is the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And there is a download for the installation zip file.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by Roy Radford
SB Live! 5.1  SB0100  Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector.  And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com.  There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,
I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here.   I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100.  There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at
  least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!
Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).
--
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Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Graham Goode
2011-04-19 11:56:25 UTC
Permalink
Hi Roy,

Yes, it should be the same. Both are using the ALSA drivers (maybe
slightly different versions).

GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Graham,
Thanks very much for your detailed reply. I am expecting
an SB0100 from e-bay today so I guess I'll open the whole can o' worms again
when it comes!
Now Puppy is more-or-less like Ubuntu, will the same things apply
here?
Have fun,
Roy.
Roy Radford
2011-04-19 12:12:53 UTC
Permalink
Hi, John,

              Thanks for tidying that up.

      I have both Ubuntu 10.04 and XP Pro on the experimental computer. (Dual boot, of course, which some say is itself a source of instability???) That machine is also permanently on the Web in Ubuntu, not in XP Pro.

      It's a fairly muscular Novatech beastie, Dual core, 4GB RAM etc. It has two free PCI slots I can play with for this sort of thing.

    The jOrgan I actually PLAY, (sort of!), is the Edirol system under XP Pro on a separate machine.

    I think I may put an old cheapo on the web in the garage and leave the experimental machine off it except for downloads.


      Have fun,

          Roy.


--- On Tue, 19/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:

From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 12:08



Roy, the card you got, SB0100 is the same that I have.  You will find
that the KX Project Driver will work very well with it and the reverb
capabilities in KX are very good.  Once you have found your way around in
the KX Router and KX Auto sections of the mixer you can pretty much set it the
way you like.  The X-Fi cards are outstanding sound and if you use them in
Audio Creation Mode, you get a great selection of Reverb and Chorus parameters
and if you click the Advanced Tab, you can literally adjust all the settings in
the Effects/AlChemy (EAX) section with the advantages of EAX,CMSS, X-Fi
Crystallizer, and Equalizer as well as Smart Volume Control.  
The link I sent was a direct copy from that webpage at Creative. 
Alchemy is an application that enables EAX and 3D environmental audio in
packaged games.  What its functionality is in MIDI related music
production, I don’t really know.  It may just operate with the games.
I inferred from your post to Graham that you are going to use the card with
Ubuntu.  I don’t know what drivers are compatible with that OS.  In
Windows, if you have more than one soundcard on the PC, you will have to use the
KX Project drivers as Creatives will not work with more than one
soundcard.
 
John B.
 


 

From: Roy Radford
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 5:20 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far
fetched idea
 




   Thanks, John, it's always concerned me that a
major part of my system, the EAX reverb, depends on a single,
more-or-less-obsolete, soundcard. (The USB version of Live!
24.)

   I have a couple of X-Fi cards from e-bay
somewhere but the software didn't include EAX and the one I have for the
Live! 24 doesn't recognise them.

    Searching the
Web brought forth basic drivers I already have but no
EAX.

     Just reading your link I'm a bit
confused. Is that equivalent to EAX or just a library for an existing EAX
to link to?


       Have
fun,

          
Roy.


--- On Tue, 19/4/11, John Beach
<***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From:
John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To:
jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011,
3:43


Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that
is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi.  It is
the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And
there is a download for the installation zip
file.

John
-----Original Message-----
From:
DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject:
Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea


jbeach2646
SB Live! 5.1  SB0100  Any of the
soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector.  And all of those can use the KX Project
drivers.
Look on eBay.com.  There are always Creative
soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning
and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very
reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,

I
went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone
here.   I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih
MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100.  There are so many
variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having
EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at
least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!

Anyway,
as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none
of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at
least
affordably ideal!).

--
View this message in context:

http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3459166.html
Sent
from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation --
Increasing the use of server virtualization is a
top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management,
and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn
more about boosting
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Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
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and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
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Roy Radford
2011-04-19 12:15:12 UTC
Permalink
   Thanks, Graham, watch this space!   


      Have fun,

         Roy.

--- On Tue, 19/4/11, Graham Goode <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Graham Goode <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX.
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 12:56

Hi Roy,

Yes, it should be the same. Both are using the ALSA drivers (maybe
slightly different versions).

GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Graham,
                    Thanks very much for your detailed reply. I am expecting
an SB0100 from e-bay today so I guess I'll open the whole can o' worms again
when it comes!
       Now Puppy is more-or-less like Ubuntu, will the same things apply
here?
      Have fun,
         Roy.
DellAnderson
2011-04-20 02:44:40 UTC
Permalink
I just ordered a Creative SB0100 so hopefully it will arrive shortly.
Most of the UK Ebay sites don't ship to US it seems, but having the proper
combination of Name & Model number really simplied the U.S. search, and I
found one for quite reasonable. Also ordered another card from Amazon which
I just learned is 'out of stock' and order cancelled apparently. Just as
well, don't think it was what I really wanted in retrospect. Call me
simple-minded, but my brain rebels against so many model names with subtle
nuances (like "SoundBlaster Live! Value" (which is not not a value, but a
cheapened version with less processing and more on par with what some may
recall as the difference between a hardware and WinFax Modem (software
based!)) etc.

The Wikipedia article on these cards was very useful, but still incomplete
compared to potential number of models that could be covered (based on the
KXProject listings).

best,
Dell



--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3462001.html
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Roy Radford
2011-04-19 17:39:28 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Sven,

              Thanks for clarifying that. Oh well (Sigh) I guess that's another reason for staying with the mighty M$ for the more serious stuff! 

   ...Still, I suppose if the synth chore is loaded onto hardware one of the biggest objections to M$, the high latency, goes away.

    Slightly OT, I still use XP Pro for the main jOrgan and see no reason to move to Win7. That is particularly true when you hear that it can (Deliberately?) interfere with full usage of your sound hardware.

    Some pro-Windows campaigners have said Win7 is much better than Vista. Well, it didn't have much to beat, by all accounts! 

   What I HAVEN'T seen so far is anyone saying Win7 is better than XP Pro. I wonder why!   

      Have fun,

          Roy.


--- On Tue, 19/4/11, Sven Meier <***@meiers.net> wrote:

From: Sven Meier <***@meiers.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 16:44

Hi Roy and Graham,

on Linux jOrgan's creative extension uses awesfx to load soundfonts.
This library supports a single synth only :(.

Regards

Sven
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Roy,
Yes.
I tested and reported on this about a year ago, then went on to
develop for fluidsynth due to the greater polyphony and ability to
route through Jack.
But... In my experience , the linux version of the creative extension
for jOrgan can only access one hardware Creative Port, not the four
software ports available in ALSA. [And apparently for the same card in
Windows there are Two Synth Ports that do work with the jOrgan
Creative extension)
When I tested this I found it better to use four Generic Sound
elements in jOrgan configured to VirMIDI ports and then use the
Qjackctl patchbay to connect them to the four Creative Ports available
in the ALSA midi connections tab. [This was after loading the
soundfont using a command line which I have since forgotten)
So for the Soundblaster Live! card you'll see
...
Live [hw:0,0]
Live [hw:0,1]
Live [hw:0,2]
...
Dir Device Name
IO hw:0,0 EMU10K1 MPU-401 (UART)
IO hw:0,1 Emu10k1 Synth MIDI (16 subdevices)
IO hw:0,2 Emu10k1 Synth MIDI (16 subdevices)
)
In Jack or using the aplaymidi -l command you will however see FOUR
synth devices.
(listed by the "aplaymidi -l" command)
Port Client name Port name
14:0 Midi Through Midi Through Port-0
16:0 SB Live! 5.1 [SB0220] EMU10K1 MPU-401 (UART)
17:0 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 0
17:1 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 1
17:2 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 2
17:3 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 3
But in jOrgan you'll only be able to select the first Synth MIDI port.
Selecting the 2nd will give an error. I don't know if Sven has done
any more work on the Linux version of the Creative extension since
last May, if not, then this is likely what you will find.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Sven,
               Can the jOrgan Creative extension load soundfonts under Ubuntu?
       Have fun,
          Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 10:20
     Thanks, John, it's always concerned me that a major part of my system,
the EAX reverb, depends on a single, more-or-less-obsolete, soundcard. (The
USB version of Live! 24.)
     I have a couple of X-Fi cards from e-bay somewhere but the software
didn't include EAX and the one I have for the Live! 24 doesn't recognise
them.
      Searching the Web brought forth basic drivers I already have but no EAX.
       Just reading your link I'm a bit confused. Is that equivalent to EAX or
just a library for an existing EAX to link to?
         Have fun,
             Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 3:43
Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi.  It is the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And there is a download for the installation zip file.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by Roy Radford
SB Live! 5.1  SB0100  Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector.  And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com.  There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,
I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here.   I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100.  There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at
   least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!
Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3459166.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
   improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
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priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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Paul Kealy
2011-04-20 00:19:17 UTC
Permalink
I have a question:
I am just on the verge of porting over from MidiTzer to jOrgan.
Do you know if this will work?
 
I use:
five Live 5.1 SoundBlasters mounted in a specifically MIDI computer
running kX
XP Pro
 
My other computer uses KX Pro with MidiTzer and works fine
with four SoundBalsters - the one I'm documenting in a tutorial.
 
I have not attempted Linux at this point,
as I had heard kX is inoperable with kX and multiple SoundBlasters.
 
I prefer the sound of many ranks from discrete amplified speakers,
 
Do you know if this will work?
 
PL
www/StentorVox.com
 
=================

--- On Tue, 4/19/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:


From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, April 19, 2011, 8:23 AM


About the SB Live cards: I forgot the name of it, but I have read , that Microsoft removed certain audio things in WIN7,  on which parts of the SB Live cards relied. It is something like direct sound but not that one.

Well, anyhow, that means, the SB Live card can never work with full possibilities anymore under WIN7, although Creative offers a driver, but that is merely for use as simple audio device.

There still is EAX possible, but far from what it was under XP !!

For people maintaining these cards, ( like myself)  its possible that under some LINUX distribution they really can work better than under WIN7.

I PERSONALLY find the kX  reverb metallic and cheap sounding and not good enough for organ sounds.

Old news???? 

Geert



2011/4/19 John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>





Roy, the card you got, SB0100 is the same that I have.  You will find that the KX Project Driver will work very well with it and the reverb capabilities in KX are very good.  Once you have found your way around in the KX Router and KX Auto sections of the mixer you can pretty much set it the way you like.  The X-Fi cards are outstanding sound and if you use them in Audio Creation Mode, you get a great selection of Reverb and Chorus parameters and if you click the Advanced Tab, you can literally adjust all the settings in the Effects/AlChemy (EAX) section with the advantages of EAX,CMSS, X-Fi Crystallizer, and Equalizer as well as Smart Volume Control.  
The link I sent was a direct copy from that webpage at Creative.  Alchemy is an application that enables EAX and 3D environmental audio in packaged games.  What its functionality is in MIDI related music production, I don’t really know.  It may just operate with the games.
I inferred from your post to Graham that you are going to use the card with Ubuntu.  I don’t know what drivers are compatible with that OS.  In Windows, if you have more than one soundcard on the PC, you will have to use the KX Project drivers as Creatives will not work with more than one soundcard.
 
John B.
 


 

From: Roy Radford
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 5:20 AM

To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
 





   Thanks, John, it's always concerned me that a major part of my system, the EAX reverb, depends on a single, more-or-less-obsolete, soundcard. (The USB version of Live! 24.)

   I have a couple of X-Fi cards from e-bay somewhere but the software didn't include EAX and the one I have for the Live! 24 doesn't recognise them.

    Searching the Web brought forth basic drivers I already have but no EAX.

     Just reading your link I'm a bit confused. Is that equivalent to EAX or just a library for an existing EAX to link to?


       Have fun,

           Roy.


--- On Tue, 19/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:



From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 3:43



Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi.  It is the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And there is a download for the installation zip file.

John
-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM



To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
SB Live! 5.1  SB0100  Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector.  And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com.  There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,

I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here.   I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100.  There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!

Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).

--
View this message in context:
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3459166.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Lynn Walls
2011-04-20 01:21:55 UTC
Permalink
Paul,

I got started in this VTPO business with MidiTzer, and quickly moved to the MidiTzer 260SP
using Bruce Miles' soundfont and MidiTzer's internal link to Fluidsynth...Then to MidiTzer
260SP using a Creative SoundBlaster hardware synth (both A and B synths on one card 'cause
you need more than 16 channels with MidiTzer 260SP).

Before long I replicated the MidiTzer 260SP ranks and stops in jOrgan (not a trivial
undertaking), still using the Miles cinema soundfont on a SoundBlaster card.

This is where you seem to want to go by your statement: "...porting over from MidiTzer to
jOrgan" So, to answer your question: It is definitely possible to do achieving nearly
100% of MidiTzer's functionality in jOrgan. But it is not as trivial an undertaking as
your phrase "porting over" would suggest. It's a good deal of work to craft the jOrgan
disposition to make it equivalent to the MidiTzer...and at that point you really don't
have anything better than MidiTzer. If that all you intend to do, you've wasted your time
except for the experience of having done it.

So, the purpose of doing all this, I presume, is to be able to expand your VTPO to
something that has substantially more resources than MidiTzer -- creating additional Ranks
and Stops and even manuals well beyond what MidiTzer has.

The other kind of expansion that jOrgan affords is to be able to play other types of
organs (classical, church, novelty) using .disposition (organ definition) files and
soundfont files built by other people, using your same midi keyboards, switches and
pedals. As you know, with MidiTzer you are limited to just two possible organs -- the
260SP being an only extension of the original MidiTer.

MidiTzer on steroids is what I did, anyway...

After I got the jOrgan VTPO working substantially the same as MidiTzer, I soon expanded it
to about 30 ranks using theatre organ soundfonts from the Kent Allman web site. Then Joe
Hardy came along and built some wonderful ranks as GigaSampler files (similar to
soundfonts), and I acquired the GigaStudio Orchestra sampler software to play Hardy's .gig
ranks. And that's where I am today: a 3/30 Theatre Organ VTPO based on jOrgan and GSO3
and the Joe Hardy .gig ranks -- all evolved from a MidiTzer beginning.

The only path beyond this point (at least in terms of a credible virtual theatre organ) is
to move into the Hauptwerk arena. As far as I know there is no more work being done to
craft more or better theatre organ ranks in soundfonts or gigasampler files. All the
theatre organ sampling and sample set building is being done in the Hauptwerk environment.

So, for me, the jOrgan VTPO world has pretty much topped out with the configuration that I
described above. I don't plan to do much more until after I decide to buy Hauptwerk and
one or more of the Hauptwerk theatre organ sets. At that point I will probably create a
jOrgan VTPO that "plays" the Hauptwerk organ, rather than use the Hauptwerk
human-interface display screens directly.

I should note that there is only one significant MidiTzer feature that jOrgan cannot
replicate: the console controlled dynamic scoping (reconfiguring) of the combo pistons.
I really miss this unique MidiTzer feature. I don't think even Hauptwerk can do this.

CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Paul Kealy
I am just on the verge of porting over from MidiTzer to jOrgan.
Do you know if this will work?
five Live 5.1 SoundBlasters mounted in a specifically MIDI computer
running kX
XP Pro
My other computer uses KX Pro with MidiTzer and works fine
with four SoundBalsters - the one I'm documenting in a tutorial.
I have not attempted Linux at this point,
as I had heard kX is inoperable with kX and multiple SoundBlasters.
I prefer the sound of many ranks from discrete amplified speakers,
Do you know if this will work?
Lynn Walls
2011-04-20 01:23:29 UTC
Permalink
Paul,

I got started in this VTPO business with MidiTzer, and quickly moved to the MidiTzer 260SP
using Bruce Miles' soundfont and MidiTzer's internal link to Fluidsynth...Then to MidiTzer
260SP using a Creative SoundBlaster hardware synth (both A and B synths on one card 'cause
you need more than 16 channels with MidiTzer 260SP).

Before long I replicated the MidiTzer 260SP ranks and stops in jOrgan (not a trivial
undertaking), still using the Miles cinema soundfont on a SoundBlaster card.

This is where you seem to want to go by your statement: "...porting over from MidiTzer to
jOrgan" So, to answer your question: It is definitely possible to do achieving nearly
100% of MidiTzer's functionality in jOrgan. But it is not as trivial an undertaking as
your phrase "porting over" would suggest. It's a good deal of work to craft the jOrgan
disposition to make it equivalent to the MidiTzer...and at that point you really don't
have anything better than MidiTzer. If that all you intend to do, you've wasted your time
except for the experience of having done it.

So, the purpose of doing all this, I presume, is to be able to expand your VTPO to
something that has substantially more resources than MidiTzer -- creating additional Ranks
and Stops and even manuals well beyond what MidiTzer has.

The other kind of expansion that jOrgan affords is to be able to play other types of
organs (classical, church, novelty) using .disposition (organ definition) files and
soundfont files built by other people, using your same midi keyboards, switches and
pedals. As you know, with MidiTzer you are limited to just two possible organs -- the
260SP being an only extension of the original MidiTer.

MidiTzer on steroids is what I did, anyway...

After I got the jOrgan VTPO working substantially the same as MidiTzer, I soon expanded it
to about 30 ranks using theatre organ soundfonts from the Kent Allman web site. Then Joe
Hardy came along and built some wonderful ranks as GigaSampler files (similar to
soundfonts), and I acquired the GigaStudio Orchestra sampler software to play Hardy's .gig
ranks. And that's where I am today: a 3/30 Theatre Organ VTPO based on jOrgan and GSO3
and the Joe Hardy .gig ranks -- all evolved from a MidiTzer beginning.

The only path beyond this point (at least in terms of a credible virtual theatre organ) is
to move into the Hauptwerk arena. As far as I know there is no more work being done to
craft more or better theatre organ ranks in soundfonts or gigasampler files. All the
theatre organ sampling and sample set building is being done in the Hauptwerk environment.

So, for me, the jOrgan VTPO world has pretty much topped out with the configuration that I
described above. I don't plan to do much more until after I decide to buy Hauptwerk and
one or more of the Hauptwerk theatre organ sets. At that point I will probably create a
jOrgan VTPO that "plays" the Hauptwerk organ, rather than use the Hauptwerk
human-interface display screens directly.

I should note that there is only one significant MidiTzer feature that jOrgan cannot
replicate: the console controlled dynamic scoping (reconfiguring) of the combo pistons. I
really miss this unique MidiTzer feature. I don't think even Hauptwerk can do this.

CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Paul Kealy
I am just on the verge of porting over from MidiTzer to jOrgan.
Do you know if this will work?
five Live 5.1 SoundBlasters mounted in a specifically MIDI computer
running kX
XP Pro
My other computer uses KX Pro with MidiTzer and works fine
with four SoundBalsters - the one I'm documenting in a tutorial.
I have not attempted Linux at this point,
as I had heard kX is inoperable with kX and multiple SoundBlasters.
I prefer the sound of many ranks from discrete amplified speakers,
Do you know if this will work?
Rick (greenfox)
2011-04-21 01:01:12 UTC
Permalink
Hi Lynn

You raise a good point. I have made a brief mention about this in the
past. This is an aspect of our real local pipe organ that I am not able
to replicate with jOrgan.

Every combination piston in jOrgan must be referenced in the disposition
to which stops it affects. If it is to be a "General" combination
piston, then all the stops, if it is to be a "Divisional" combination
piston, then only the stops in that specific division. This can be
tedious to set up and certainly not something to be changed on any
frequency even by the disposition developer, let alone a disposition
user. (I will comment that the new grouping arrangement has made the
task a little easier, providing the disposition developer has carefully
and logically grouped their elements.)

I envisage a new element called "MAP" or "RANGE" (depending which school
you come from). This will be in the MEMORY family of elements. It
would be referenced to the SET function, the CONSOLE, and every
COMBINATION PISTON. It would be a latching function button to operate
on the normal play mode of jOrgan. When pressed it would stay on (and
the organ not play), with it on and you press a COMBINATION PISTON all
tabs that are currently mapped or ranged (or referenced) to this piston
would turn on (and those not would show as off). If you wanted to
change the current setting, you would just click on and off the stops
you want, press SET and then the COMBINATION PISTON you want that
setting on. You would then re-press the MAP button to get out of MAP
mode. This information would be stored in the .memory file along with
all combinations.

Regards
Rick
Post by Lynn Walls
I should note that there is only one significant MidiTzer feature that jOrgan cannot
replicate: the console controlled dynamic scoping (reconfiguring) of the combo pistons. I
really miss this unique MidiTzer feature. I don't think even Hauptwerk can do this.
CLW
DellAnderson
2011-04-21 01:43:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick (greenfox)
Hi Lynn
You raise a good point. I have made a brief mention about this in the
past. This is an aspect of our real local pipe organ that I am not able
to replicate with jOrgan.
Post by Lynn Walls
I should note that there is only one significant MidiTzer feature that jOrgan cannot
replicate: the console controlled dynamic scoping (reconfiguring) of the
combo pistons. I
really miss this unique MidiTzer feature. I don't think even Hauptwerk can
do this. <<

Is this missing in jOrgan because each disposition has to be custom
configured at start up to match local hardware controller console? Or is it
just a feature not yet added? If the former, our other proposal
(standardized abstract organ e.g. with 100 general combination pistons, 25
divisionals, etc) might make it easier to add the latter feature. Hardware
consoles not needing that many pistons, would only use the first 6-10 or
whatever... I'm out of my league here so just thinking out loud...

best,

Dell

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Rick (greenfox)
2011-04-21 02:05:51 UTC
Permalink
Hello Dell

Yes, I was responding to Lynn's comment. This doesn't relate to the
independent console configuration we were discussing.
I think this Mapping or Ranging feature would require a new Element in
the Memory family. I suspect quite a large rewrite of the Memory function.

Disposition developers achieve a fixed version of this function in the
creation of a disposition.

Organ consoles have rows of pistons under each keyboard. A performing
organist will sit at the console and MAP some to be Generals and some to
be Divisionals, then set their combinations. jOrgan is basically a
fixed function provided by the disposition builder of "these are
Generals and these are Divisionals" and that is how they stay.

Our other discussion about linking consoles has to do with how much of
this functionality each console is able to link with.

Regards
Rick
Post by DellAnderson
Is this missing in jOrgan because each disposition has to be custom
configured at start up to match local hardware controller console? Or is it
just a feature not yet added? If the former, our other proposal
(standardized abstract organ e.g. with 100 general combination pistons, 25
divisionals, etc) might make it easier to add the latter feature. Hardware
consoles not needing that many pistons, would only use the first 6-10 or
whatever... I'm out of my league here so just thinking out loud...
best,
Dell
DellAnderson
2011-04-21 02:25:59 UTC
Permalink
Hello Dell... jOrgan is basically a
fixed function provided by the disposition builder of "these are
Generals and these are Divisionals" and that is how they stay.
Thanks, Rick. Just out of curiosity (please do not feel any obligation to
respond in depth), I was wondering of what purpose dynamic combination
action would serve? I obviously do not have it on my home organ, unless
unless of course you are referring to what on my organ is a 'key' switch
which has 4 positions and thus allows remapping of all general and
divisional pistons simply by rotating to one of the 4 possible positions
(for 4 different organists or 4 different piece sets?

best,

Dell

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Rick (greenfox)
2011-04-23 11:25:06 UTC
Permalink
Hello Dell

I believe this is a feature that goes back to early Wurlitzer Theatre
Organs. They had a setter-board to set their combinations. (it was not
possible to set combinations at the console) The organist had to go to
the back of the organ and set their registrations. There were 10
pistons under each keyboard. It was common for the 5 on the left to be
Generals and the 5 on the right to be Divisionals. Some organists
preferred more Generals and others preferred more Divisionals and were
able to configure this on the setter-board.

Modern Theatre Organs allow this function from the console when in "MAP"
or "RANGE" mode. When in this mode, pressing any piston displays which
tabs are activated on the piston by turning on the tabs that are
affected by the current "RANGE".

Regards
Rick
Thanks, Rick. Just out of curiosity (please do not feel any obligation
to respond in depth), I was wondering of what purpose dynamic
combination action would serve? I obviously do not have it on my home
organ, unless
unless of course you are referring to what on my organ is a 'key' switch
which has 4 positions and thus allows remapping of all general and
divisional pistons simply by rotating to one of the 4 possible positions
(for 4 different organists or 4 different piece sets?
best,
Dell
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Lynn Walls
2011-04-21 02:27:28 UTC
Permalink
The dynamically mappable piston feature is missing simply because Sven has not yet
designed/developed it (yet). It's absence has nothing to do with custom configuration or
matching to local hardware.

In order to achieve dynamic ranging of Combination elements (pistons), Sven would have to
figure out a way to dynamically (on-the-fly, while in play mode) change/map which Stop and
Coupler elements are being "referenced from" which Combination elements (pistons). (Or
conversely, which Combination elements are "referencing" which Stop and Coupler elements).
Presently, jOrgan has no capability of changing element "references" except when in
Construct mode.

And then: What do you do about any already saved piston memories after you have re-mapped
what stops/couplers/trems a given piston affects?

MidiTzer provides an excellent model for how this might work. There would be a new type
of Captor element for which you would place a button graphic on the console and label it
something like "MAP" ( similar to the combo capture button usually labelled "SET").

Then, in order to set that scope (range) of a given piston, you would turn ON all the
stops, couplers, an trems that you wanted that piston to control, and you would turn OFF
all other stop, coupler and trem switches that you did NOT want this piston to control.
Then you would click/press the "MAP" button to arm the captor function. Then you would
click/press the selected piston button. This would reset all the references for that
piston to only the stops. couplers and trems that were in the ON state at the time the
piston was "mapped".

Thereafter, that particular piston would be scoped to save only the stops, couplers, or
trems that it had most recently been mapped for.

With this feature, any piston on the console could be dynamically changed to be a General
or a Divisional or a Trem-only piston merely by resetting its scope with the MAP captor.

This would probably be a lot of work for Sven, but it would be a GREAT feature!

CLW
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Lynn Walls
Post by Rick (greenfox)
Hi Lynn
You raise a good point. I have made a brief mention about this in the
past. This is an aspect of our real local pipe organ that I am not able
to replicate with jOrgan.
Post by Lynn Walls
I should note that there is only one significant MidiTzer feature that
jOrgan cannot
replicate: the console controlled dynamic scoping (reconfiguring) of the combo pistons. I
really miss this unique MidiTzer feature. I don't think even Hauptwerk can
do this.<<
Is this missing in jOrgan because each disposition has to be custom
configured at start up to match local hardware controller console? Or is it
just a feature not yet added? If the former, our other proposal
(standardized abstract organ e.g. with 100 general combination pistons, 25
divisionals, etc) might make it easier to add the latter feature. Hardware
consoles not needing that many pistons, would only use the first 6-10 or
whatever... I'm out of my league here so just thinking out loud...
best,
Dell
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
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orgel jeux
2011-04-21 08:31:35 UTC
Permalink
Lynn, you're right about HW in this.

Geert
Post by Rick (greenfox)
Hi Lynn
You raise a good point. I have made a brief mention about this in the
past. This is an aspect of our real local pipe organ that I am not able
to replicate with jOrgan.
Every combination piston in jOrgan must be referenced in the disposition
to which stops it affects. If it is to be a "General" combination
piston, then all the stops, if it is to be a "Divisional" combination
piston, then only the stops in that specific division. This can be
tedious to set up and certainly not something to be changed on any
frequency even by the disposition developer, let alone a disposition
user. (I will comment that the new grouping arrangement has made the
task a little easier, providing the disposition developer has carefully
and logically grouped their elements.)
I envisage a new element called "MAP" or "RANGE" (depending which school
you come from). This will be in the MEMORY family of elements. It
would be referenced to the SET function, the CONSOLE, and every
COMBINATION PISTON. It would be a latching function button to operate
on the normal play mode of jOrgan. When pressed it would stay on (and
the organ not play), with it on and you press a COMBINATION PISTON all
tabs that are currently mapped or ranged (or referenced) to this piston
would turn on (and those not would show as off). If you wanted to
change the current setting, you would just click on and off the stops
you want, press SET and then the COMBINATION PISTON you want that
setting on. You would then re-press the MAP button to get out of MAP
mode. This information would be stored in the .memory file along with
all combinations.
Regards
Rick
Post by Lynn Walls
I should note that there is only one significant MidiTzer feature that
jOrgan cannot
Post by Lynn Walls
replicate: the console controlled dynamic scoping (reconfiguring) of the
combo pistons. I
Post by Lynn Walls
really miss this unique MidiTzer feature. I don't think even Hauptwerk
can do this.
Post by Lynn Walls
CLW
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Roy Radford
2011-04-20 00:25:31 UTC
Permalink
  No, but I and, I suspect, quite a few others will be very interested to hear what happens when you try it!  


     Have fun,

         Roy.


--- On Wed, 20/4/11, Paul Kealy <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Paul Kealy <***@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Wednesday, 20 April, 2011, 1:19

I have a question:
I am just on the verge of porting over from MidiTzer to jOrgan.
Do you know if this will work?
 
I use:
five Live 5.1 SoundBlasters mounted in a specifically MIDI computer
running kX
XP Pro
 
My other computer uses KX Pro with MidiTzer and works fine
with four SoundBalsters - the one I'm documenting in a tutorial.
 
I have not attempted Linux at this point,
as I had heard kX is inoperable with kX and multiple SoundBlasters.
 
I prefer the sound of many ranks from discrete amplified speakers,
 
Do you know if this will work?
 
PL
www/StentorVox.com
 
=================

--- On Tue, 4/19/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:


From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, April 19, 2011, 8:23 AM


About the SB Live cards: I forgot the name of it, but I have read , that Microsoft removed certain audio things in WIN7,  on which parts of the SB Live cards relied. It is something like direct sound but not that one.

Well, anyhow, that means, the SB Live card can never work with full possibilities anymore under WIN7, although Creative offers a driver, but that is merely for use as simple audio device.

There still is EAX possible, but far from what it was under XP !!

For people maintaining these cards, ( like myself)  its possible that under some LINUX distribution they really can work better than under WIN7.

I PERSONALLY find the kX  reverb metallic and cheap sounding and not good enough for organ sounds.

Old news???? 

Geert



2011/4/19 John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>





Roy, the card you got, SB0100 is the same that I have.  You will find that the KX Project Driver will work very well with it and the reverb capabilities in KX are very good.  Once you have found your way around in the KX Router and KX Auto sections of the mixer you can pretty much set it the way you like.  The X-Fi cards are outstanding sound and if you use them in Audio Creation Mode, you get a great selection of Reverb and Chorus parameters and if you click the Advanced Tab, you can literally adjust all the settings in the Effects/AlChemy (EAX) section with the advantages of EAX,CMSS, X-Fi Crystallizer, and Equalizer as well as Smart Volume Control.  
The link I sent was a direct copy from that webpage at Creative.  Alchemy is an application that enables EAX and 3D environmental audio in packaged games.  What its functionality is in MIDI related music production, I don’t really know.  It may just operate with the games.
I inferred from your post to Graham that you are going to use the card with Ubuntu.  I don’t know what drivers are compatible with that OS.  In Windows, if you have more than one soundcard on the PC, you will have to use the KX Project drivers as Creatives will not work with more than one soundcard.
 
John B.
 


 

From: Roy Radford
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 5:20 AM

To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
 





   Thanks, John, it's always concerned me that a major part of my system, the EAX reverb, depends on a single, more-or-less-obsolete, soundcard. (The USB version of Live! 24.)

   I have a couple of X-Fi cards from e-bay somewhere but the software didn't include EAX and the one I have for the Live! 24 doesn't recognise them.

    Searching the Web brought forth basic drivers I already have but no EAX.

     Just reading your link I'm a bit confused. Is that equivalent to EAX or just a library for an existing EAX to link to?


       Have fun,

           Roy.


--- On Tue, 19/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:



From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 3:43



Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi.  It is the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And there is a download for the installation zip file.

John
-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM



To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
SB Live! 5.1  SB0100  Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector.  And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com.  There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,

I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here.   I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100.  There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it
doesn't
have EAX, at least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!

Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).

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application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
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Paul Kealy
2011-04-20 05:16:21 UTC
Permalink
Thanx for the response, Lynn -
You have been a hero to me since we both began in MidiTzer
in the early days of Bruce's breakthru creation of soundfonts
that led the way to what has become a great appreciation
of a sound that way dying.
 
When I heard the first sounds I became a true enthusiast,
promoting the King of Instruments, and life was changed
for me forever.
 
I was shocked to see that message I sent to an individual
was posted to the entire list (gulp), but having seen your
response has made me very glad I did send it.
 
I have many instruments, creating an organ museum here,
and although it is important for me to promote the freely
downloadable MidiTzer 216 to promote to today's generation
(with Bruce's soundfonts) - I tell folks "If _I_ can do it _Anyone_
can do it" - and I am seeing my music students come alive
with this magniicent tool is wonderful.
 
My touring instrument in the style of a 216 Wurli is powered
by this software, using "blind" registration for my stoptabs
in that replica console design rather than monitors.
 
Yet my larger instrument in a Devtronics console needs
to sound like the 260 I enjoyed with the MidiTzer, however/
although I love those additional ranks, I need SAMs and
other advances beyond the purpose of Esq Jim's design.
 
Also, since I use multiple SoundBlasters, some computers
powering 16 separate amplified speakers for a separate
rank to sing from each speaker cabinet, and my current
one singing through five SB cards for twenty outputs for
the 260, I am creating a couple of winded pipechests to
swap out with speaker ranks - I'll have four ranks of winded
pipes to augment the speakers so people can hear the
actual winded pipes. (I have a stoplist on my website of
a Conn_Tellers combination pipe/speaker organ I enjoyed
back in my University days, that acomplished something
speakers alone do not do as well as I seek to reach out.
 
Again, I prefer to keep it simple enough to encourage
others of today's society to use the same tech to start
their own project, I am content with Bruce Miles' sounds.
He is one dear fellow!

When I first heard them on the MidiTzer it reminded of
years I spent as a kid with Lorin Whitney at his studio -
something those old electroids of the '60's never did,
when I left the organ and went into conducting rather
than organ. Oh, if I could only start over again, I'd
pursue the organ, but I thought it would somehow go
on forever for whoever might be "into" that sound of
Granny's organ or the Lawrence Welk sound with the
light-up buttons and stupid rhythm patterns that were
supposed to make any idiot sound like a polished
musician without devoting any time to practice or
learn music.
 
Bosh! - That kind of thinking alienated the true
musician and discouraged the lazy non-musician
seeking an easy ride to stardom after a few tries.
 
I do have a DIY Artisan organ from that era, a truly
designed theatre organ to appeal more to a true musician.
 
That was back in the "paint by numbers" days that
told people they could replicate Rembrandt without any
painting study. Bosh!
 
Anyhow, my task now is to create my instrument
emulating the 260 with SAM controls and some
pipechest magnets, and I believe MidiBox and jOrgan
can help me complete the project.
 
My biggest question, which I had asked of the original
poster is whether my kX engine with multiple SoundBlasters
(the "anyone can do it, buddy" theme) that works with
MidiTzer will work with j-Organ and further, if it will work
in the Linux arena.
 
I do not use FluidSynth - do not like the lag latency or
whatever. I've written a tutorial how I maximize the use of
soundfonts on each sound card (4 ranks per card, and
since the polyphony is limited whether I use both synths
on a card, I just use synth one), so the larger soundfonts
are shared with simple ones, i.e., cathedral chimes will
not be played as massive chords as some of the fonts
that are doubled over and over and played in chords on
multiple keyboards.
 
MZ is very easy to configure sounds per card that way,
and i pan hard left and right rather than go stereo for
the total number of discrete "pipe" ranks.
 
I have as many as five keyboards on some consoles,
but will only have four here - the three of the 260, plus
a dedicated fourth with GM MIDI and pipe ranks I call
the "antiphol-enchamade" (as I have documented on
my website when I wanted Jim to create a third manual
on MZ in the early days and he refused -  so I created
an hybrid sound to play both classic and cinema on
my first console and it is heavenly!
 
So my question is if kX will co-exist with j-Organ,
and if it will work in Linux, to free up memory that
may become boggled down in the Windows XP Pro
OS that I use in my dedicated MIDI computers now.
 
I was hoping someone had crossed this bridge, and
your encouragement, as always, is a beacon light
to guys like me. I may have to forge out on my own,
but if kX and Linux are incompatible, or if kX does
not work in the J-Organ environment, I'm in a world
apart, having enjoyed the simplicity of multiple SB
capablilites of kX.
 
As soon as I can shrink my tutorial, I'll try to mount
it on my website for your critique, but it is too large
a file with all the graphics and screenshots, or you
would see what I am attempting to "port over," or,
more accurately, to accomplish in the more advanced
j-Organ software and slimmer Linux OS using the 260.
 
I want to reach farther than just the MZ 260, using
SAMS and pipes and hope jOrgan can do that with
MidiBox and multiple soundcards for 20 outputs.
 
I thought I had died and gone to heaven when I used
two SBs for eight outputs (as explained on my website)
for discrete ranks playng through seprate speaker cabs
and when I put four of them there for 16 speakers, since
Creative software does not allow more than two cards,  
it was even more awesome. Now I'm ready for 20 ranks
to sing thru the 260 spec (I enjoyed the additional 10
ranks - especially those cool reeds - in the MZ sample
before it expired on me).
 
I do appreciate the recorder on the MZ that doesn't
seem to be on the jOrgan, though. It's great for my
music students, as well as my touring gigs that
accompany the 12-projector multi-media sing-alongs
that were formerly recorded orchestrations in GM MIDI
tracks.
 
PK
StentorVox.com
 
--- On Tue, 4/19/11, Lynn Walls <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Lynn Walls <***@gmail.com>
Subject: [jOrgan-user] MidiTzer to jOrgan migration (was: Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea)
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, April 19, 2011, 6:23 PM



Paul,

I got started in this VTPO business with MidiTzer, and quickly moved to the MidiTzer 260SP
using Bruce Miles' soundfont and MidiTzer's internal link to Fluidsynth...Then to MidiTzer
260SP using a Creative SoundBlaster hardware synth (both A and B synths on one card 'cause
you need more than 16 channels with MidiTzer 260SP).

Before long I replicated the MidiTzer 260SP ranks and stops in jOrgan (not a trivial
undertaking), still using the Miles cinema soundfont on a SoundBlaster card.

This is where you seem to want to go by your statement: "...porting over from MidiTzer to
jOrgan"  So, to answer your question: It is definitely possible to do achieving nearly
100% of MidiTzer's functionality in jOrgan.  But it is not as trivial an undertaking as
your phrase "porting over" would suggest.  It's a good deal of work to craft the jOrgan
disposition to make it equivalent to the MidiTzer...and at that point you really don't
have anything better than MidiTzer.  If that all you intend to do, you've wasted your time
except for the experience of having done it.

So, the purpose of doing all this, I presume, is to be able to expand your VTPO to
something that has substantially more resources than MidiTzer -- creating additional Ranks
and Stops and even manuals well beyond what MidiTzer has.

The other kind of expansion that jOrgan affords is to be able to play other types of
organs (classical, church, novelty) using .disposition (organ definition) files and
soundfont files built by other people, using your same midi keyboards, switches and
pedals.  As you know, with MidiTzer you are limited to just two possible organs -- the
260SP being an only extension of the original MidiTer.

MidiTzer on steroids is what I did, anyway...

After I got the jOrgan VTPO working substantially the same as MidiTzer, I soon expanded it
to about 30 ranks using theatre organ soundfonts from the Kent Allman web site.  Then Joe
Hardy came along and built some wonderful ranks as GigaSampler files (similar to
soundfonts), and I acquired the GigaStudio Orchestra sampler software to play Hardy's .gig
ranks.  And that's where I am today: a 3/30 Theatre Organ VTPO based on jOrgan and GSO3
and the Joe Hardy .gig ranks -- all evolved from a MidiTzer beginning.

The only path beyond this point (at least in terms of a credible virtual theatre organ) is
to move into the Hauptwerk arena.  As far as I know there is no more work being done to
craft more or better theatre organ ranks in soundfonts or gigasampler files.  All the
theatre organ sampling and sample set building is being done in the Hauptwerk environment.

So, for me, the jOrgan VTPO world has pretty much topped out with the configuration that I
described above.  I don't plan to do much more until after I decide to buy Hauptwerk and
one or more of the Hauptwerk theatre organ sets.  At that point I will probably create a
jOrgan VTPO that "plays" the Hauptwerk organ, rather than use the Hauptwerk
human-interface display screens directly.

I should note that there is only one significant MidiTzer feature that jOrgan cannot
replicate:  the console controlled dynamic scoping (reconfiguring) of the combo pistons. I
really miss this unique MidiTzer feature.  I don't think even Hauptwerk can do this.

CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Paul Kealy
I am just on the verge of porting over from MidiTzer to jOrgan.
Do you know if this will work?
five Live 5.1 SoundBlasters mounted in a specifically MIDI computer
running kX
XP Pro
My other computer uses KX Pro with MidiTzer and works fine
with four SoundBalsters - the one I'm documenting in a tutorial.
I have not attempted Linux at this point,
as I had heard kX is inoperable with kX and multiple SoundBlasters.
I prefer the sound of many ranks from discrete amplified speakers,
Do you know if this will work?
Graham Goode
2011-04-20 06:22:34 UTC
Permalink
Hi Paul,
Anyhow, my task now is to create my instrument
emulating the 260 with SAM controls and some
pipechest magnets, and I believe MidiBox and jOrgan
can help me complete the project.
See http://www.acmeorgan.com/trevordodd/photos.html for a Wurlitzer
(real Pipes) console run using the MidiBox and jOrgan combination :)
My biggest question, which I had asked of the original
poster is whether my kX engine with multiple SoundBlasters
(the "anyone can do it, buddy" theme) that works with
MidiTzer will work with j-Organ and further, if it will work
in the Linux arena.
The 'Creative Driver' for Linux will only load one soundfont per card,
but ALSA provides four MIDI ports of 16 channels each to play it. So
yes, jOrgan can do it with a bit a creativity.
I do not use FluidSynth - do not like the lag latency or
whatever.
FYI - If you're going to move to Linux you'll be moving away from
fluidsynth with latency issues. If you're interested in finding out
more I can point you in the right direction and get you going.
So my question is if kX will co-exist with j-Organ,
and if it will work in Linux, to free up memory that
may become boggled down in the Windows XP Pro
OS that I use in my dedicated MIDI computers now.
In Windows you can create a script to load the soundfonts via the KX
drivers and then access that soundfont with jOrgan. In Linux you'll be
dealing with the ALSA architecture not KX, and a similar situation
applies.
As soon as I can shrink my tutorial, I'll try to mount
it on my website for your critique, but it is too large
a file with all the graphics and screenshots, or you
would see what I am attempting to "port over," or,
more accurately, to accomplish in the more advanced
j-Organ software and slimmer Linux OS using the 260.
If you're using a recent version of OpenOffice/Libre Office or
Microsoft office you might try the 'Save to PDF' option to see what
size that turns out to be. I know in Microsoft Office you do have
options for compression rates and various other things.
I do appreciate the recorder on the MZ that doesn't
seem to be on the jOrgan, though. It's great for my
music students, as well as my touring gigs that
accompany the 12-projector multi-media sing-alongs
that were formerly recorded orchestrations in GM MIDI
tracks.
There is a MIDI recorder available in jOrgan, as well as the option of
using an external MIDI player to play into a jOrgan disposition.

Hope that made sense :)

GrahamG
orgel jeux
2011-04-20 08:08:50 UTC
Permalink
Paul,

We've read earlier about your wonderful creation all based on now rather
"classic" equipment like the SB's and Windows XP.

I am much imressed about it all.

But at the same time, there is the danger of getting trapped into it, as
time goes by.

One thing I have learnt is, never think that what you have accomplished, is
forever, as inevitably good things have to make place for newer things, that
do not always need to be better suited for our tasks.

For (V)PTO and multiple outputs, nowadays you can simply hook up for
instance the M-Audio Profire 2626, and use - that is, if you like its
sounds! - the Paramount.

Nothing to do with complicated dirver issues, OS-issues, etc etc. Just play
and enjoy!

I was nice to read again about how far you have come up that road with the
SB's !!

Greetings,

Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Paul,
Anyhow, my task now is to create my instrument
emulating the 260 with SAM controls and some
pipechest magnets, and I believe MidiBox and jOrgan
can help me complete the project.
See http://www.acmeorgan.com/trevordodd/photos.html for a Wurlitzer
(real Pipes) console run using the MidiBox and jOrgan combination :)
My biggest question, which I had asked of the original
poster is whether my kX engine with multiple SoundBlasters
(the "anyone can do it, buddy" theme) that works with
MidiTzer will work with j-Organ and further, if it will work
in the Linux arena.
The 'Creative Driver' for Linux will only load one soundfont per card,
but ALSA provides four MIDI ports of 16 channels each to play it. So
yes, jOrgan can do it with a bit a creativity.
I do not use FluidSynth - do not like the lag latency or
whatever.
FYI - If you're going to move to Linux you'll be moving away from
fluidsynth with latency issues. If you're interested in finding out
more I can point you in the right direction and get you going.
So my question is if kX will co-exist with j-Organ,
and if it will work in Linux, to free up memory that
may become boggled down in the Windows XP Pro
OS that I use in my dedicated MIDI computers now.
In Windows you can create a script to load the soundfonts via the KX
drivers and then access that soundfont with jOrgan. In Linux you'll be
dealing with the ALSA architecture not KX, and a similar situation
applies.
As soon as I can shrink my tutorial, I'll try to mount
it on my website for your critique, but it is too large
a file with all the graphics and screenshots, or you
would see what I am attempting to "port over," or,
more accurately, to accomplish in the more advanced
j-Organ software and slimmer Linux OS using the 260.
If you're using a recent version of OpenOffice/Libre Office or
Microsoft office you might try the 'Save to PDF' option to see what
size that turns out to be. I know in Microsoft Office you do have
options for compression rates and various other things.
I do appreciate the recorder on the MZ that doesn't
seem to be on the jOrgan, though. It's great for my
music students, as well as my touring gigs that
accompany the 12-projector multi-media sing-alongs
that were formerly recorded orchestrations in GM MIDI
tracks.
There is a MIDI recorder available in jOrgan, as well as the option of
using an external MIDI player to play into a jOrgan disposition.
Hope that made sense :)
GrahamG
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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orgel jeux
2011-04-20 09:57:22 UTC
Permalink
And using jOrgan as a front-end, also driving the pipes, I forgot to
mention.

Geert
Post by orgel jeux
Paul,
We've read earlier about your wonderful creation all based on now rather
"classic" equipment like the SB's and Windows XP.
I am much imressed about it all.
But at the same time, there is the danger of getting trapped into it, as
time goes by.
One thing I have learnt is, never think that what you have accomplished, is
forever, as inevitably good things have to make place for newer things, that
do not always need to be better suited for our tasks.
For (V)PTO and multiple outputs, nowadays you can simply hook up for
instance the M-Audio Profire 2626, and use - that is, if you like its
sounds! - the Paramount.
Nothing to do with complicated dirver issues, OS-issues, etc etc. Just play
and enjoy!
I was nice to read again about how far you have come up that road with the
SB's !!
Greetings,
Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Paul,
Anyhow, my task now is to create my instrument
emulating the 260 with SAM controls and some
pipechest magnets, and I believe MidiBox and jOrgan
can help me complete the project.
See http://www.acmeorgan.com/trevordodd/photos.html for a Wurlitzer
(real Pipes) console run using the MidiBox and jOrgan combination :)
My biggest question, which I had asked of the original
poster is whether my kX engine with multiple SoundBlasters
(the "anyone can do it, buddy" theme) that works with
MidiTzer will work with j-Organ and further, if it will work
in the Linux arena.
The 'Creative Driver' for Linux will only load one soundfont per card,
but ALSA provides four MIDI ports of 16 channels each to play it. So
yes, jOrgan can do it with a bit a creativity.
I do not use FluidSynth - do not like the lag latency or
whatever.
FYI - If you're going to move to Linux you'll be moving away from
fluidsynth with latency issues. If you're interested in finding out
more I can point you in the right direction and get you going.
So my question is if kX will co-exist with j-Organ,
and if it will work in Linux, to free up memory that
may become boggled down in the Windows XP Pro
OS that I use in my dedicated MIDI computers now.
In Windows you can create a script to load the soundfonts via the KX
drivers and then access that soundfont with jOrgan. In Linux you'll be
dealing with the ALSA architecture not KX, and a similar situation
applies.
As soon as I can shrink my tutorial, I'll try to mount
it on my website for your critique, but it is too large
a file with all the graphics and screenshots, or you
would see what I am attempting to "port over," or,
more accurately, to accomplish in the more advanced
j-Organ software and slimmer Linux OS using the 260.
If you're using a recent version of OpenOffice/Libre Office or
Microsoft office you might try the 'Save to PDF' option to see what
size that turns out to be. I know in Microsoft Office you do have
options for compression rates and various other things.
I do appreciate the recorder on the MZ that doesn't
seem to be on the jOrgan, though. It's great for my
music students, as well as my touring gigs that
accompany the 12-projector multi-media sing-alongs
that were formerly recorded orchestrations in GM MIDI
tracks.
There is a MIDI recorder available in jOrgan, as well as the option of
using an external MIDI player to play into a jOrgan disposition.
Hope that made sense :)
GrahamG
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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Rick (greenfox)
2011-04-20 20:55:40 UTC
Permalink
Hello Paul

There are some recent very interesting developments. It seems that
"Fluidsynth" is not the problem, but how "Fluidsynth" connects to the
PC's soundcard in the Windows environment. It is "dsound" that is the
problem.

What this means is that on a Linux operating system Fluidsynth works
well using "JACK" audio.

Recent developments by Graham Goode have created a way for Fluidsynth on
a Windows computer to use ASIO. This works beautifully giving a very
clean sound with no delay. The only problem now for many of us is that
we can only have one instance of Fluidsynth feed one soundcard (or
individual output pair on a multi-channel card).

In your setup with multiple cards you might be able to assign an
instance of Fluidsynth in jOrgan to each individual card however I think
there might be a naming issue they are working on.

Anyway, big progress is being made and you will not need to use legacy
equipment soon.

Regards
Rick
Post by Paul Kealy
I do not use FluidSynth - do not like the lag latency or
whatever. I've written a tutorial how I maximize the use of
soundfonts on each sound card (4 ranks per card, and
since the polyphony is limited whether I use both synths
on a card, I just use synth one), so the larger soundfonts
are shared with simple ones, i.e., cathedral chimes will
not be played as massive chords as some of the fonts
that are doubled over and over and played in chords on
multiple keyboards.
Panos Ghekas
2011-04-20 10:24:28 UTC
Permalink
Lynn,Thanks for sharing your story ! I enjoyed every step of it !
I will add a small thing here that, at Midiger site there's an sf2 bank with real Wurlizer samples (free download) that can replace the one in 216 (I don't have 260 so I don't know if it works there too, but probably will). The sound then is better as we hear real Wurlizer ranks.Paramount 310 free is good too, yes. I'm curious to hear someday on how you managed to control it from jOrgan !
All the bestPanos


--- Óôéò Ôåô., 20/04/11, ï/ç Lynn Walls <***@gmail.com> Ýãñáøå:

Áðü: Lynn Walls <***@gmail.com>
ÈÝìá: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
Ðñïò: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Çìåñïìçíßá: ÔåôÜñôç, 20 Áðñßëéïò 2011, 1:21

Paul,

I got started in this VTPO business with MidiTzer, and quickly moved to the MidiTzer 260SP
using Bruce Miles' soundfont and MidiTzer's internal link to Fluidsynth...Then to MidiTzer
260SP using a Creative SoundBlaster hardware synth (both A and B synths on one card 'cause
you need more than 16 channels with MidiTzer 260SP).

Before long I replicated the MidiTzer 260SP ranks and stops in jOrgan (not a trivial
undertaking), still using the Miles cinema soundfont on a SoundBlaster card.

This is where you seem to want to go by your statement: "...porting over from MidiTzer to
jOrgan"  So, to answer your question: It is definitely possible to do achieving nearly
100% of MidiTzer's functionality in jOrgan.  But it is not as trivial an undertaking as
your phrase "porting over" would suggest.  It's a good deal of work to craft the jOrgan
disposition to make it equivalent to the MidiTzer...and at that point you really don't
have anything better than MidiTzer.  If that all you intend to do, you've wasted your time
except for the experience of having done it.

So, the purpose of doing all this, I presume, is to be able to expand your VTPO to
something that has substantially more resources than MidiTzer -- creating additional Ranks
and Stops and even manuals well beyond what MidiTzer has.

The other kind of expansion that jOrgan affords is to be able to play other types of
organs (classical, church, novelty) using .disposition (organ definition) files and
soundfont files built by other people, using your same midi keyboards, switches and
pedals.  As you know, with MidiTzer you are limited to just two possible organs -- the
260SP being an only extension of the original MidiTer.

MidiTzer on steroids is what I did, anyway...

After I got the jOrgan VTPO working substantially the same as MidiTzer, I soon expanded it
to about 30 ranks using theatre organ soundfonts from the Kent Allman web site.  Then Joe
Hardy came along and built some wonderful ranks as GigaSampler files (similar to
soundfonts), and I acquired the GigaStudio Orchestra sampler software to play Hardy's .gig
ranks.  And that's where I am today: a 3/30 Theatre Organ VTPO based on jOrgan and GSO3
and the Joe Hardy .gig ranks -- all evolved from a MidiTzer beginning.

The only path beyond this point (at least in terms of a credible virtual theatre organ) is
to move into the Hauptwerk arena.  As far as I know there is no more work being done to
craft more or better theatre organ ranks in soundfonts or gigasampler files.  All the
theatre organ sampling and sample set building is being done in the Hauptwerk environment.

So, for me, the jOrgan VTPO world has pretty much topped out with the configuration that I
described above.  I don't plan to do much more until after I decide to buy Hauptwerk and
one or more of the Hauptwerk theatre organ sets.  At that point I will probably create a
jOrgan VTPO that "plays" the Hauptwerk organ, rather than use the Hauptwerk
human-interface display screens directly.

I should note that there is only one significant MidiTzer feature that jOrgan cannot
replicate:  the console controlled dynamic scoping (reconfiguring) of the combo pistons.
I really miss this unique MidiTzer feature.  I don't think even Hauptwerk can do this.

CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Paul Kealy
I am just on the verge of porting over from MidiTzer to jOrgan.
Do you know if this will work?
five Live 5.1 SoundBlasters mounted in a specifically MIDI computer
running kX
XP Pro
My other computer uses KX Pro with MidiTzer and works fine
with four SoundBalsters - the one I'm documenting in a tutorial.
I have not attempted Linux at this point,
as I had heard kX is inoperable with kX and multiple SoundBlasters.
I prefer the sound of many ranks from discrete amplified speakers,
Do you know if this will work?
Paul Kealy
2011-04-20 14:23:16 UTC
Permalink
Geert,
I realize the anti

--- On Wed, 4/20/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:


From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] MidiTzer to jOrgan migration (was: Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea)
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Wednesday, April 20, 2011, 1:08 AM


Paul,

We've read earlier about your wonderful creation all based on now rather "classic" equipment like the SB's and Windows XP.

I am much imressed about it all.

But at the same time, there is the danger of getting trapped into it, as time goes by.

One thing I have learnt is, never think that what you have accomplished, is forever, as inevitably good things have to make place for newer things, that do not always need to be better suited for our tasks.

For (V)PTO and multiple outputs, nowadays you can simply hook up for instance the M-Audio Profire 2626, and use - that is, if you like its sounds! - the Paramount.

Nothing to do with complicated dirver issues, OS-issues, etc etc. Just play and enjoy!

I was nice to read again about how far you have come up that road with the SB's !!

Greetings,

Geert


2011/4/20 Graham Goode <***@gmail.com>

Hi Paul,
Anyhow, my task now is to create my instrument
emulating the 260 with SAM controls and some
pipechest magnets, and I believe MidiBox and jOrgan
can help me complete the project.
See http://www.acmeorgan.com/trevordodd/photos.html for a Wurlitzer
(real Pipes) console run using the MidiBox and jOrgan combination :)
My biggest question, which I had asked of the original
poster is whether my kX engine with multiple SoundBlasters
(the "anyone can do it, buddy" theme) that works with
MidiTzer will work with j-Organ and further, if it will work
in the Linux arena.
The 'Creative Driver' for Linux will only load one soundfont per card,
but ALSA provides four MIDI ports of 16 channels each to play it. So
yes, jOrgan can do it with a bit a creativity.
I do not use FluidSynth - do not like the lag latency or
whatever.
FYI - If you're going to move to Linux you'll be moving away from
fluidsynth with latency issues. If you're interested in finding out
more I can point you in the right direction and get you going.
So my question is if kX will co-exist with j-Organ,
and if it will work in Linux, to free up memory that
may become boggled down in the Windows XP Pro
OS that I use in my dedicated MIDI computers now.
In Windows you can create a script to load the soundfonts via the KX
drivers and then access that soundfont with jOrgan. In Linux you'll be
dealing with the ALSA architecture not KX, and a similar situation
applies.
As soon as I can shrink my tutorial, I'll try to mount
it on my website for your critique, but it is too large
a file with all the graphics and screenshots, or you
would see what I am attempting to "port over," or,
more accurately, to accomplish in the more advanced
j-Organ software and slimmer Linux OS using the 260.
If you're using a recent version of OpenOffice/Libre Office or
Microsoft office you might try the 'Save to PDF' option to see what
size that turns out to be. I know in Microsoft Office you do have
options for compression rates and various other things.
I do appreciate the recorder on the MZ that doesn't
seem to be on the jOrgan, though. It's great for my
music students, as well as my touring gigs that
accompany the 12-projector multi-media sing-alongs
that were formerly recorded orchestrations in GM MIDI
tracks.
There is a MIDI recorder available in jOrgan, as well as the option of
using an external MIDI player to play into a jOrgan disposition.

Hope that made sense :)

GrahamG




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Paul Kealy
2011-04-20 14:53:52 UTC
Permalink
Geert,
 
Valid points all, on which I totally agree.
I have some Atari falcon computers that featured built-in
MIDI ports, back in the days of the Amiga, before IBM
even delved into "personal" computers. It outshone the
Mac with its open architecture, as did the Amiga, that
I also have collected, although I do not use them for
computer applications today.
 
I realize the antiquated SB cards are not really practical,
- they haven't been manufactured for years - and I do adopt
a more current system eventually for some organs, but it
has been fun to see the potential of multiple outputs become
a reality with previous attempts to recreate the song of the
King of Instruments/
 
Also, I do appreciate the joystick means to connect
five keyboards to computer without MIDImerging devices.
 
Like the 25mm slides I use in my 12-projector-Sing-Alongs,
(Momma DID take my Kodachrome away) Kodachrome, as
well as the Carousel projectors that ceased production a
decade ago, are what I refer to as "retro-tech" (rather than
"old-fashioned") are a whole lot more difficult than merely
using PowerPoint to put images on screens, but a real crowd-pleaser.
 
I realize SB cards won't even be available much longer,
but it is fun to use them for some applications, at least for
the time being.
 
I hesitated to even mention this on the list, or bring completion
to the SB tutorial, so I am pushing the proverbial envelope
even to use them, but they do work, and serve as a good
slice of out history for museum displays of how far we've come.
 
More a "both/and," rather than "either/or" concept.
 
And I appreciate those who aren't afraid to share what
I need to know to use this version of outmoded, yet
viable technology.
 
There is a bunch of latest plug-and-play stuff available,
but that is a different display. I still love steam engines
and grandpa's Model T Fords (although I don't drive them
to market) and silent films (although not on a steady diet).
 
Somebody needs to keep awareness of the past, and
when I see the loss of much of it today, stretching my
hands above the keys before I play, I count on my fingers
those ten important words, "if it is to be it is up to me"
Instead of complaining that I did not learn much of all
this sooner, I concentrate on what I can do humbly
in my corner of the kingdom to bring awareness to
today's generation before it is gone forever.
 
PK
StentorVox.com


--- On Wed, 4/20/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] MidiTzer to jOrgan migration To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

<snip>
But at the same time, there is the danger of getting trapped into it, as time goes by.
 
pk wrote:
<snip>
So my question is if kX will co-exist with j-Organ, and if it will work in Linux, ...
orgel jeux
2011-04-20 18:50:52 UTC
Permalink
Yes, Paul,

I also owned two Atari's; payed a lot of money for them but what sharp
monitors they had!

A pity that - unlike Apple - they could not sustain on the market.

many Midi-musicians used them in those days together with the Yamaha and
Roland synths.

Nice to hear about all your musical adventures!

Greetings,

Geert
Post by DellAnderson
Geert,
Valid points all, on which I totally agree.
I have some Atari falcon computers that featured built-in
MIDI ports, back in the days of the Amiga, before IBM
even delved into "personal" computers. It outshone the
Mac with its open architecture, as did the Amiga, that
I also have collected, although I do not use them for
computer applications today.
I realize the antiquated SB cards are not really practical,
- they haven't been manufactured for years - and I do adopt
a more current system eventually for some organs, but it
has been fun to see the potential of multiple outputs become
a reality with previous attempts to recreate the song of the
King of Instruments/
Also, I do appreciate the joystick means to connect
five keyboards to computer without MIDImerging devices.
Like the 25mm slides I use in my 12-projector-Sing-Alongs,
(Momma DID take my Kodachrome away) Kodachrome, as
well as the Carousel projectors that ceased production a
decade ago, are what I refer to as "retro-tech" (rather than
"old-fashioned") are a whole lot more difficult than merely
using PowerPoint to put images on screens, but a real crowd-pleaser.
I realize SB cards won't even be available much longer,
but it is fun to use them for some applications, at least for
the time being.
I hesitated to even mention this on the list, or bring completion
to the SB tutorial, so I am pushing the proverbial envelope
even to use them, but they do work, and serve as a good
slice of out history for museum displays of how far we've come.
More a "both/and," rather than "either/or" concept.
And I appreciate those who aren't afraid to share what
I need to know to use this version of outmoded, yet
viable technology.
There is a bunch of latest plug-and-play stuff available,
but that is a different display. I still love steam engines
and grandpa's Model T Fords (although I don't drive them
to market) and silent films (although not on a steady diet).
Somebody needs to keep awareness of the past, and
when I see the loss of much of it today, stretching my
hands above the keys before I play, I count on my fingers
those ten important words, "if it is to be it is up to me"
Instead of complaining that I did not learn much of all
this sooner, I concentrate on what I can do humbly
in my corner of the kingdom to bring awareness to
today's generation before it is gone forever.
PK
StentorVox.com
<snip>
But at the same time, there is the danger of getting trapped into it, as time goes by.
<snip>
So my question is if kX will co-exist with j-Organ, and if it will work
in Linux, ...
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Roy Radford
2011-04-20 15:49:13 UTC
Permalink
   I think it was adding a soundfont editor to jOrgan... Came courtesy of Jonathan.

     Have fun,

         Roy.


--- On Wed, 20/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:

From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Wednesday, 20 April, 2011, 16:45

By the way, this thread is so old now, does anybody remember what the
original "Far Fetched Idea" was?   Just checking.  My short term memory
problem is working again.

John B.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Karches
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:02 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Jonathan Aquilina
2011-04-20 17:17:26 UTC
Permalink
Yep Roy you hit it right on the head.
Post by Roy Radford
I think it was adding a soundfont editor to jOrgan... Came courtesy
of Jonathan.
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Wednesday, 20 April, 2011, 16:45
By the way, this thread is so old now, does anybody remember what the
original "Far Fetched Idea" was? Just checking. My short term
memory
problem is working again.
John B.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Karches
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting
the value of server virtualization.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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John Beach
2011-04-20 17:32:19 UTC
Permalink
That’s right. It was so “Far Fetched” I couldn’t fetch it! Aging, Aging, Aging........

John B.


From: Jonathan Aquilina
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 1:17 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea

Yep Roy you hit it right on the head.

On 20/04/2011 17:49, Roy Radford wrote:
I think it was adding a soundfont editor to jOrgan... Came courtesy of Jonathan.

Have fun,

Roy.


--- On Wed, 20/4/11, John Beach mailto:***@fairpoint.net wrote:


From: John Beach mailto:***@fairpoint.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Wednesday, 20 April, 2011, 16:45


By the way, this thread is so old now, does anybody remember what the
original "Far Fetched Idea" was? Just checking. My short term memory
problem is working again.

John B.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Karches
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:02 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea


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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy Radford
2011-04-20 19:51:49 UTC
Permalink
   ...Must have been with it momentarily there... Doesn't happen a lot these days!  


        Have fun,

           Roy.


--- On Wed, 20/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Wednesday, 20 April, 2011, 18:17






Yep Roy you hit it right on the head.



On 20/04/2011 17:49, Roy Radford wrote:




   I think it was
adding a soundfont editor to jOrgan... Came courtesy of
Jonathan.



     Have fun,



         Roy.





--- On Wed, 20/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
wrote:



From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea

To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Date: Wednesday, 20 April, 2011, 16:45



By the way, this thread is so old
now, does anybody remember what the

original "Far Fetched Idea" was?   Just checking.  My
short term memory

problem is working again.



John B.



-----Original Message-----

From: Tom Karches

Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:02 AM

To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea





------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial
Workload

Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server
virtualization is a top

priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify
management, and improve

application availability and disaster protection.
Learn more about boosting

the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev

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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Roy Radford
2011-04-21 21:32:23 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Graham,

                  Thanks again for you detailed reply, I now have an SB0100 card.

 Re " [This was after loading the
soundfont using a command line which I have since forgotten)"


    Is there any chance of recovering this information? I've had no luck among the Ubuntu help files so far, and it IS rather fundamental to this approach!


     Have fun,

         Roy.


--- On Tue, 19/4/11, Graham Goode <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Graham Goode <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 11:37

Hi Roy,

Yes.

I tested and reported on this about a year ago, then went on to
develop for fluidsynth due to the greater polyphony and ability to
route through Jack.

But... In my experience , the linux version of the creative extension
for jOrgan can only access one hardware Creative Port, not the four
software ports available in ALSA. [And apparently for the same card in
Windows there are Two Synth Ports that do work with the jOrgan
Creative extension)

When I tested this I found it better to use four Generic Sound
elements in jOrgan configured to VirMIDI ports and then use the
Qjackctl patchbay to connect them to the four Creative Ports available
in the ALSA midi connections tab. [This was after loading the
soundfont using a command line which I have since forgotten)

So for the Soundblaster Live! card you'll see
...
Live [hw:0,0]
Live [hw:0,1]
Live [hw:0,2]
...

which corresponds to what the "amidi -l" command gives :
Dir Device Name
IO hw:0,0 EMU10K1 MPU-401 (UART)
IO hw:0,1 Emu10k1 Synth MIDI (16 subdevices)
IO hw:0,2 Emu10k1 Synth MIDI (16 subdevices)
)

In Jack or using the aplaymidi -l command you will however see FOUR
synth devices.

(listed by the "aplaymidi -l" command)
Port Client name Port name
14:0 Midi Through Midi Through Port-0
16:0 SB Live! 5.1 [SB0220] EMU10K1 MPU-401 (UART)
17:0 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 0
17:1 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 1
17:2 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 2
17:3 Emu10k1 WaveTable Emu10k1 Port 3

But in jOrgan you'll only be able to select the first Synth MIDI port.
Selecting the 2nd will give an error. I don't know if Sven has done
any more work on the Linux version of the Creative extension since
last May, if not, then this is likely what you will find.

Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Sven,
             Can the jOrgan Creative extension load soundfonts under Ubuntu?
     Have fun,
        Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Soundcard drivers and EAX, was: Far fetched idea
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 10:20
   Thanks, John, it's always concerned me that a major part of my system,
the EAX reverb, depends on a single, more-or-less-obsolete, soundcard. (The
USB version of Live! 24.)
   I have a couple of X-Fi cards from e-bay somewhere but the software
didn't include EAX and the one I have for the Live! 24 doesn't recognise
them.
    Searching the Web brought forth basic drivers I already have but no EAX.
     Just reading your link I'm a bit confused. Is that equivalent to EAX or
just a library for an existing EAX to link to?
       Have fun,
           Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 3:43
Well, Roy, there is something called AlChemy that is packaged for some of
the Audigy cards and the X-Fi.  It is the successor to EAX and you can read
about it on the
http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Wiki/OpenAL%20Installer%20for%20Windows.aspx
And there is a download for the installation zip file.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: DellAnderson
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Far fetched idea
Post by Roy Radford
SB Live! 5.1  SB0100  Any of the soundcards before X-Fi has a
MIDI/Gameport
connector.  And all of those can use the KX Project drivers.
Look on eBay.com.  There are always Creative soundcards available there.
I
just checked this morning and there are Audigy 2 ZS and Audigy 4 cards
available at very reasonable prices.
John
Hi John,
I went online too, but I don't think I was bidding against anyone here.   I
couldn't find any Audigy 4 cards wtih MIDI/Gameports, nor did I find any
SB0100.  There are so many variations, and I did see an SB0200 which was
advertised as having EAX but according to the wikipedia site, it doesn't
have EAX, at
  least in chip form (does EAX exist in software as well?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!
Anyway, as usual, I get confused by all the variations and models, none of
the new ones of which appear to be ideal for our purposes (at least
affordably ideal!).
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Far-fetched-idea-tp3455200p3459166.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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