Discussion:
[ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio
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Panos Ghekas
2011-04-11 23:04:34 UTC
Permalink
Hi to all !
 
Jacques sent me his version of Russell Organ model, correcting some mistakes I've made and saving it for 3.13b6, without the effects on console and of course Asio support, as this is available from this morning on !
 
So this is it. For those who want to test I uploaded this new 3.1 version and with the improvements made, this Russell is the best of all so far.
I enjoyed re design it and playing it this afternoon/evening.
Read the "read me" for Jacques' corrections (merci !!) and see and play my version of Sven's new features along with Asio revolution.
 
It works fine here, I hope you will enjoy it too !
 
here :
http://cid-4abbc613d73c4fa0.office.live.com/self.aspx/jOrgan-Panos-Dispositions/St.Clement%5E_Russell%5E_3.13b6FS%5E0Asio.rar
 
All the best
Panos
Marco Francesco
2011-04-12 01:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Hi Panos,

Thanks for that update but I cannot open and play. I keep getting the same
portaudio error message. I have copied the cmd prompt message in another
thread.

Besides, you should include the midi file. This would eliminate one of the
error messages on jOrgan.


Marco

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Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-12 01:31:47 UTC
Permalink
Hello Marco,

The samples in Panos' Russell-Asio disposition are 44.100 kHz samples.
But in the sample rate box of the element Russell Sound Engine 48.000 is
written
Go into construct mode and click on this Russell Sound Engine to open it
Go to the Sample rate box and change the value to 44.100
Also make sure that the sample rate in Jack is also set at 44.100.
Go out of construct mode. The error in the Problem window should now no
longer be there.
If that is the case, save your disposition.

This is how i corrected the problem here.

All the best.

Erik.
----------------------
Post by Marco Francesco
Hi Panos,
Thanks for that update but I cannot open and play. I keep getting the same
portaudio error message. I have copied the cmd prompt message in another
thread.
Besides, you should include the midi file. This would eliminate one of the
error messages on jOrgan.
Marco
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Marco Francesco
2011-04-12 01:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Jack???

Aren't the recent changes for Windows?

Marco

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Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-12 01:50:56 UTC
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I am using Jack under Windows to be able to connect an impulse response
reverberation vst plugin between the fluidsynth audio output and the
input of the sound card.<br>
See Graham Goode's tutorial on this <a
href="http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/jorgan/index.php?title=Instructions_on_using_the_Jack_Audio_Connection_Kit_in_Windows">here</a>
.<br>
If you are not using jack, but send the audio output of fluidsynth
directly to your Asio4all driver, you can forget about Jack settings.<br>
<br>
All the best.<br>
<br>
Erik.<br>
----------------------<br>
Marco Francesco wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:1302572464881-***@n4.nabble.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Jack???

Aren't the recent changes for Windows?

Marco

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Marco Francesco
2011-04-12 02:32:40 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Erik for that clarification.

I think I solved the problem. I re-installed ASIO4ALL including (checking)
the two options that are unchecked by default during installation and
running the program before jOrgan. No hitch after that (so far...!).

Marco

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Panos Ghekas
2011-04-12 06:09:52 UTC
Permalink
Hi Erik, Marco and all
Strange, here new Russell with Asio opens ok and plays immediately.... 
Yeap my samples are 16bit/44100Hz and FS is set at 48.000Hz, but this is not problem here, it helps getting better sound. Also sf2 format can handle different rates together, like for example a preset with 16/44.1 and a preset with 24/48 and play them ok. Russell works ok with both my laps 32 & 64 bit.
Also, I made this version just for use with Asio right away and with its own FS reverb, ie the aim is just click open organ and play without anything else.
Of course one can eliminate FS reverb and then use Jack 1.9.7 (for windows), selecting Jackrouter instead of ASIO4all in the box of Audio Device (Asio is present and controlled by Jack at fixed 512buffer size / 44.100 Hz). 
This as Erik reminded leads the way to external effects, not only reverb but other useful gems like FERIC TDS which emulates the sound of old tape masters without their limitations and with the benefits of digital technology. Sweet solid sound.
I'm planning to include a second disposition file, preset with Jack instead of direct Asio for this use and probably without the FS reverb parameters on console. As I know people ( and myself on certain other apps like Engne v.2) that they open right away Jack on their desk tops before any other app is about to be used, which in turn, is preset with Jackrouter selected. This Jack preselect must be done on any Savihosted VST effect.
Careful settings is the rule as many VSTs when opened with Jack produce some hiss and low noise, not present when opened as VSTs in a Host (like Reaper, Sonar, CuBase ect).Also in a setup with jOrgan/Jack/Effect one must either close dry sound on effect panel or , with Jack control disconnect jOrgan's sound from system and do the mix on effects pannel. Else we come up with more dry signal than wet (=2x dry, 1x wet).
Hmmmm, there are also my two small choir/continuo organs Cronenbourg and St.Guillaume which use one FS instance..... (roll eyes)
BestPanos


--- Óôéò Ôñßô., 12/04/11, ï/ç Erik De Schrijver <***@skynet.be> Ýãñáøå:







I am using Jack under Windows to be able to connect an impulse response
reverberation vst plugin between the fluidsynth audio output and the
input of the sound card.

See Graham Goode's tutorial on this here
.

If you are not using jack, but send the audio output of fluidsynth
directly to your Asio4all driver, you can forget about Jack settings.



All the best.



Erik.

----------------------

Marco Francesco wrote:

Jack???

Aren't the recent changes for Windows?

Marco
orgel jeux
2011-04-12 06:50:04 UTC
Permalink
Panos, Erik,

I want to try again to use ASIO. I see now, that you added ASIO to the
3.13.beta6. But could you tell me if its the 32 or 64 bit/s version??
orgel jeux
2011-04-12 07:04:19 UTC
Permalink
ITs getting more and more strange behaviour over here.

I have v3.12.2 installed in the x86 prog directory. In this same directory
but using a different subfolder I installed a copy and have overwritten the
disp and lib files from the PortaudioASIO download.

In the ASIO install I also placed Arlesheim.


Now when I start jOrgan from the unaltered version, and load this dispo its
ok. But when I start the alterted version, and load the same dispo, it says,
that it is not a valid disposition..........!!

What did I do wrong??
Certainly this dispo is ok, as it is running in the other copy of 3.12.2

Its frustrating, that, although I have a lot of experience using all sorts
of audio software, every time I walk against these
beginners-fault-messages........

Greetings,

Geert
Post by orgel jeux
Panos, Erik,
I want to try again to use ASIO. I see now, that you added ASIO to the
3.13.beta6. But could you tell me if its the 32 or 64 bit/s version??
orgel jeux
2011-04-12 07:19:57 UTC
Permalink
Tried again. Deleted everything.

Took a working version of 3.12.2 and tested with Arlesheim.

unzipped the file jOrgan-fluidsynth-1.11-win-x86-portaudio-ASIO.

Placed the files from the lib inside the lib of the 3.12.2 (overwritten old
files).

Same result, no valid dispo.

I use this arragnement on a WIN7 64 bit/s machine, of course in the x86
program map.

Could it be, that this ASIO adaptation only works in a Windows 32bit/s
installation??????

Greetings,

Geert
Post by orgel jeux
ITs getting more and more strange behaviour over here.
I have v3.12.2 installed in the x86 prog directory. In this same directory
but using a different subfolder I installed a copy and have overwritten the
disp and lib files from the PortaudioASIO download.
In the ASIO install I also placed Arlesheim.
Now when I start jOrgan from the unaltered version, and load this dispo its
ok. But when I start the alterted version, and load the same dispo, it says,
that it is not a valid disposition..........!!
What did I do wrong??
Certainly this dispo is ok, as it is running in the other copy of 3.12.2
Its frustrating, that, although I have a lot of experience using all
sorts of audio software, every time I walk against these
beginners-fault-messages........
Greetings,
Geert
Post by orgel jeux
Panos, Erik,
I want to try again to use ASIO. I see now, that you added ASIO to the
3.13.beta6. But could you tell me if its the 32 or 64 bit/s version??
Graham Goode
2011-04-12 07:33:37 UTC
Permalink
Hi Geert,

Please install the most recent jOrgan 3.13 beta 6 and test with that version.

Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Tried again. Deleted everything.
Took a working version of 3.12.2 and tested with Arlesheim.
unzipped the file jOrgan-fluidsynth-1.11-win-x86-portaudio-ASIO.
Placed the files from the lib inside the lib of the 3.12.2 (overwritten old
files).
Same result, no valid dispo.
I use this arragnement on a WIN7 64 bit/s machine, of course in the x86
program map.
Could it be, that this ASIO adaptation only works in a Windows 32bit/s
installation??????
Greetings,
Geert
orgel jeux
2011-04-12 08:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Ok Graham. I also noticed, just a few moments ago, when playing the working
3.12.2. ( Arlesheim, that I could not save.

So in a short period I came up agansit some classic error messages,
the*unvalid dispo
*, the* error have to close,* AND the* cannot save.*


I think I will have to delete every jOrgan installation on this OS, delete
the registry entry under Java, and start with the latest version ( which I
had installed already..)

Time and again I want to keep the old version before upgrading, specially
when it is a beta release.

Thought I had found it, by placing them on different partition,s different
maps, etc, but somehow - via the registry probably - they all stay connected
and cause these faults I believe now.

I also made a lot of different maps where I put my dispositions, and copies
of them. But I realize, this is also a dangerous situation, as jOrgan when
it saves, does not give me the opportunity to select the saving location.

In fact I am totally unaware of what map it saves in; probably its own
disposition map.

well, at least i am refreshing my memory again concerning the oddities of
jOrgan.

Its a price we have to pay for followingg these rapid - and I must say
impressive - progressions people make towards it.

Its not for long now, that we all play with ASIO, and convolution reverb,
while HW only will have convolution in version 4.....!! ( Although it
permits VSTi usage of course).

Since you did not mention it, I assume I can go on with ASIO install on my
WIN7 64 bit/s ?? Would be nice as it has a better processor and HW-size
memory!

Greetings,

Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Geert,
Please install the most recent jOrgan 3.13 beta 6 and test with that version.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Tried again. Deleted everything.
Took a working version of 3.12.2 and tested with Arlesheim.
unzipped the file jOrgan-fluidsynth-1.11-win-x86-portaudio-ASIO.
Placed the files from the lib inside the lib of the 3.12.2 (overwritten
old
Post by orgel jeux
files).
Same result, no valid dispo.
I use this arragnement on a WIN7 64 bit/s machine, of course in the x86
program map.
Could it be, that this ASIO adaptation only works in a Windows 32bit/s
installation??????
Greetings,
Geert
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
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Graham Goode
2011-04-12 08:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Hi Geert,

Yes, you can use the ASIO PortAudio build on Windows 7 64-bit, so long
as you are using the jOrgan 3.13 betaX 32-bit installation :)

GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Since you did not mention it, I assume I can go on with ASIO install on my
WIN7 64 bit/s ?? Would be nice as it has a better processor and HW-size
memory!
Rick (greenfox)
2011-04-12 08:32:04 UTC
Permalink
Hello Geert

I don't understand why you feel your problems go so deep.

I have been able to get the ASIO output version working by simply
copying my V313b6 folder and renaming it V313b6ASIO. I add the files
Graham has provided and away it goes. I then copy dispositions into a
new folder in My documents so as not to disturb any of the old. I have
at lest 20 versions of jOrgan all ready to open at a moments notice. I
have never had to delete anything out of the registry.

Regards
Rick
Post by orgel jeux
Ok Graham. I also noticed, just a few moments ago, when playing the
working 3.12.2. ( Arlesheim, that I could not save.
So in a short period I came up agansit some classic error messages,
the_unvalid dispo_, the_error have to close,_ AND the_cannot save._
I think I will have to delete every jOrgan installation on this OS,
delete the registry entry under Java, and start with the latest
version ( which I had installed already..)
Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-12 09:03:17 UTC
Permalink
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
Hello Geert,<br>
<br>
I have mostly all jOrgan versions available on the PC here.<br>
I put each jOrgan version in its own subdirectory named e.g.
jOrgan-3.13-beta-6-ASIO, under C:\Program Files (x86)\jOrgan<br>
Under that subdir i have the subdir "dispositions" (and also the docs,
lib, skins ones)<br>
Under dispositions i place in <b>its own subdirectory</b> each organ
disposition with all its files and subdirs e.g.
St.Clement_Russell_3.13b6FS&amp;Asio<br>
<br>
Probaby even better is to place this "dispositions" subdir not under
C:\Program Files (x86), but somewhere else.<br>
<br>
I have for several jOrgan versions an icon on the desktop linked to the
jOrgan.exe file in the appropriate subdirectory for that particular
version of jOrgan.<br>
When opening a jOrgan disposition i avoid using Files/Recent, but use
Files/Open and verify that i open a disposition that resides inside the
correct jOrgan-xxx subdir.<br>
<br>
<b>For all this to work without mixing things up, i think that when
installing a jOrgan version, it is very important <font color="#ff0000">not
to check the box "Associate .disposition files" </font>in the last
window before you click install.</b><br>
<br>
I hope this will help to avoid frustrations in the future.<br>
<br>
All the best.<br>
<br>
Erik.<br>
--------------------------<br>
orgel jeux wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:***@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Ok Graham.&nbsp; I also noticed, just a few moments ago, when
playing the working 3.12.2. ( Arlesheim, that I could not save.<br>
<br>
So in a short period I came up agansit some classic error messages, the<u>
unvalid dispo</u>, the<u> error have to close,</u> AND the<u> cannot
save.</u><br>
<br>
<br>
I think I will have to delete every jOrgan installation on this OS,
delete the registry entry under Java, and start with the latest version
( which I had installed already..)<br>
<br>
Time and again I want to keep the old version before upgrading,
specially when it is a beta release.<br>
<br>
Thought I had found it, by placing them on different partition,s
different maps, etc, but somehow - via the registry probably - they all
stay connected and cause these faults I believe now.<br>
<br>
I also made a lot of different maps where I put my dispositions, and
copies of them. But I realize, this is also a dangerous situation, as
jOrgan when it saves, does not give me the opportunity to select the
saving location.<br>
<br>
In fact I am totally unaware of what map it saves in; probably its own
disposition map.<br>
<br>
well, at least i am refreshing my memory again concerning the oddities
of jOrgan.<br>
<br>
Its a price we have to pay for followingg these rapid - and I must say
impressive - progressions people make towards it.<br>
<br>
Its not for long now, that we all play with ASIO, and convolution
reverb, while HW only will have convolution in version 4.....!!&nbsp; (
Although it permits VSTi usage of course).<br>
<br>
Since you did not mention it, I assume I can go on with ASIO install on
my WIN7 64 bit/s ?? Would be nice as it has a better processor and
HW-size memory!<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
Geert<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/4/12 Graham Goode <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://ggoode.sa">ggoode.sa</a>@<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gmail.com">gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Hi
Geert,<br>
<br>
Please install the most recent jOrgan 3.13 beta 6 and test with that
version.<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
GrahamG<br>
<div class="im"><br>
On 4/12/11, orgel jeux &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:***@gmail.com">***@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Tried again. Deleted everything.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Took a working version of 3.12.2 and tested with Arlesheim.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; unzipped the file jOrgan-fluidsynth-1.11-win-x86-portaudio-ASIO.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Placed the files from the lib inside the lib of the 3.12.2
(overwritten old<br>
&gt; files).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Same result, no valid dispo.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I use this arragnement on a WIN7 64 bit/s machine, of course in
the x86<br>
&gt; program map.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Could it be, that this ASIO adaptation only works in a Windows
32bit/s<br>
&gt; installation??????<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Greetings,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Geert<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and
minutes<br>
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report
as<br>
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.<br>
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and
vision.<br>
Read this report now! &nbsp;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
Read this report now! <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo">http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo</a></pre>
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orgel jeux
2011-04-12 09:58:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi Erik,

I also owe you thanks for the extra attetion you gave.

The part about not activating the checkbox I knew already, but I find it
very useful to compare your installation methods with my own.

I also have different dispositions maps on my PC, in another partition. This
is useful, as I also have the x64 OS on a partition, as some very expensive
audio programs from a few years ago do not install on my WIN7.

Besides I have - on different HD's - 32bit/s OS's, merely to do other
things. In fact I have installed 3 tumbler switches on the front of the PC,
so that I can select which HD's are activated during start-up.

My WIN7/x64 HD is used only for organ playing.

I had also success with playing jOrgan from USB stick. The advantage of
that is, that there is more chance that it stays in order as I pull it out
as soon as I start a different jOrgan.

Well, with all this advice, I will make a new effort.

Thanks again,

Geert
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Hello Geert,
I have mostly all jOrgan versions available on the PC here.
I put each jOrgan version in its own subdirectory named e.g.
jOrgan-3.13-beta-6-ASIO, under C:\Program Files (x86)\jOrgan
Under that subdir i have the subdir "dispositions" (and also the docs, lib,
skins ones)
Under dispositions i place in *its own subdirectory* each organ
disposition with all its files and subdirs e.g.
St.Clement_Russell_3.13b6FS&Asio
Probaby even better is to place this "dispositions" subdir not under
C:\Program Files (x86), but somewhere else.
I have for several jOrgan versions an icon on the desktop linked to the
jOrgan.exe file in the appropriate subdirectory for that particular version
of jOrgan.
When opening a jOrgan disposition i avoid using Files/Recent, but use
Files/Open and verify that i open a disposition that resides inside the
correct jOrgan-xxx subdir.
*For all this to work without mixing things up, i think that when
installing a jOrgan version, it is very important not to check the box
"Associate .disposition files" in the last window before you click
install.*
I hope this will help to avoid frustrations in the future.
All the best.
Erik.
--------------------------
Ok Graham. I also noticed, just a few moments ago, when playing the
working 3.12.2. ( Arlesheim, that I could not save.
So in a short period I came up agansit some classic error messages, the*unvalid dispo
*, the* error have to close,* AND the* cannot save.*
I think I will have to delete every jOrgan installation on this OS, delete
the registry entry under Java, and start with the latest version ( which I
had installed already..)
Time and again I want to keep the old version before upgrading, specially
when it is a beta release.
Thought I had found it, by placing them on different partition,s different
maps, etc, but somehow - via the registry probably - they all stay connected
and cause these faults I believe now.
I also made a lot of different maps where I put my dispositions, and copies
of them. But I realize, this is also a dangerous situation, as jOrgan when
it saves, does not give me the opportunity to select the saving location.
In fact I am totally unaware of what map it saves in; probably its own
disposition map.
well, at least i am refreshing my memory again concerning the oddities of
jOrgan.
Its a price we have to pay for followingg these rapid - and I must say
impressive - progressions people make towards it.
Its not for long now, that we all play with ASIO, and convolution reverb,
while HW only will have convolution in version 4.....!! ( Although it
permits VSTi usage of course).
Since you did not mention it, I assume I can go on with ASIO install on my
WIN7 64 bit/s ?? Would be nice as it has a better processor and HW-size
memory!
Greetings,
Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Geert,
Please install the most recent jOrgan 3.13 beta 6 and test with that version.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Tried again. Deleted everything.
Took a working version of 3.12.2 and tested with Arlesheim.
unzipped the file jOrgan-fluidsynth-1.11-win-x86-portaudio-ASIO.
Placed the files from the lib inside the lib of the 3.12.2 (overwritten
old
Post by orgel jeux
files).
Same result, no valid dispo.
I use this arragnement on a WIN7 64 bit/s machine, of course in the x86
program map.
Could it be, that this ASIO adaptation only works in a Windows 32bit/s
installation??????
Greetings,
Geert
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
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Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
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_______________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
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Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-12 08:22:43 UTC
Permalink
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
Hello Geert,<br>
<br>
No need to get frustrated.<br>
But in order to test, you should have the jOrgan version installed for
which Graham made this FluidSynth-Asio extension.<br>
jOrgan 3.12.x version is not recent enough, it must be 3.13.x at least.<br>
<br>
I quote from Graham's most recent message<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The Fluidsynth Extension that comes with the ASIO and WDMKS portaudio
drivers is only supported by the 32-bit jOrgan 3.13 beta series (and
release once testing and improving have been completed).

Currently only the 32-bit version is available, 64-bit drivers are
being attempted.

Currently the PortAudio driver will only work with a single Fluidsynth
instance. This is a limitation of the PortAudio instantiation and
there is no known work around (yet).
</pre>
</blockquote>
All the best.<br>
<br>
Erik.<br>
----------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
orgel jeux wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:BANLkTi=qW0ALBT9ORUi-MxOn_LDMLSti=***@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Tried again. Deleted everything.<br>
<br>
Took a working version of 3.12.2 and tested with Arlesheim. <br>
<br>
unzipped the file jOrgan-fluidsynth-1.11-win-x86-portaudio-ASIO.<br>
<br>
Placed the files from the lib inside the lib of the 3.12.2 (overwritten
old files).<br>
<br>
Same result, no valid dispo.<br>
<br>
I use this arragnement on a WIN7 64 bit/s machine, of course in the x86
program map.<br>
<br>
Could it be, that this ASIO adaptation only works in a Windows 32bit/s
installation??????<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
Geert<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/4/12 orgel jeux <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:***@gmail.com">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">ITs
getting more and more strange behaviour over here.<br>
<br>
I have v3.12.2 installed in the x86 prog directory. In this same
directory but using a different subfolder I installed a copy and have
overwritten the disp and lib files from the PortaudioASIO download.<br>
<br>
In the ASIO install I also placed Arlesheim.<br>
<br>
<br>
Now when I start jOrgan from the unaltered version, and load this dispo
its ok. But when I start the alterted version, and load the same dispo,
it says, that it is not a valid disposition..........!!<br>
<br>
What did I do wrong??<br>
Certainly this dispo is ok, as it is running in the other copy of 3.12.2<br>
<br>
  Its frustrating, that, although I have a lot of experience using all
sorts of audio software, every time I walk against these
beginners-fault-messages........<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
Geert
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/4/12 orgel jeux <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:***@gmail.com"
target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Panos, Erik,<br>
<br>
I want to try again to use ASIO.  I see now, that you added ASIO to the
3.13.beta6. But could you tell me if its the 32 or 64 bit/s version??<br>
<br>
Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-12 08:12:32 UTC
Permalink
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
I am using the 32 bit version of the FluidSynth-with-Asio extension
Graham made available.<br>
I use it on a Windows 7 64 bit PC.<br>
But jOrgan 3.13-beta6 is used as 32 bit application here.<br>
<br>
All the best.<br>
<br>
Erik.<br>
----------------------------<br>
orgel jeux wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:BANLkTimAgfCVm2Y-7E-***@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Panos, Erik,<br>
<br>
I want to try again to use ASIO.  I see now, that you added ASIO to the
3.13.beta6. But could you tell me if its the 32 or 64 bit/s version??<br>
<br>
Marco Francesco
2011-04-12 08:05:31 UTC
Permalink
Sorry Panos,

When I scrolled through the list, these 2 organs have 2 sf2 files in each
folder: a mono and another stereo... I mistook these as 2x sf2 to be used
together!

Thousand apologies.

Marco

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Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-12 08:07:32 UTC
Permalink
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
Hello Panos,<br>
<br>
You are absolutely right; if using Asio as driver you do not have to
change the sample rate of the FluidSynth Sound Engine in your
Russell-Asio dispo.<br>
It works indeed "out of the box".<br>
I should have added in my comment that i was using Jackrouter as driver
and not Asio. Sorry if i causes
confusion about this.<br>
Only in this case the error message "cannot create fluidsynth" appears
if the value in the Sample rate box of the Fluidsynth Sound Engine
element is not matching the one set in Jack. The value written there
apparently takes precedence over the actual sample rate of the .sf2
file when matching with Jack is concerned.<br>
<br>
All the best.<br>
<br>
Erik.<br>
---------------------------<br>
<br>
Panos Ghekas wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:***@web29110.mail.ird.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; -x-system-font: none;"
valign="top"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'comic sans ms'">Hi
Erik, Marco and all</font>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'comic sans ms'"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'comic sans ms'">Strange,
here new Russell with Asio opens ok and plays immediately.... </font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'comic sans ms'"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'comic sans ms'">Yeap
my samples are 16bit/44100Hz and FS is set at 48.000Hz, but this is not
problem here, it helps getting better sound. Also sf2 format can handle
different rates together, like for example a preset with 16/44.1 and a
preset with 24/48 and play them ok. Russell works ok with both my laps
32 &amp; 64 bit.</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'comic sans ms'"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'comic sans ms'">Also,
I made this version just for use with Asio right away and with its own
FS reverb, ie the aim is just click open organ and play without
anything else.</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'comic sans ms'"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'comic sans ms'">Of
course one can eliminate FS reverb and then use Jack 1.9.7 (for
windows), selecting Jackrouter instead of ASIO4all in the box of Audio
Device (Asio is present and controlled by Jack at fixed 512buffer size
/ 44.100 Hz). </font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'comic sans ms'"><br>
</font></div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
Marco Francesco
2011-04-12 09:31:58 UTC
Permalink
Hi Panos & GrahamG,

I tried again today to play the Russell and I am getting that FS error again
even after opening the ASIO4ALL before as I did yesterday. I am beginning to
doubt how successful I was yesterday as I did not notice any difference
between what I was hearing and my usual setup.

Marco

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Graham Goode
2011-04-12 09:45:03 UTC
Permalink
Hi Marco,

Does the organ work with the usual dsound driver selected?

If so, then select 'file' in the audio driver (to clear the Sound
Card's connection with dsound), then select the portaudio driver and
then the ASIO4ALL audio device. Set your Audio buffers to 8 and your
Audio Buffer size to 512. Then look to see if jOrgan is reporting a
problem with the fluidsynth element.

If it is still reporting a problem, then you are probably running into
an issue caused by the newer Audio driver levels of Windows 7 in which
ASIO4ALL will intermittently work or not work depending on what other
applications have been using the sound interface.

Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Marco Francesco
Hi Panos & GrahamG,
I tried again today to play the Russell and I am getting that FS error again
even after opening the ASIO4ALL before as I did yesterday. I am beginning to
doubt how successful I was yesterday as I did not notice any difference
between what I was hearing and my usual setup.
Marco
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3444118.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
_______________________________________________
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orgel jeux
2011-04-12 10:04:56 UTC
Permalink
Graham, before making MORE mistakes:

I happen to use the EMU0404 USB with its own (ASIO) driver.

So* I do not like to install ASIO4ALL. Do you agree??* And am I right,
that for me there is no benefit in using ASIO4ALL?? As at the moment it is
not possible to use multiple ASIO instances??

I also have the SB AUDIGY 2 ZS Platinum with its own ( ASIO) driver
installed. But I never succeeded in using them under ASIO at the same time,
which is also officially stated aas impossible.

They behave different: EMU does not let you choose SPDIF out when not under
ASIO, while SPDIF out on SB works all the time; I guess it is simply
hardware connected to the front L/R output channels.

Greetings,

Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Marco,
Does the organ work with the usual dsound driver selected?
If so, then select 'file' in the audio driver (to clear the Sound
Card's connection with dsound), then select the portaudio driver and
then the ASIO4ALL audio device. Set your Audio buffers to 8 and your
Audio Buffer size to 512. Then look to see if jOrgan is reporting a
problem with the fluidsynth element.
If it is still reporting a problem, then you are probably running into
an issue caused by the newer Audio driver levels of Windows 7 in which
ASIO4ALL will intermittently work or not work depending on what other
applications have been using the sound interface.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Marco Francesco
Hi Panos & GrahamG,
I tried again today to play the Russell and I am getting that FS error
again
Post by Marco Francesco
even after opening the ASIO4ALL before as I did yesterday. I am beginning
to
Post by Marco Francesco
doubt how successful I was yesterday as I did not notice any difference
between what I was hearing and my usual setup.
Marco
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3444118.html
Post by Marco Francesco
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Marco Francesco
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and
minutes
Post by Marco Francesco
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and
vision.
Post by Marco Francesco
Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
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Graham Goode
2011-04-12 10:16:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi Geert,

As this is a testing version I would like you to test it with the ASIO
hardware that you have available. We know that it works for ASIO4ALL
and JackRouter. So as you have an ASIO driver please see if it works
with them and let us know.

If it does, then you don't need to worry about ASIO4ALL :)

GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
I happen to use the EMU0404 USB with its own (ASIO) driver.
So* I do not like to install ASIO4ALL. Do you agree??* And am I right,
that for me there is no benefit in using ASIO4ALL?? As at the moment it is
not possible to use multiple ASIO instances??
I also have the SB AUDIGY 2 ZS Platinum with its own ( ASIO) driver
installed. But I never succeeded in using them under ASIO at the same time,
which is also officially stated aas impossible.
They behave different: EMU does not let you choose SPDIF out when not under
ASIO, while SPDIF out on SB works all the time; I guess it is simply
hardware connected to the front L/R output channels.
Greetings,
Geert
orgel jeux
2011-04-12 10:28:14 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Graham.

Still a pity that you did not mention which version I had to use.....

And now a NEW SURPIRSE:

This is a copy of the text on the jOrgan download page:

Looking for the* latest version?* Download jOrgan-3.12.2-installer-x86.exe
(3.4 MB)

Home / jorgan-bundle / 3.13
Name Modified Size Status
Parent folder
jOrgan-3.13-beta6.dmg 2011-04-07 3.3 MB i5 downloads
Totals: 1 Item 3.3 MB

THIS is what I see on the download page ....

By some miracle yesterday I managed to download and install the amd64
version, but now that - at last......- I am aware of the fact that I need
the 32 bit/s, I cannot find it on the website. Also no idea what this .dmg
extension is; my WIN7 does not know it.

I remember some link from Dan; must have a look there now. You have no
idea, how many keystrokes and install/delete operations I did for jOrgan the
last 24 hours; its all keeping me from playing the organ.

All in all: if the occasional user like me wants to follow all the newest
things, he ( she) is not actually guided properly on this download
page.........

In that way jOrgan stays. something for insiders. But perhaps thats what is
intended........

greetings, (sore fingers)

Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Geert,
As this is a testing version I would like you to test it with the ASIO
hardware that you have available. We know that it works for ASIO4ALL
and JackRouter. So as you have an ASIO driver please see if it works
with them and let us know.
If it does, then you don't need to worry about ASIO4ALL :)
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
I happen to use the EMU0404 USB with its own (ASIO) driver.
So* I do not like to install ASIO4ALL. Do you agree??* And am I right,
that for me there is no benefit in using ASIO4ALL?? As at the moment it
is
Post by orgel jeux
not possible to use multiple ASIO instances??
I also have the SB AUDIGY 2 ZS Platinum with its own ( ASIO) driver
installed. But I never succeeded in using them under ASIO at the same
time,
Post by orgel jeux
which is also officially stated aas impossible.
They behave different: EMU does not let you choose SPDIF out when not
under
Post by orgel jeux
ASIO, while SPDIF out on SB works all the time; I guess it is simply
hardware connected to the front L/R output channels.
Greetings,
Geert
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
_______________________________________________
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Graham Goode
2011-04-12 10:37:04 UTC
Permalink
Hi Geert,

The jOrgan download page is correct.l jOrgan 3.12.2 is the latest
RELEASE version.

To get to the BETA version you need to navigate the folder structures:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/jorgan-installer/3.13/

Choose the x86 version.

Hope that helps.

GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Thanks Graham.
Still a pity that you did not mention which version I had to use.....
Looking for the* latest version?* Download jOrgan-3.12.2-installer-x86.exe
(3.4 MB)
Home / jorgan-bundle / 3.13
Name Modified Size Status
Parent folder
jOrgan-3.13-beta6.dmg 2011-04-07 3.3 MB i5 downloads
Totals: 1 Item 3.3 MB
THIS is what I see on the download page ....
By some miracle yesterday I managed to download and install the amd64
version, but now that - at last......- I am aware of the fact that I need
the 32 bit/s, I cannot find it on the website. Also no idea what this .dmg
extension is; my WIN7 does not know it.
I remember some link from Dan; must have a look there now. You have no
idea, how many keystrokes and install/delete operations I did for jOrgan the
last 24 hours; its all keeping me from playing the organ.
All in all: if the occasional user like me wants to follow all the newest
things, he ( she) is not actually guided properly on this download
page.........
In that way jOrgan stays. something for insiders. But perhaps thats what is
intended........
greetings, (sore fingers)
Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Geert,
As this is a testing version I would like you to test it with the ASIO
hardware that you have available. We know that it works for ASIO4ALL
and JackRouter. So as you have an ASIO driver please see if it works
with them and let us know.
If it does, then you don't need to worry about ASIO4ALL :)
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
I happen to use the EMU0404 USB with its own (ASIO) driver.
So* I do not like to install ASIO4ALL. Do you agree??* And am I right,
that for me there is no benefit in using ASIO4ALL?? As at the moment it
is
Post by orgel jeux
not possible to use multiple ASIO instances??
I also have the SB AUDIGY 2 ZS Platinum with its own ( ASIO) driver
installed. But I never succeeded in using them under ASIO at the same
time,
Post by orgel jeux
which is also officially stated aas impossible.
They behave different: EMU does not let you choose SPDIF out when not
under
Post by orgel jeux
ASIO, while SPDIF out on SB works all the time; I guess it is simply
hardware connected to the front L/R output channels.
Greetings,
Geert
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
_______________________________________________
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Marco Francesco
2011-04-12 10:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi Graham,

dsound works fine. Followed your instructions with no success. I get this on
cmd prompt:


C:\Users\Mark\Desktop>"C:\Program Files
(x86)\Java(32)1.6.24\jre6\bin\java.exe"
-jar "C:\Program Files (x86)\jOrgan 3.13.6 (ASIO)\jorgan.jar"
before paHostApiInitializers[0].
ASIO names[0]:ASIO4ALL v2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 name = ASIO4ALL v2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 inputChannels = 2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 outputChannels = 2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferMinSize = 64
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferMaxSize = 2048
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferPreferredSize = 512
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferGranularity = 8
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultSampleRate = 8000.000000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultLowInputLatency = 0.064000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultLowOutputLatency = 0.064000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultHighInputLatency = 0.192000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultHighOutputLatency = 0.192000
after paHostApiInitializers[0].
TerminateHostApis in
TerminateHostApis out
DumpTraceMessages: traceIndex = 0
before paHostApiInitializers[0].
ASIO names[0]:ASIO4ALL v2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 name = ASIO4ALL v2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 inputChannels = 2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 outputChannels = 2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferMinSize = 64
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferMaxSize = 2048
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferPreferredSize = 512
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferGranularity = 8
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultSampleRate = 8000.000000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultLowInputLatency = 0.064000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultLowOutputLatency = 0.064000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultHighInputLatency = 0.192000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultHighOutputLatency = 0.192000
after paHostApiInitializers[0].
ASIOCanSampleRate(44100.000000):-995
ERROR: ASIOCanSampleRate: Sample clock or rate cannot be determined or is
not pr
esent
goto errored
fluidsynth: error: Error opening PortAudio stream: Invalid sample rate
TerminateHostApis in
TerminateHostApis out
DumpTraceMessages: traceIndex = 0
before paHostApiInitializers[0].
ASIO names[0]:ASIO4ALL v2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 name = ASIO4ALL v2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 inputChannels = 2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 outputChannels = 2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferMinSize = 64
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferMaxSize = 2048
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferPreferredSize = 512
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferGranularity = 8
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultSampleRate = 8000.000000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultLowInputLatency = 0.064000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultLowOutputLatency = 0.064000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultHighInputLatency = 0.192000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultHighOutputLatency = 0.192000
after paHostApiInitializers[0].
TerminateHostApis in
TerminateHostApis out
DumpTraceMessages: traceIndex = 0
before paHostApiInitializers[0].
ASIO names[0]:ASIO4ALL v2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 name = ASIO4ALL v2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 inputChannels = 2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 outputChannels = 2
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferMinSize = 64
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferMaxSize = 2048
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferPreferredSize = 512
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 bufferGranularity = 8
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultSampleRate = 8000.000000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultLowInputLatency = 0.064000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultLowOutputLatency = 0.064000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultHighInputLatency = 0.192000
PaAsio_Initialize: drv:0 defaultHighOutputLatency = 0.192000
after paHostApiInitializers[0].
ASIOCanSampleRate(44100.000000):-995
ERROR: ASIOCanSampleRate: Sample clock or rate cannot be determined or is
not pr
esent
goto errored
fluidsynth: error: Error opening PortAudio stream: Invalid sample rate
TerminateHostApis in
TerminateHostApis out
DumpTraceMessages: traceIndex = 0

Regards
Marco
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Marco,
Does the organ work with the usual dsound driver selected?
If so, then select 'file' in the audio driver (to clear the Sound
Card's connection with dsound), then select the portaudio driver and
then the ASIO4ALL audio device. Set your Audio buffers to 8 and your
Audio Buffer size to 512. Then look to see if jOrgan is reporting a
problem with the fluidsynth element.
If it is still reporting a problem, then you are probably running into
an issue caused by the newer Audio driver levels of Windows 7 in which
ASIO4ALL will intermittently work or not work depending on what other
applications have been using the sound interface.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
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Panos Ghekas
2011-04-12 08:04:08 UTC
Permalink
Geert,You're not paying attention, probably from excitement..... :-D
Yesterday night I posted you here : doesn't work with 3.12.x I've been there !
Also you saw that Erik and I (both 64bit win7, as you !) got the thing working and posted how we did : Install 3.13 beta 6 (x86) on win7 64bit system where Asio4all VERSION 2.10 (not the older 2 - Marco had discovered an issue a couple a months back) is installed and works - I assume you got it as you run HW3....
Then it's easy. Open Arlesheim in 3.13b6(x86) > construct mode > FS properties > Driver > set Portaudio, enter > Audio device > ASIO4all, enter > Play mode > save dispo > enjoy !
I just want you to have fun with jOrgan/FS/Asio setup, now !!
best, alwaysPanos

--- Óôéò Ôñßô., 12/04/11, ï/ç orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> Ýãñáøå:



Tried again. Deleted everything.

Took a working version of 3.12.2 and tested with Arlesheim.

unzipped the file jOrgan-fluidsynth-1.11-win-x86-portaudio-ASIO.

Placed the files from the lib inside the lib of the 3.12.2 (overwritten old files).


Same result, no valid dispo.

I use this arragnement on a WIN7 64 bit/s machine, of course in the x86 program map.

Could it be, that this ASIO adaptation only works in a Windows 32bit/s installation??????


Greetings,

Geert
orgel jeux
2011-04-12 09:50:21 UTC
Permalink
Panos, many many thanks for your reply.......

Indeed, as I said yesterday night, there was soooo muuuuch information about
this breakthrough, that I missed some critical information.
Also a lot of noise.......

It is also not in the Instructions from Graham. I guess he assumes we all
and always migrate to the newest release??

Well, anyhow, its time I delete some old versions and concentrate on the
latest.

Greetings,

Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Geert,
You're not paying attention, probably from excitement..... :-D
Yesterday night I posted you here : doesn't work with 3.12.x I've been there !
Also you saw that Erik and I (both 64bit win7, as you !) got the thing
Install 3.13 beta 6 (x86) on win7 64bit system where Asio4all VERSION 2.10
(not the older 2 - Marco had discovered an issue a couple a months back) is
installed and works - I assume you got it as you run HW3....
Then it's easy. Open Arlesheim in 3.13b6(x86) > construct mode > FS
properties > Driver > set Portaudio, enter > Audio device > ASIO4all, enter
Post by Panos Ghekas
Play mode > save dispo > enjoy !
I just want you to have fun with jOrgan/FS/Asio setup, now !!
best, always
Panos
Tried again. Deleted everything.
Took a working version of 3.12.2 and tested with Arlesheim.
unzipped the file jOrgan-fluidsynth-1.11-win-x86-portaudio-ASIO.
Placed the files from the lib inside the lib of the 3.12.2 (overwritten old files).
Same result, no valid dispo.
I use this arragnement on a WIN7 64 bit/s machine, of course in the x86 program map.
Could it be, that this ASIO adaptation only works in a Windows 32bit/s installation??????
Greetings,
Geert
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Panos Ghekas
2011-04-12 08:17:16 UTC
Permalink
No problem Marco !
it was an old story.... I started with a mono sf2 on these two and without any envelope releases in sf2 construction(Viena) and after some very usefull discussion here, mostly led by John Reimer (Thanks !), I returned to redesign the sf2s with release and with stereo panning of the mono samples.Probably I forgot the old one inside...... (rolleyes), thanks for pointing out !
After Obie, I'll update those two to 3.13b6/Asio & 3.13b6/Jack for windows, too.
BestPanos

--- Óôéò Ôñßô., 12/04/11, ï/ç Marco Francesco <***@gmail.com> Ýãñáøå:

When I scrolled through the list, these 2 organs have 2 sf2 files in each
folder: a mono and another stereo... I mistook these as 2x sf2 to be used
together!
Panos Ghekas
2011-04-12 08:37:59 UTC
Permalink
Hi Erik,Thanks.
Hmmm, I'm glad it works out of the box, so this leads me to consider again and propose a better algorithm in FS reverb module. I cannot think FS devs are unable to do  it. For example MULab for windows has MUVerb inside, now they made it a separate VST. It's simple and usefull if one cannot handle the large memory needed for Impulse Responce files on a convolver app.There are many other too and good.
This way we can split routes : A. one dispo out of the box preset with Asio and offering HQ sound (all in one) and B. one dispo preset with Jack for further setup by the user and reach the ultimate up to date quality.
As Geert said, is an oportunity to send now jOrgan to the top of standalone VPO/VTPO genre (as midi relay it still is...).
We can have it all here . Also I found that sf2 can play very good note by note sampled ranks, after carefull design. But I cannot find a way to create multi release function... only one relese samples layer to work OK. If I could make a Round Robin would be possible but not quite realistic.....
Best to youPanos

--- Óôéò Ôñßô., 12/04/11, ï/ç Erik De Schrijver <***@skynet.be> Ýãñáøå:


You are absolutely right; if using Asio as driver you do not have to
change the sample rate of the FluidSynth Sound Engine in your
Russell-Asio dispo.

It works indeed "out of the box".

I should have added in my comment that i was using Jackrouter as driver
and not Asio. Sorry if i causes
confusion about this.

Only in this case the error message "cannot create fluidsynth" appears
if the value in the Sample rate box of the Fluidsynth Sound Engine
element is not matching the one set in Jack. The value written there
apparently takes precedence over the actual sample rate of the .sf2
file when matching with Jack is concerned.



All the best.



Erik.
Roy Radford
2011-04-12 09:47:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Marco,

               This raises a point which I can't seem to make up my mind on. Way back in the past I and, I believe, most others used to organise the jOrgan setup with a subfolder for dispositions and another for Soundfonts, ditto for skins, i.e. it was RESOURCES rather than DISPOSITIONS which were grouped together.

    Lately the practice seems to be to include the relevant skins and soundfonts in the particular disposition's folder. What do you think is best? It seems to me that recently there have become far more skins and soundfonts which are designed for a particular disposition, rather than generic Theatre/Classic/etc.

     Have fun,

        Roy.



--- On Tue, 12/4/11, Marco Francesco <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Marco Francesco <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 9:05

Sorry Panos,

When I scrolled through the list, these 2 organs have 2 sf2 files in each
folder: a mono and another stereo... I mistook these as 2x sf2 to be used
together!

Thousand apologies.

Marco

--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3443973.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
orgel jeux
2011-04-12 10:12:59 UTC
Permalink
Roy,

As you may have noticed, I oversaw some advices and am having some trouble
installing newer versions.

BUT: in all this trouble I find it very conveneint to have the soundbanks
and skins inside the specific disposition folder, as now I NEVER need to
point jOrgan to the specific skin and sounds after installation; something I
found very nasty in the past.

Happy playing,

Geert
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Marco,
This raises a point which I can't seem to make up my mind
on. Way back in the past I and, I believe, most others used to organise the
jOrgan setup with a subfolder for dispositions and another for Soundfonts,
ditto for skins, i.e. it was RESOURCES rather than DISPOSITIONS which were
grouped together.
Lately the practice seems to be to include the relevant skins and
soundfonts in the particular disposition's folder. What do you think is
best? It seems to me that recently there have become far more skins and
soundfonts which are designed for a particular disposition, rather than
generic Theatre/Classic/etc.
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio
Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 9:05
Sorry Panos,
When I scrolled through the list, these 2 organs have 2 sf2 files in each
folder: a mono and another stereo... I mistook these as 2x sf2 to be used
together!
Thousand apologies.
Marco
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3443973.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
_______________________________________________
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Roy Radford
2011-04-12 10:17:36 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Geert,

               I believe that depends whether the disposition is setup for relative or absolute paths but I'm not sure how you do that.


     Have fun,

         Roy.


--- On Tue, 12/4/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 11:12

Roy,

As you  may have noticed, I oversaw some advices and am having some trouble installing newer versions.

BUT:  in all this trouble I find it very conveneint to have the soundbanks and skins inside the specific disposition folder, as now I NEVER need to point jOrgan to the specific skin and sounds after installation; something I found very nasty in the past.


Happy playing,

Geert

2011/4/12 Roy Radford <***@yahoo.co.uk>

Hi, Marco,

               This raises a point which I can't seem to make up my mind on. Way back in the past I and, I believe, most others used to organise the jOrgan setup with a subfolder for dispositions and another for Soundfonts, ditto for skins, i.e. it was RESOURCES rather than DISPOSITIONS which were grouped together.


    Lately the practice seems to be to include the relevant skins and soundfonts in the particular disposition's folder. What do you think is best? It seems to me that recently there have become far more skins and soundfonts which are designed for a particular disposition, rather than generic Theatre/Classic/etc.


     Have fun,

        Roy.



--- On Tue,
12/4/11, Marco Francesco <***@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Marco Francesco <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 9:05

Sorry Panos,

When I scrolled through the list, these 2 organs have 2 sf2 files in each
folder: a mono and another stereo... I mistook these as 2x sf2 to be used

together!

Thousand apologies.

Marco

--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3443973.html

Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as

part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
Read this report now!  http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo

_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes

not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as

part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.

Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.

Read this report now!  http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
_______________________________________________

jOrgan-user mailing list

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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
orgel jeux
2011-04-12 10:42:53 UTC
Permalink
orgel jeux
2011-04-12 10:47:21 UTC
Permalink
Chester Berry
2011-04-17 04:23:30 UTC
Permalink
________________________________
From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 3:42:53 AM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for
3.13beta6 with Asio

Roy,

It's all staying too much inner-workings, jOrgan, nowadays. I cannot cope with
it anymore it seems.


... ( I think there are only some 10 people nowadays that are intensively
communicating and attributing to jOrgan actually..) this is probably what they
like most, but I have this double feeling, that on one hand I like to follow
everything, and I also like some dispositions very much, and on the other hand I
am only a user.

How many quiet users of jOrgan are there?? I know a few that have VERY old
versions and dispositions.

May I pose, that I am certain there are not many quiet users out there, who
constantly upgrade, simply becasue we do not hear them, and they cannot ALL be
so much more clever that I ??? --::))

Well, back to business, I MUST get this ASIO thing working..!! ( haveyou
already????)

Have fun,

Geert

A "QUIET USER" RESPONDS

Since the topic came up...

I cannot speak for why others may have been silent on this list,
but only for myself.

It MOST CERTAINLY was NOT because of any dissatisfaction with what was on the
list or with those posting it.

My assessment of the situation from reading through the postings was that
enormous progress was being made towards even better sound from the collection
of programs used with jOrgan:

Alternatives to Fluidsynth were being explored.
Better reverberation was being developed, both in Fluidsynth and in other
programs.
Problems under Ubuntu 10.10, which appear to be connected with Jack and/or with
incompatibilities between Jack and other programs were being examined, and there
was hope that these issues would be resolved in the next major release of
Ubuntu.

The anticipated result is to be a new release of jOrgan offering greater ease in
selection which synthesizer would be used, and better control of the features in
it.

Relatively few of the current members appear to have the depth of understanding
of jOrgan and/or the other programs used with it (Jack, synthesizers) to
intelligently participate in the current testing. I certainly suspect that I
lack it. It seemed the wisest course was for me to continue studying the
current release of jOrgan, particularly the Lucid Puppy Linux CD image released
by Graham Goode three months ago. While I've had some questions, examination of
postings on the list have so far answered all but one, and that one was most
kindly and promptly answered by Graham Goode.

I remain extremely supportive of the enormous effort being made by Sven and the
more prevalent posters on the list to provide an even better jOrgan in the
future. As this posting would suggest, I read through each post, though I would
admit that some of the postings dealing with more detailed technical issues I do
not fully understand. Any silence on my part is an attempt to avoid distracting
those making these efforts, and MOST CERTAINLY NOT any unhappiness on my part.
Indeed, I MOST HAPPILY look forward to an even better jOrgan!

I hope this provides encouragement to all those making enormous efforts to
advance jOrgan.

Very best wishes to all!
/s/Chester H Berry
Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
(but currently in the Arizona mountains at a family event! Thus the delay in
this response)
John Beach
2011-04-17 07:33:07 UTC
Permalink
While having experienced no success at all with the attempt to make the JackAudio for Fluidsynth work in jOrgan, I have the same sentiments about the future of jOrgan and
the work being done to improve sound output as those expressed by Chester.
Perhaps if the necessary parts are packaged as a one-click installation that is as simplified as much as it can be, more users will be encouraged to make use of it. I found that having four or five related applications running on the desktop and trying to configure the settings for each in order to get sound output with jOrgan was rather taxing, to say the least.
One exasperating realization is that, while software makes the increase in polyphony with fluidsynth the preferred reality, the quality of sound output in Creative sound is still very superior. It is incongruous to me, since the soundcard hardware outputs the sound, why there is a polyphony limitation with Creative Sound that can be overcome by a software program such as fluidsynth. Or why the quality of sound output by fluidsynth should be inferior while its ability to deal with polyphony demands is far greater, and, all of this out of the same hardware capabilities or limitations.
So the idea of having four or five inter-related applications running in support of sound output for jOrgan Fluidsynth dispositions seemed just a bit “Rube Goldbergish” to me and it comes down to a question of whether one wants increased polyphony or higher sound quality and the difficulties in making a marriage of the two, i.e. higher sound quality and greater polyphony. Seemingly, Creative Labs COULD write a driver that would do all of this since their hardware is capable of outputting both the higher sound quality and the greater polyphony made possible by software manipulation of that hardware.
Again, I think a “one-package” installation for portaudio capabilities in jOrgan would make it more accessible and feasible for more users. The configuring of input and output connections to the various inter-related parts was a somewhat daunting task for a non-geek and the K.I.S.S. maxim, “Keep it simple, Stupid!” needs to apply so that success is a more effortless reward.

John Beach



I remain extremely supportive of the enormous effort being made by Sven and the more prevalent posters on the list to provide an even better jOrgan in the future. As this posting would suggest, I read through each post, though I would admit that some of the postings dealing with more detailed technical issues I do not fully understand. Any silence on my part is an attempt to avoid distracting those making these efforts, and MOST CERTAINLY NOT any unhappiness on my part. Indeed, I MOST HAPPILY look forward to an even better jOrgan!

I hope this provides encouragement to all those making enormous efforts to advance jOrgan.

Very best wishes to all!
/s/Chester H Berry
Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
(but currently in the Arizona mountains at a family event! Thus the delay in this response)
Sven Meier
2011-04-17 07:57:31 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

hopefully jOrgan will provide a better out-of-box experience with
Fluidsynth/PortAudio/WDMKS support soon.
Regarding support for ASIO there's already something interesting to read
here:

http://wiki.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=ASIO_Audio_Interface

IMHO the same applies to the jOrgan-ASIO combination.

Best regards

Sven
Post by John Beach
While having experienced no success at all with the attempt to make
the JackAudio for Fluidsynth work in jOrgan, I have the same
sentiments about the future of jOrgan and
the work being done to improve sound output as those expressed by Chester.
Perhaps if the necessary parts are packaged as a one-click
installation that is as simplified as much as it can be, more users
will be encouraged to make use of it. I found that having four or
five related applications running on the desktop and trying to
configure the settings for each in order to get sound output with
jOrgan was rather taxing, to say the least.
One exasperating realization is that, while software makes the
increase in polyphony with fluidsynth the preferred reality, the
quality of sound output in Creative sound is still very superior. It
is incongruous to me, since the soundcard hardware outputs the sound,
why there is a polyphony limitation with Creative Sound that can be
overcome by a software program such as fluidsynth. Or why the
quality of sound output by fluidsynth should be inferior while its
ability to deal with polyphony demands is far greater, and, all of
this out of the same hardware capabilities or limitations.
So the idea of having four or five inter-related applications running
in support of sound output for jOrgan Fluidsynth dispositions seemed
just a bit “Rube Goldbergish” to me and it comes down to a question of
whether one wants increased polyphony or higher sound quality and the
difficulties in making a marriage of the two, i.e. higher sound
quality and greater polyphony. Seemingly, Creative Labs COULD write a
driver that would do all of this since their hardware is capable of
outputting both the higher sound quality and the greater polyphony
made possible by software manipulation of that hardware.
Again, I think a “one-package” installation for portaudio capabilities
in jOrgan would make it more accessible and feasible for more users.
The configuring of input and output connections to the various
inter-related parts was a somewhat daunting task for a non-geek and
the K.I.S.S. maxim, “Keep it simple, Stupid!” needs to apply so that
success is a more effortless reward.
John Beach
I remain extremely supportive of the enormous effort being made by
Sven and the more prevalent posters on the list to provide an even
better jOrgan in the future. As this posting would suggest, I read
through each post, though I would admit that some of the postings
dealing with more detailed technical issues I do not fully
understand. Any silence on my part is an attempt to avoid distracting
those making these efforts, and MOST CERTAINLY NOT any unhappiness on
my part. Indeed, I MOST HAPPILY look forward to an even better jOrgan!
I hope this provides encouragement to all those making enormous efforts to advance jOrgan.
Very best wishes to all!
/s/Chester H Berry
Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
(but currently in the Arizona mountains at a family event! Thus the
delay in this response)
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BCA
2011-04-17 09:14:22 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sven,

on my system, WDMKS offers fantastic results on Windows systems. The
convenient driver support for especially older and matured hardware products
in Windows, currently avoids a better spreading of Linux based setups.
Hopefully this will be improved in future.

Regards
Bernd.

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Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-17 09:44:27 UTC
Permalink
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
Hello Sven,<br>
<br>
I think it is wise to point us to this wiki page.<br>
<br>
Can the fluidsynth extension be distributed under another license (i.e.
not GPL but other type) so that it can be made available?<br>
<br>
Does the restriction equally apply for the WDMKS version of the
fluidsynth extension?<br>
<br>
Erik.<br>
---------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Sven Meier wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:***@meiers.net" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
Hi all,<br>
<br>
hopefully jOrgan will provide a better out-of-box experience with
Fluidsynth/PortAudio/WDMKS support soon.<br>
Regarding support for ASIO there's already something interesting to
read here:<br>
<br>
    <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://wiki.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=ASIO_Audio_Interface">http://wiki.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=ASIO_Audio_Interface</a><br>
<br>
IMHO the same applies to the jOrgan-ASIO combination.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Sven<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
Graham Goode
2011-04-17 10:23:29 UTC
Permalink
Hi Guys,

Sven is absolutely right about the current state of affairs with
Stienberg ASIO vs GPL. There are three solutions that various projects
have used:

1) The first is the 'compile the support yourself' - which a lot of
GPL projects use (Audacity being one).

2) The second is as Erik suggests - use a different license. The
problem with this is that Fluidsynth is distributed under the GPL/LGPL
license and so even if Sven were to change the license of the
fluidsynth extension in jOrgan to a 'GPL with ASIO exclusion' it would
violate fluidsynth's license. If the fluidsynth developers would
release fluidsynth under an 'GPL\LGPL with ASIO exclusion' license,
and Sven were to release jOrgan with the fluidsynth extension having a
similar license, then it would be possible. I can say that some
fluidsynth devs do not agree with the Stienberg license, so this is
unlikely to happen.

3) The third option is for a third-party (like me) to provide a
separate download of the portaudio dll, with a disclaimer stating that
it contains the ASIO drivers built with the Stienberg ASIO SDK.
PortAudio's license is not GPL (they use the plain MIT license), so
that dll can be distributed without violating any license restriction,
until such time as Steinberg changes their license (I've been waiting
for them to change it for years... so please go the the Audacity page,
and read up on it, and then send Stienberg a message asking them to
release an ASIO SDK under a GPL compatible license).

So, WDMKS\WaveRT\WASAPI\Dsound are all from the various Microsoft SDKs
that don't have the restrictions that ASIO have, and Sven can produce
and release a PortAudio build with jOrgan that contains them.

Eventually we want native Jack support in Fluidsynth in Windows, which
can also then be built and distributed with jOrgan.

Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Hello Sven,
I think it is wise to point us to this wiki page.
Can the fluidsynth extension be distributed under another license (i.e. not
GPL but other type) so that it can be made available?
Does the restriction equally apply for the WDMKS version of the fluidsynth
extension?
Erik.
Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-17 10:47:52 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Graham for this clarification.

All the best.

Erik.
-------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Guys,
Sven is absolutely right about the current state of affairs with
Stienberg ASIO vs GPL. There are three solutions that various projects
1) The first is the 'compile the support yourself' - which a lot of
GPL projects use (Audacity being one).
2) The second is as Erik suggests - use a different license. The
problem with this is that Fluidsynth is distributed under the GPL/LGPL
license and so even if Sven were to change the license of the
fluidsynth extension in jOrgan to a 'GPL with ASIO exclusion' it would
violate fluidsynth's license. If the fluidsynth developers would
release fluidsynth under an 'GPL\LGPL with ASIO exclusion' license,
and Sven were to release jOrgan with the fluidsynth extension having a
similar license, then it would be possible. I can say that some
fluidsynth devs do not agree with the Stienberg license, so this is
unlikely to happen.
3) The third option is for a third-party (like me) to provide a
separate download of the portaudio dll, with a disclaimer stating that
it contains the ASIO drivers built with the Stienberg ASIO SDK.
PortAudio's license is not GPL (they use the plain MIT license), so
that dll can be distributed without violating any license restriction,
until such time as Steinberg changes their license (I've been waiting
for them to change it for years... so please go the the Audacity page,
and read up on it, and then send Stienberg a message asking them to
release an ASIO SDK under a GPL compatible license).
So, WDMKS\WaveRT\WASAPI\Dsound are all from the various Microsoft SDKs
that don't have the restrictions that ASIO have, and Sven can produce
and release a PortAudio build with jOrgan that contains them.
Eventually we want native Jack support in Fluidsynth in Windows, which
can also then be built and distributed with jOrgan.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Hello Sven,
I think it is wise to point us to this wiki page.
Can the fluidsynth extension be distributed under another license (i.e. not
GPL but other type) so that it can be made available?
Does the restriction equally apply for the WDMKS version of the fluidsynth
extension?
Erik.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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orgel jeux
2011-04-18 08:35:45 UTC
Permalink
For what I understand of this lawyer-language, and since WDM/KS already
gives no latency, the latter is the way to go, and to extend in such a way,
that it can be used multiple times and assigned to soundcard channels.

For me it seems, that ASIO is not needed, but it could also work out,
portaudio/ASIO is the only one that - when improved - couldbethe only one
that recognises all soundcard channels properly.

Thanks for the explanaitons Graham,

greetings,

Geert
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Thanks Graham for this clarification.
All the best.
Erik.
-------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Guys,
Sven is absolutely right about the current state of affairs with
Stienberg ASIO vs GPL. There are three solutions that various projects
1) The first is the 'compile the support yourself' - which a lot of
GPL projects use (Audacity being one).
2) The second is as Erik suggests - use a different license. The
problem with this is that Fluidsynth is distributed under the GPL/LGPL
license and so even if Sven were to change the license of the
fluidsynth extension in jOrgan to a 'GPL with ASIO exclusion' it would
violate fluidsynth's license. If the fluidsynth developers would
release fluidsynth under an 'GPL\LGPL with ASIO exclusion' license,
and Sven were to release jOrgan with the fluidsynth extension having a
similar license, then it would be possible. I can say that some
fluidsynth devs do not agree with the Stienberg license, so this is
unlikely to happen.
3) The third option is for a third-party (like me) to provide a
separate download of the portaudio dll, with a disclaimer stating that
it contains the ASIO drivers built with the Stienberg ASIO SDK.
PortAudio's license is not GPL (they use the plain MIT license), so
that dll can be distributed without violating any license restriction,
until such time as Steinberg changes their license (I've been waiting
for them to change it for years... so please go the the Audacity page,
and read up on it, and then send Stienberg a message asking them to
release an ASIO SDK under a GPL compatible license).
So, WDMKS\WaveRT\WASAPI\Dsound are all from the various Microsoft SDKs
that don't have the restrictions that ASIO have, and Sven can produce
and release a PortAudio build with jOrgan that contains them.
Eventually we want native Jack support in Fluidsynth in Windows, which
can also then be built and distributed with jOrgan.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Hello Sven,
I think it is wise to point us to this wiki page.
Can the fluidsynth extension be distributed under another license (i.e.
not
Post by Graham Goode
Post by Erik De Schrijver
GPL but other type) so that it can be made available?
Does the restriction equally apply for the WDMKS version of the
fluidsynth
Post by Graham Goode
Post by Erik De Schrijver
extension?
Erik.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
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Post by Graham Goode
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Graham Goode
2011-04-18 09:05:16 UTC
Permalink
Hi Geert,

The architecture of WDMKS is such that only one 'connection' can be
made to an audio device. So if your WDM driver does not split your
channels into separate devices like Erik's does then multiple
instances will not be possible.

My biggest hope is Jack support for fluidsynth in windows, as this
will allow us multiple fluidsynth instances within the GPL license.

Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
For what I understand of this lawyer-language, and since WDM/KS already
gives no latency, the latter is the way to go, and to extend in such a way,
that it can be used multiple times and assigned to soundcard channels.
For me it seems, that ASIO is not needed, but it could also work out,
portaudio/ASIO is the only one that - when improved - couldbethe only one
that recognises all soundcard channels properly.
Thanks for the explanaitons Graham,
greetings,
Geert
orgel jeux
2011-04-18 09:36:51 UTC
Permalink
Ok

Thanks, indeed I did not yet test JackAudio. But if that is the solution,
ok.

It will be such a delight, to be able to play the CC with no latency.....

Greetings,

Geert
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Geert,
The architecture of WDMKS is such that only one 'connection' can be
made to an audio device. So if your WDM driver does not split your
channels into separate devices like Erik's does then multiple
instances will not be possible.
My biggest hope is Jack support for fluidsynth in windows, as this
will allow us multiple fluidsynth instances within the GPL license.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
For what I understand of this lawyer-language, and since WDM/KS already
gives no latency, the latter is the way to go, and to extend in such a
way,
Post by orgel jeux
that it can be used multiple times and assigned to soundcard channels.
For me it seems, that ASIO is not needed, but it could also work out,
portaudio/ASIO is the only one that - when improved - couldbethe only one
that recognises all soundcard channels properly.
Thanks for the explanaitons Graham,
greetings,
Geert
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
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Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-18 10:23:54 UTC
Permalink
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
Hello Geert,<br>
<br>
I fully <b>disagree</b> with you. <span class="moz-smiley-s5"><span>
:-D </span></span><br>
<br>
ASIO is needed for example by those that want to use software based
reverberation .<br>
The best ones available use impulse response reverberation.<br>
This requires to be able to use VST plugins, because this is frequently
the only way these convolvers are available.<br>
<br>
Maybe there is, but up till now i did not find an equivalent of VST's
when using a WDM/KS driver.<br>
Do you know of any?<br>
<br>
All the best.<br>
<br>
Erik.<br>
-------------------------<br>
orgel jeux wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:BANLkTim5+cG3qnXJ1b9U87C6mreN+***@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">For what I understand of this lawyer-language, and since
WDM/KS already gives no latency, the latter is the way to go, and to
extend in such a way, that it can be used multiple times and assigned
to soundcard channels.<br>
<br>
For me it seems, that ASIO is not needed, but it could also work out,
portaudio/ASIO is the only one that - when improved - couldbethe only
one that recognises all soundcard channels properly.<br>
<br>
Thanks for the explanaitons Graham,<br>
<br>
greetings,<br>
<br>
Geert<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/4/17 Erik De Schrijver <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:***@skynet.be">***@skynet.be</a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Thanks
Graham for this clarification.<br>
<br>
All the best.<br>
<br>
Erik.<br>
-------------------------------------<br>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
Graham Goode wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi Guys,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Sven is absolutely right about the current state of affairs with<br>
&gt; Stienberg ASIO vs GPL. There are three solutions that various
projects<br>
&gt; have used:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1) The first is the 'compile the support yourself' - which a lot of<br>
&gt; GPL projects use (Audacity being one).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 2) The second is as Erik suggests - use a different license. The<br>
&gt; problem with this is that Fluidsynth is distributed under the
GPL/LGPL<br>
&gt; license and so even if Sven were to change the license of the<br>
&gt; fluidsynth extension in jOrgan to a 'GPL with ASIO exclusion' it
would<br>
&gt; violate fluidsynth's license. If the fluidsynth developers would<br>
&gt; release fluidsynth under an 'GPL\LGPL with ASIO exclusion' license,<br>
&gt; and Sven were to release jOrgan with the fluidsynth extension
having a<br>
&gt; similar license, then it would be possible. I can say that some<br>
&gt; fluidsynth devs do not agree with the Stienberg license, so this is<br>
&gt; unlikely to happen.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 3) The third option is for a third-party (like me) to provide a<br>
&gt; separate download of the portaudio dll, with a disclaimer stating
that<br>
&gt; it contains the ASIO drivers built with the Stienberg ASIO SDK.<br>
&gt; PortAudio's license is not GPL (they use the plain MIT license), so<br>
&gt; that dll can be distributed without violating any license
restriction,<br>
&gt; until such time as Steinberg changes their license (I've been
waiting<br>
&gt; for them to change it for years... so please go the the Audacity
page,<br>
&gt; and read up on it, and then send Stienberg a message asking them to<br>
&gt; release an ASIO SDK under a GPL compatible license).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So, WDMKS\WaveRT\WASAPI\Dsound are all from the various Microsoft
SDKs<br>
&gt; that don't have the restrictions that ASIO have, and Sven can
produce<br>
&gt; and release a PortAudio build with jOrgan that contains them.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Eventually we want native Jack support in Fluidsynth in Windows,
which<br>
&gt; can also then be built and distributed with jOrgan.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Kind regards,<br>
&gt; GrahamG<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On 4/17/11, Erik De Schrijver&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:***@skynet.be">***@skynet.be</a>&gt; &nbsp;wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Hello Sven,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; I think it is wise to point us to this wiki page.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Can the fluidsynth extension be distributed under another
license (i.e. not<br>
&gt;&gt; GPL but other type) so that it can be made available?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Does the restriction equally apply for the WDMKS version of
the fluidsynth<br>
&gt;&gt; extension?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Erik.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload<br>
&gt; Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a
top<br>
&gt; priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
improve<br>
&gt; application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting<br>
&gt; the value of server virtualization. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev</a><br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; jOrgan-user mailing list<br>
&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net">jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user"
target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
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target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user</a><br>
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</blockquote>
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style="padding: 0px; overflow: hidden; visibility: hidden; left: -5000px; position: absolute; z-index: 9999; margin-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; color: black; font-size: 10px; text-align: left; line-height: 130%;"
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orgel jeux
2011-04-18 10:39:16 UTC
Permalink
OOOPSS....


Sorry Erik...I totally forgot the VSTi and other ASIO-related things.......

I was only thinking about the bare jOrgan program and the probability that
under WDM/KS perhaps playing the CC becomes possible......

But from several reactions of Graham, I see, that it is not that easy to
achieve too.

Well, anyhow, ASIO or WDM/KS, both are for jOrgan not of any interest on my
part, so long as I cannot play Bernd's CC - and not to forget the other
excellent multi-FS realisations.......

Perhaps I must quit speaking about this subject, as it does not bring us any
further. The CC is on my system playable as it is now.....

greetings,

Geert ( ps: - or did I ask that already?? - are you in Belgium??)
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Hello Geert,
I fully *disagree* with you. :-D
ASIO is needed for example by those that want to use software based
reverberation .
The best ones available use impulse response reverberation.
This requires to be able to use VST plugins, because this is frequently the
only way these convolvers are available.
Maybe there is, but up till now i did not find an equivalent of VST's when
using a WDM/KS driver.
Do you know of any?
All the best.
Erik.
-------------------------
For what I understand of this lawyer-language, and since WDM/KS already
gives no latency, the latter is the way to go, and to extend in such a way,
that it can be used multiple times and assigned to soundcard channels.
For me it seems, that ASIO is not needed, but it could also work out,
portaudio/ASIO is the only one that - when improved - couldbethe only one
that recognises all soundcard channels properly.
Thanks for the explanaitons Graham,
greetings,
Geert
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Thanks Graham for this clarification.
All the best.
Erik.
-------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Guys,
Sven is absolutely right about the current state of affairs with
Stienberg ASIO vs GPL. There are three solutions that various projects
1) The first is the 'compile the support yourself' - which a lot of
GPL projects use (Audacity being one).
2) The second is as Erik suggests - use a different license. The
problem with this is that Fluidsynth is distributed under the GPL/LGPL
license and so even if Sven were to change the license of the
fluidsynth extension in jOrgan to a 'GPL with ASIO exclusion' it would
violate fluidsynth's license. If the fluidsynth developers would
release fluidsynth under an 'GPL\LGPL with ASIO exclusion' license,
and Sven were to release jOrgan with the fluidsynth extension having a
similar license, then it would be possible. I can say that some
fluidsynth devs do not agree with the Stienberg license, so this is
unlikely to happen.
3) The third option is for a third-party (like me) to provide a
separate download of the portaudio dll, with a disclaimer stating that
it contains the ASIO drivers built with the Stienberg ASIO SDK.
PortAudio's license is not GPL (they use the plain MIT license), so
that dll can be distributed without violating any license restriction,
until such time as Steinberg changes their license (I've been waiting
for them to change it for years... so please go the the Audacity page,
and read up on it, and then send Stienberg a message asking them to
release an ASIO SDK under a GPL compatible license).
So, WDMKS\WaveRT\WASAPI\Dsound are all from the various Microsoft SDKs
that don't have the restrictions that ASIO have, and Sven can produce
and release a PortAudio build with jOrgan that contains them.
Eventually we want native Jack support in Fluidsynth in Windows, which
can also then be built and distributed with jOrgan.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Hello Sven,
I think it is wise to point us to this wiki page.
Can the fluidsynth extension be distributed under another license (i.e.
not
Post by Graham Goode
Post by Erik De Schrijver
GPL but other type) so that it can be made available?
Does the restriction equally apply for the WDMKS version of the
fluidsynth
Post by Graham Goode
Post by Erik De Schrijver
extension?
Erik.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
improve
Post by Graham Goode
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting
Post by Graham Goode
the value of server virtualization.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
Post by Graham Goode
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orgel jeux
2011-04-18 10:01:50 UTC
Permalink
Chester,

I am delighted with your extensive reply...!!

For me this is very valuable.

I think it is also for the real contributors to jOrgan development, which I
am surely not, despite of my frequent posting.

Wish you many happy hours playing the organ,

Geert ( Netherlands)
Post by Marco Francesco
------------------------------
*Sent:* Tue, April 12, 2011 3:42:53 AM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell
for 3.13beta6 with Asio
Roy,
It's all staying too much inner-workings, jOrgan, nowadays. I cannot cope
with it anymore it seems.
... ( I think there are only some 10 people nowadays that are intensively
communicating and attributing to jOrgan actually..) this is probably what
they like most, but I have this double feeling, that on one hand I like to
follow everything, and I also like some dispositions very much, and on the
other hand I am only a user.
How many quiet users of jOrgan are there?? I know a few that have VERY old
versions and dispositions.
May I pose, that I am certain there are not many quiet users out there, who
constantly upgrade, simply becasue we do not hear them, and they cannot ALL
be so much more clever that I ??? --::))
Well, back to business, I MUST get this ASIO thing working..!! ( have*you
*already????)
Have fun,
Geert
A "QUIET USER" RESPONDS
Since the topic came up...
I cannot speak for why others may have been silent on this list,
but only for myself.
It MOST CERTAINLY was NOT because of any dissatisfaction with what was on
the list or with those posting it.
My assessment of the situation from reading through the postings was that
enormous progress was being made towards even better sound from the
Alternatives to Fluidsynth were being explored.
Better reverberation was being developed, both in Fluidsynth and in other
programs.
Problems under Ubuntu 10.10, which appear to be connected with Jack and/or
with incompatibilities between Jack and other programs were being examined,
and there was hope that these issues would be resolved in the next major
release of Ubuntu.
The anticipated result is to be a new release of jOrgan offering greater
ease in selection which synthesizer would be used, and better control of the
features in it.
Relatively few of the current members appear to have the depth of
understanding of jOrgan and/or the other programs used with it (Jack,
synthesizers) to intelligently participate in the current testing. I
certainly suspect that I lack it. It seemed the wisest course was for me to
continue studying the current release of jOrgan, particularly the Lucid
Puppy Linux CD image released by Graham Goode three months ago. While I've
had some questions, examination of postings on the list have so far answered
all but one, and that one was most kindly and promptly answered by Graham
Goode.
I remain extremely supportive of the enormous effort being made by Sven and
the more prevalent posters on the list to provide an even better jOrgan in
the future. As this posting would suggest, I read through each post, though
I would admit that some of the postings dealing with more detailed technical
issues I do not fully understand. Any silence on my part is an attempt to
avoid distracting those making these efforts, and MOST CERTAINLY NOT any
unhappiness on my part. Indeed, I MOST HAPPILY look forward to an even
better jOrgan!
I hope this provides encouragement to all those making enormous efforts to
advance jOrgan.
Very best wishes to all!
/s/Chester H Berry
Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
(but currently in the Arizona mountains at a family event! Thus the delay
in this response)
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Chester Berry
2011-04-23 21:40:45 UTC
Permalink
From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>

To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 4:01:50 AM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for
3.13beta6 with Asio

Chester,

I am delighted with your extensive reply...!!

For me this is very valuable.

I think it is also for the real contributors to jOrgan development, which I am
surely not, despite of my frequent posting.

Wish you many happy hours playing the organ,

Geert ( Netherlands)


2011/4/17 Chester Berry <***@yahoo.com>


________________________________
Post by Graham Goode
Geert,
Thanks so much for your most generous reply.
I'm absolutely delighted if it provided encouragement to those who have worked
so hard to bring jOrgan to its current state.
And what a stunning rendition of Boellmann's Suite Gothique Chorale! Which
disposition was this done on?
Very best wishes to all!
/s/Chester H Berry
Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
(and now back home from a family event in Arizona! Thus the delay in this
response)
orgel jeux
2011-04-26 19:32:37 UTC
Permalink
Chester,

As in my opinion this piece needs a cathedral reverb, I had to use the only
disposition I have with such long reverb.
It is the Schyven/van Bever organ at the N D de Laeken in Brussels (
Belgium).
The sampleset was made a few years ago in the beginning of organ-sampling
techniques. But still rather impressive. I used a small subset of the
original sampleset.

But in the mean time I succeeded in adding impulse response reverb to this
same piece played on Bernd's CC.

But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb in
post-processing after having recorded it without reverb.

Although I have the Lexicon MX200, in my opinion this is not always the best
solution for long church-reverbs.

The impulse response used was from the St Etienne at Caen (Fr), at a
distance of 28 meters from the organ loft.

I put here the links for both examples to help in a direct comparison. I
did not listen to the Schyven when I recorded the CC, but I find their
fingerprints not too different....

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/Boelmannch_CC_Caen_28m.mp3 (Bernd's CC)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/SuiteGothiqueChoral.mp3 (Schyven)

Greetings,

Geert
*Sent:* Mon, April 18, 2011 4:01:50 AM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell
for 3.13beta6 with Asio
Chester,
I am delighted with your extensive reply...!!
For me this is very valuable.
I think it is also for the real contributors to jOrgan development, which I
am surely not, despite of my frequent posting.
Wish you many happy hours playing the organ,
Geert ( Netherlands)
Post by Marco Francesco
------------------------------
Geert,
Thanks so much for your most generous reply.
I'm absolutely delighted if it provided encouragement to those who have
worked so hard to bring jOrgan to its current state.
And what a stunning rendition of Boellmann's Suite Gothique Chorale!
Which disposition was this done on?
Very best wishes to all!
/s/Chester H Berry
Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
(and now back home from a family event in Arizona! Thus the delay in this
response)
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Chester Berry
2011-04-28 01:10:06 UTC
Permalink
From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>

To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 1:32:37 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for
3.13beta6 with Asio

Chester,

As in my opinion this piece needs a cathedral reverb, I had to use the only
disposition I have with such long reverb.

I absolutely agree! Most French churches have PLENTY of reverberation, and
Boellmann's church is no exception!

It is the Schyven/van Bever organ at the N D de Laeken in Brussels ( Belgium).

Thanks! I noted this in an earlier reply to another person.

The sampleset was made a few years ago in the beginning of organ-sampling
techniques. But still rather impressive. I used a small subset of the original
sampleset.

Indeed -- I suspect the vast majority of organists would find it highly
authentic and highly enjoyable!

But in the mean time I succeeded in adding impulse response reverb to this same
piece played on Bernd's CC.

But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb in post-processing
after having recorded it without reverb.

That is distressing! I have yet to experience any noticeable latency in my
jOrgan setup (nor any other problem, like cyphering, etc).

Although I have the Lexicon MX200, in my opinion this is not always the best
solution for long church-reverbs.

The impulse response used was from the St Etienne at Caen (Fr), at a distance of
28 meters from the organ loft.

Therefore, recording from the floor of the nave?

I put here the links for both examples to help in a direct comparison. I did
not listen to the Schyven when I recorded the CC, but I find their fingerprints
not too different....

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/Boelmannch_CC_Caen_28m.mp3 (Bernd's CC)

This done with jOrgan, I assume?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/SuiteGothiqueChoral.mp3 (Schyven)

There is a bit of a difference, but it certainly shows the incredible
accomplishments achieved already with jOrgan and the dispositions available
now. Imagine where we can hope to be in the future!

Thanks for all the information!
/s/Chester

Greetings,

Geert
orgel jeux
2011-04-28 08:29:03 UTC
Permalink
Chester,

Thanks for your reply!

*But in the mean time I succeeded in adding impulse response reverb to this
same piece played on Bernd's CC.

But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb in
post-processing after having recorded it without reverb.*

That is distressing! I have yet to experience any noticeable latency in my
jOrgan setup (nor any other problem, like cyphering, etc).

It's a major drawback, that with multiple FS instances ( like in the CC) we
still cannot have low latency; so I wonder how you have no noticeable
latency??

*Although I have the Lexicon MX200, in my opinion this is not always the
best solution for long church-reverbs.

The impulse response used was from the St Etienne at Caen (Fr), at a
distance of 28 meters from the organ loft.
*
Therefore, recording from the floor of the nave?

I used SONAR7 with its Perfect Space convolution reverb plug-in. The impulse
responses I use are from
http://www.hauptwerk.cz/irs/.( the free versions).
The Caen (CN55demo) has several listening distances you can select. I assume
the responses are recorded from normal listening height.

*I put here the links for both examples to help in a direct comparison. I
did not listen to the Schyven when I recorded the CC, but I find their
fingerprints not too different....*

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/Boelmannch_CC_Caen_28m.mp3 (Bernd's CC)

This done with jOrgan, I assume? YES.


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/SuiteGothiqueChoral.mp3 (Schyven)

There is a bit of a difference, but it certainly shows the incredible
accomplishments achieved already with jOrgan and the dispositions available
now. Imagine where we can hope to be in the future!

Chester, as I stated already, I am much delighted with this statement, as it
is NOT my intention to prove that HW is better or something like that, ONLY
to show my happiness with all the developments that take place in jOrgan!!

Greetings,

Geert
*Sent:* Tue, April 26, 2011 1:32:37 PM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell
for 3.13beta6 with Asio
Chester,
As in my opinion this piece needs a cathedral reverb, I had to use the only
disposition I have with such long reverb.
I absolutely agree! Most French churches have PLENTY of reverberation, and
Boellmann's church is no exception!
It is the Schyven/van Bever organ at the N D de Laeken in Brussels ( Belgium).
Thanks! I noted this in an earlier reply to another person.
The sampleset was made a few years ago in the beginning of organ-sampling
techniques. But still rather impressive. I used a small subset of the
original sampleset.
Indeed -- I suspect the vast majority of organists would find it highly
authentic and highly enjoyable!
But in the mean time I succeeded in adding impulse response reverb to this
same piece played on Bernd's CC.
But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb in
post-processing after having recorded it without reverb.
That is distressing! I have yet to experience any noticeable latency in my
jOrgan setup (nor any other problem, like cyphering, etc).
Although I have the Lexicon MX200, in my opinion this is not always the
best solution for long church-reverbs.
The impulse response used was from the St Etienne at Caen (Fr), at a
distance of 28 meters from the organ loft.
Therefore, recording from the floor of the nave?
I put here the links for both examples to help in a direct comparison. I
did not listen to the Schyven when I recorded the CC, but I find their
fingerprints not too different....
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/Boelmannch_CC_Caen_28m.mp3 (Bernd's CC)
This done with jOrgan, I assume?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/SuiteGothiqueChoral.mp3 (Schyven)
There is a bit of a difference, but it certainly shows the incredible
accomplishments achieved already with jOrgan and the dispositions available
now. Imagine where we can hope to be in the future!
Thanks for all the information!
/s/Chester
Greetings,
Geert
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Chester Berry
2011-04-28 13:29:18 UTC
Permalink
From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>

To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 2:29:03 AM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for
3.13beta6 with Asio

... But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb in
post-processing after having recorded it without reverb.

That is distressing! I have yet to experience any noticeable latency in my
jOrgan setup (nor any other problem, like cyphering, etc).

It's a major drawback, that with multiple FS instances ( like in the CC) we
still cannot have low latency; so I wonder how you have no noticeable latency??

That IS an interesting issue. My experience has been with Graham Goode's Lucid
Puppy distribution CD, running on an eMachine PC with an AMD Athlon II X2
dual-core 250u processor 1.6GHz, 2 x 512KB L2 Cache, and 4G main memory. This
particular model (et1331g07w) is built for and sold only by WalMart (the "w" at
the end of the model id); I got one for US$250. I was attracted by the NVIDIA
GeForce 6150SE chipset, which is primarily graphics control, but also provides
eight channels of audio through a set of four stereo jacks on the back of the
machine. The dispositions I've played with were the classical ones, which
commonly have only one or two instances of FluidSynth running (four instances
maximum). Maybe this machine simply has the power to run jOrgan and FluidSynth
fast enough that latency is not an issue. Plus, it has been stated that Linux
has less overhead than Windows, and Puppy Linux perhaps the least of any
distribution, since it is running in main memory.

Linux CAN be frustrating, but ask anyone who tried to load Windows Vista onto a
machine with an earlier version of Windows about frustrations! Like some other
posters to this list, I've used Unix in the past, and in general REALLY liked
it. So far, I like what Puppy offers as well.

Hope this helps other members of this list!
/s/Chester H Berry
Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
Graham Goode
2011-04-28 13:40:56 UTC
Permalink
Hi Guys,

Chester experiences no latency on Puppy Linux using Fluidsynth with
the Jack Audio Kit drivers. My hope is that somehow we can get the
Jack Audio Kit drivers working on a Windows build of Fluidsynth. The
Jack for Windows developer has spoken with the Fluidsynth developers
and given them something to work with, but it might be a while until
there is something concrete and test-able.... I'm hopeful :)

GrahamG
Post by Chester Berry
Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 2:29:03 AM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for
3.13beta6 with Asio
... But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb in
post-processing after having recorded it without reverb.
That is distressing! I have yet to experience any noticeable latency in my
jOrgan setup (nor any other problem, like cyphering, etc).
It's a major drawback, that with multiple FS instances ( like in the CC) we
still cannot have low latency; so I wonder how you have no noticeable latency??
That IS an interesting issue. My experience has been with Graham Goode's Lucid
Puppy distribution CD, running on an eMachine PC with an AMD Athlon II X2
dual-core 250u processor 1.6GHz, 2 x 512KB L2 Cache, and 4G main memory.
This
particular model (et1331g07w) is built for and sold only by WalMart (the "w" at
the end of the model id); I got one for US$250. I was attracted by the NVIDIA
GeForce 6150SE chipset, which is primarily graphics control, but also provides
eight channels of audio through a set of four stereo jacks on the back of the
machine. The dispositions I've played with were the classical ones, which
commonly have only one or two instances of FluidSynth running (four instances
maximum). Maybe this machine simply has the power to run jOrgan and FluidSynth
fast enough that latency is not an issue. Plus, it has been stated that Linux
has less overhead than Windows, and Puppy Linux perhaps the least of any
distribution, since it is running in main memory.
Linux CAN be frustrating, but ask anyone who tried to load Windows Vista onto a
machine with an earlier version of Windows about frustrations! Like some other
posters to this list, I've used Unix in the past, and in general REALLY liked
it. So far, I like what Puppy offers as well.
Hope this helps other members of this list!
/s/Chester H Berry
Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
Chester Berry
2011-04-28 14:25:30 UTC
Permalink
Graham,

Thanks for explaining this mystery.
and THANKS (again!) for all your hard work on this!

/s/Chester H Berry
Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA




________________________________
From: Graham Goode <***@gmail.com>
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 7:40:56 AM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for
3.13beta6 with Asio

Hi Guys,

Chester experiences no latency on Puppy Linux using Fluidsynth with
the Jack Audio Kit drivers. My hope is that somehow we can get the
Jack Audio Kit drivers working on a Windows build of Fluidsynth. The
Jack for Windows developer has spoken with the Fluidsynth developers
and given them something to work with, but it might be a while until
there is something concrete and test-able.... I'm hopeful :)

GrahamG
Post by Chester Berry
Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 2:29:03 AM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for
3.13beta6 with Asio
... But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb in
post-processing after having recorded it without reverb.
That is distressing! I have yet to experience any noticeable latency in my
jOrgan setup (nor any other problem, like cyphering, etc).
It's a major drawback, that with multiple FS instances ( like in the CC) we
still cannot have low latency; so I wonder how you have no noticeable latency??
That IS an interesting issue. My experience has been with Graham Goode's Lucid
Puppy distribution CD, running on an eMachine PC with an AMD Athlon II X2
dual-core 250u processor 1.6GHz, 2 x 512KB L2 Cache, and 4G main memory.
This
particular model (et1331g07w) is built for and sold only by WalMart (the "w" at
the end of the model id); I got one for US$250. I was attracted by the NVIDIA
GeForce 6150SE chipset, which is primarily graphics control, but also provides
eight channels of audio through a set of four stereo jacks on the back of the
machine. The dispositions I've played with were the classical ones, which
commonly have only one or two instances of FluidSynth running (four instances
maximum). Maybe this machine simply has the power to run jOrgan and FluidSynth
fast enough that latency is not an issue. Plus, it has been stated that Linux
has less overhead than Windows, and Puppy Linux perhaps the least of any
distribution, since it is running in main memory.
Linux CAN be frustrating, but ask anyone who tried to load Windows Vista onto a
machine with an earlier version of Windows about frustrations! Like some other
posters to this list, I've used Unix in the past, and in general REALLY liked
it. So far, I like what Puppy offers as well.
Hope this helps other members of this list!
/s/Chester H Berry
Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-28 14:50:56 UTC
Permalink
Hello Graham,

This is very promising news indeed.
As soon as there is something to test, just let me know and i shall
gladly participate.

All the best.

Erik.
---------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Guys,
Chester experiences no latency on Puppy Linux using Fluidsynth with
the Jack Audio Kit drivers. My hope is that somehow we can get the
Jack Audio Kit drivers working on a Windows build of Fluidsynth. The
Jack for Windows developer has spoken with the Fluidsynth developers
and given them something to work with, but it might be a while until
there is something concrete and test-able.... I'm hopeful :)
GrahamG
orgel jeux
2011-04-28 18:37:49 UTC
Permalink
*That is distressing! I have yet to experience any noticeable latency in my
jOrgan setup (nor any other problem, like cyphering, etc).*
*
It's a major drawback, that with multiple FS instances ( like in the CC) we
still cannot have low latency;* * so I wonder how you have no noticeable
latency??**

*
*That IS an interesting issue. My experience has been with Graham Goode's
Lucid Puppy distribution CD, running on an eMachine PC with an AMD Athlon II

*
Chester,(in my humble opinion), its the audio driver used, that is
primairily responsible for the audio latency.

The latest experiments with ASIO or WDM/KS drivers in FS confirm that, and
professional audio software, using ASIO, has latency timings of a few
milliseconds, even used in WIN7 or XP.

My ACER laptop with AMD Athlon64 x2 does not give me worse results than the
i7 with 12 gig RAM on my main PC.

The audio device used on the other hand, is responsible for differences in
latency ( under direct-sound driver). The more expensive external devices
most of the time have the better values.


Its not so, that the more FS instances a disposition uses, the higher the
latency. Only that for the moment we can only use one FS instance with the
newer
(faster) drivers.

As Bernd's CC uses 9 x FS, we still have to use the direct-sound driver
with its limited latency.

Now may I ask you, what buffervalues you use?? ( buffer size, amount of
buffers).

Could be you have the normal jOrgan FS latency, but you do not notice the
difference, simply becasue you did not use other software for realtime Midi
playing???

Since I do not have a timing device it is difficult to talk about latency;
its more of a feeling. The direct-sound driver has in my case an estimated
latency of between 75 and 100 milliseconds, so it is playable.
jOrgan dispositions that are able to run under ASIO or WDM/KS have no
noticeable latency ( estimated below 20 msec).

It is interesting to hear that you use the onboard audio. What audio out
connections do you use, and do you experience any spurious noises coming
form the PC's hardware??

Greetings,

Geert
*Sent:* Thu, April 28, 2011 2:29:03 AM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell
for 3.13beta6 with Asio
*... But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb in
post-processing after having recorded it without reverb.*
That is distressing! I have yet to experience any noticeable latency in my
jOrgan setup (nor any other problem, like cyphering, etc).
It's a major drawback, that with multiple FS instances ( like in the CC) we
still cannot have low latency; so I wonder how you have no noticeable
latency??*
*
That IS an interesting issue. My experience has been with Graham Goode's
Lucid Puppy distribution CD, running on an eMachine PC with an AMD Athlon II
X2 dual-core 250u processor 1.6GHz, 2 x 512KB L2 Cache, and 4G main memory.
This particular model (et1331g07w) is built for and sold only by WalMart
(the "w" at the end of the model id); I got one for US$250. I was attracted
by the NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE chipset, which is primarily graphics control,
but also provides eight channels of audio through a set of four stereo jacks
on the back of the machine. The dispositions I've played with were the
classical ones, which commonly have only one or two instances of FluidSynth
running (four instances maximum). Maybe this machine simply has the power
to run jOrgan and FluidSynth fast enough that latency is not an issue.
Plus, it has been stated that Linux has less overhead than Windows, and
Puppy Linux perhaps the least of any distribution, since it is running in
main memory.
Linux CAN be frustrating, but ask anyone who tried to load Windows Vista
onto a machine with an earlier version of Windows about frustrations! Like
some other posters to this list, I've used Unix in the past, and in general
REALLY liked it. So far, I like what Puppy offers as well.
Hope this helps other members of this list!
/s/Chester H Berry
Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
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management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial
acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
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Chester Berry
2011-04-29 01:00:13 UTC
Permalink
From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>

To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 12:37:49 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for
3.13beta6 with Asio

... Now may I ask you, what buffervalues you use?? ( buffer size, amount of
buffers).
In Jack, as Graham Goode indicated in the installation instructions, 256 x 4
In dispositions, nothing was changed.
I've principally been playing the Earlwood collection, Dan Dietzler's MacMurray
College, and Paul Stratmann's large ACO.

Could be you have the normal jOrgan FS latency, but you do not notice the
difference, simply becasue you did not use other software for realtime Midi
playing???

Quite possibly -- I'm using Graham's Puppy Linux distribution pretty much "as
distributed". This is the only sound software I've played with up 'til now.

Since I do not have a timing device it is difficult to talk about latency; its
more of a feeling. The direct-sound driver has in my case an estimated latency
of between 75 and 100 milliseconds, so it is playable.

I've been told that the experience of delay begins at around 1/15th second,
which is a bit over 66ms. This seems reasonable. I'm comparing my experience
with jOrgan to that with my Rodgers 960; in neither case is there noticeable
delay. When playing electric action pipe organs, I DO experience delay if the
pipes are more than about 60 feet from the console; such installations in the
United States are fairly rare.

jOrgan dispositions that are able to run under ASIO or WDM/KS have no noticeable
latency ( estimated below 20 msec).

In human perception terms, I'd consider 20ms "instantaneous".

It is interesting to hear that you use the onboard audio. What audio out
connections do you use, and do you experience any spurious noises coming form
the PC's hardware??

This was the primary reason I selected the et1331g07w from other
similarly-priced systems. There are four standard 1/8th inch RCA stereo OUT
sockets on the back of the computer (plus the microphone IN and stereo audio
IN). The output sockets are normally used for the eight channels of Home
Theatre 7.1 Surround Sound, but once ALSA is downloaded and configured, the
eight channels do whatever Linux software tells them to. If this is NOT done,
the channels appear to be mixed together, and the results do not do justice to
the fine dispositions Graham included on the CD. Once ALSA is configured, audio
test programs provided in ALSA show each of the eight channels working
independently. These sockets are connected by four stereo lines to the inputs
of a Russound R1250 amplifier driving eight speakers of various sorts, mostly
decades old. The Russound was recently acquired (for about 1/6th current full
retail) on eBay, and has worked flawlessly since arrival.

In this environment, I have never heard ANY spurious noises such as clicks,
Rick (greenfox)
2011-04-30 11:57:53 UTC
Permalink
I think it may have already been pointed out, but I will mention it for
the record.

jOrgan using Fluidsynth will perform very well on a Linux operating system.

On a Windows system some users using Windows XP will get quite
acceptable results. Most users using Windows Vista or Windows 7 will
have very poor results. Windows XP used DirectSound (or dsound) to
connect to the soundcard. Windows Vista and now Windows 7 use WASAPI
which uses an emulation of DirectSound causing added delay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectSound

Fluidsynth is not the problem, it is the path Fluidsynth is forced to
use to get to the soundcard that is the problem.

Graham Goode has created a patch to allow the use of ASIO or WDMKS as
outputs from Fluidsynth on the Windows operating system. The results
are astounding.

Regards
Rick
*Sent:* Thu, April 28, 2011 2:29:03 AM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new
Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio
/... But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb in
post-processing after having recorded it without reverb./
That is distressing! I have yet to experience any noticeable latency
in my jOrgan setup (nor any other problem, like cyphering, etc).
It's a major drawback, that with multiple FS instances ( like in the
CC) we still cannot have low latency; so I wonder how you have no
noticeable latency??/
/That IS an interesting issue. My experience has been with Graham
Goode's Lucid Puppy distribution CD, running on an eMachine PC with an
AMD Athlon II X2 dual-core 250u processor 1.6GHz, 2 x 512KB L2 Cache,
and 4G main memory. This particular model (et1331g07w) is built for
and sold only by WalMart (the "w" at the end of the model id); I got
one for US$250. I was attracted by the NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE chipset,
which is primarily graphics control, but also provides eight channels
of audio through a set of four stereo jacks on the back of the
machine. The dispositions I've played with were the classical ones,
which commonly have only one or two instances of FluidSynth running
(four instances maximum). Maybe this machine simply has the power to
run jOrgan and FluidSynth fast enough that latency is not an issue.
Plus, it has been stated that Linux has less overhead than Windows,
and Puppy Linux perhaps the least of any distribution, since it is
running in main memory.
Linux CAN be frustrating, but ask anyone who tried to load Windows
Vista onto a machine with an earlier version of Windows about
frustrations! Like some other posters to this list, I've used Unix in
the past, and in general REALLY liked it. So far, I like what Puppy
offers as well.
Hope this helps other members of this list!
/s/Chester H Berry
Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
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John Beach
2011-04-12 11:05:11 UTC
Permalink
The most logically-ordered way of packaging them is in their own individual folder. That way they are associated rather than placed in alphabetical order with the jOrgan dispositions folder to leave you wondering which soundfont goes with which disposition especially if you decide to transfer them to the dispositions folder of the latest release of jOrgan and have to reassemble the individuals parts from “memory” (at your age, no less), but a challenge for people years younger! So, as most of the disposition developers have been doing, we ought to continue the practice and encourage that they all be packaged in a named zip file which, upon unzipping, creates its own folder which then can be placed, with all its appertaining contents, in the jOrgan dispositions folder for future ready reference and use.

John Beach
Panos Ghekas
2011-04-12 10:35:39 UTC
Permalink
Hi Erik again,  and all,
Agreed 100%. The same locations and proceedure here.Also all jOrgan dispositions are in user\documents\jOrgan Dispositions\ folders of organ models. This is where jOrgan looks first... We talked a lot in the past about it.
Also, here (documents) the sf2 files remain unlocked by Viena.I found out that when I create an new sf2 and save it in C:program files ect and want to rework and save changes, this second save adds a locker icon on sf2 file.This is not happening is saved in user\documents. No matter how many times.
Yes leave unchecked "assosiate dispositions". Until x64 versions of jOrgan I was leaving unchecked the desktop icon too... as in x64 OS jOrgan(x86) versions open with the jar executable file, of which I had a shortcut icon on desktop.
He he , now I returned to this to be able to open jOrgan/Asio. Probably until Graham and Dan come up with a 64bit portaudio version for FS !!!!! (Amen !)
Good, instructional post of yours ErikBestPanos

--- Óôéò Ôñßô., 12/04/11, ï/ç Erik De Schrijver <***@skynet.be> Ýãñáøå:


I have mostly all jOrgan versions available on the PC here.

I put each jOrgan version in its own subdirectory named e.g.
jOrgan-3.13-beta-6-ASIO, under C:\Program Files (x86)\jOrgan

Under that subdir i have the subdir "dispositions" (and also the docs,
lib, skins ones)

Under dispositions i place in its own subdirectory each organ
disposition with all its files and subdirs e.g.
St.Clement_Russell_3.13b6FS&Asio



Probaby even better is to place this "dispositions" subdir not under
C:\Program Files (x86), but somewhere else.



I have for several jOrgan versions an icon on the desktop linked to the
jOrgan.exe file in the appropriate subdirectory for that particular
version of jOrgan.

When opening a jOrgan disposition i avoid using Files/Recent, but use
Files/Open and verify that i open a disposition that resides inside the
correct jOrgan-xxx subdir.



For all this to work without mixing things up, i think that when
installing a jOrgan version, it is very important not
to check the box "Associate .disposition files" in the last
window before you click install.



I hope this will help to avoid frustrations in the future.
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Permalink
--bcaec51f98c7b6b5ba04a0b65af1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Roy,

Its all staying too much inner-workings, jOrgan, nowadays. I cannot cope
with it anymore it seems.

I was the first to congratulate Graham with the ASIO extension, but at the
moment I am searching this still VERY chaotic forum for a small message from
Dan, in order to be able to download the release I need, and still have not
tested it.

Besides, in my exitement I overlooked some important details, that are not
in the instructions from Graham that I printed out.

Its such a relief when switching to the other organ software, and it plays
right away!! of course I realize this is a price for the continual changes
and upgrades there are in jOrgan.

For some people ( I think there are only some 10 people nowadays that are
intensively communicating and attributing to jOrgan actually..) this is
probably what they like most, but I have this double feeling, that on one
hand I like to follow everything, and I also like some dispositions very
much, and on the other hand I am only a user.

How many quiet users of jOrgan are there?? I know a few that have VERY old
versions and dispositions.

May I pose, that I am certain there are not many quiet users out there, who
constantly upgrade, simply becasue we do not hear them, and they cannot ALL
be so much more clever that I ??? --::))

Well, back to business, I MUST get this ASIO thing working..!! ( have* you
*already????)

Have fun,

Geert
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Geert,
I believe that depends whether the disposition is setup for
relative or absolute paths but I'm not sure how you do that.
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for
3.13beta6 with Asio
Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 11:12
Roy,
As you may have noticed, I oversaw some advices and am having some trouble
installing newer versions.
BUT: in all this trouble I find it very conveneint to have the soundbanks
and skins inside the specific disposition folder, as now I NEVER need to
point jOrgan to the specific skin and sounds after installation; something I
found very nasty in the past.
Happy playing,
Geert
Hi, Marco,
This raises a point which I can't seem to make up my mind
on. Way back in the past I and, I believe, most others used to organise the
jOrgan setup with a subfolder for dispositions and another for Soundfonts,
ditto for skins, i.e. it was RESOURCES rather than DISPOSITIONS which were
grouped together.
Lately the practice seems to be to include the relevant skins and
soundfonts in the particular disposition's folder. What do you think is
best? It seems to me that recently there have become far more skins and
soundfonts which are designed for a particular disposition, rather than
generic Theatre/Classic/etc.
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio
Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 9:05
Sorry Panos,
When I scrolled through the list, these 2 organs have 2 sf2 files in each
folder: a mono and another stereo... I mistook these as 2x sf2 to be used
together!
Thousand apologies.
Marco
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3443973.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
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Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
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Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
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not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
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Roy,<br><br>�Its all staying too much inner-workings, jOrgan,� nowadays. I cannot cope with it anymore it seems. <br>�<br>I was the first to congratulate Graham with the ASIO extension, but at the moment I am searching this still VERY chaotic forum for a small message from Dan, in order to be able to download the release I need, and still have not tested it.<br> <br>Besides, in my exitement I overlooked some important details, that are not in the instructions from Graham that I printed out.<br><br>Its such a relief when switching to the other organ software, and it plays right away!! of course I realize this is a price for the continual changes and upgrades there are in jOrgan.<br> <br>For some people ( I think there are only some 10 people nowadays that are intensively communicating and attributing to jOrgan actually..) this is probably what they like most, but I have this double feeling, that on one hand I like to follow everything, and I also like some dispositions very much, and on the other hand I am only a user.<br> <br>How many quiet users of jOrgan are there??� I know a few that have VERY old versions and dispositions.<br><br>May I pose, that I am certain there are not many quiet users out there, who constantly upgrade, simply becasue we do not hear them, and they cannot ALL be so much more clever that I� ???�� --::))<br> <br>Well, back to business, I MUST get this ASIO thing working..!!  ( have<b> you </b>already????)<br><br>Have fun,<br><br>Geert<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/4/12 Roy Radford <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:***@yahoo.co.uk">***@yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">
Hi, Geert,<br><br>�������������� I believe that depends whether the disposition is setup for relative or absolute paths but I&#39;m not sure how you do that.<br><br><br>���� Have fun,<br><br>�������� Roy.<br><br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 12/4/11, orgel jeux <i>&lt;<a href="mailto:***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: orgel jeux &lt;<a href="mailto:***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio<div class="im">
<br>To: <a href="mailto:jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net" target="_blank">jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br></div>Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 11:12<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br><div>Roy, <br><br>As you  may have noticed, I oversaw some advices and am having some
trouble installing newer versions.<br><br>BUT:� in all this trouble I find it very conveneint to have the soundbanks and skins inside the specific disposition folder, as now I NEVER need to point jOrgan to the specific skin and sounds after installation; something I found very nasty in the past.<br> <br>Happy playing,<br><br>Geert<br><br><div>2011/4/12 Roy Radford <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=***@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">***@yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">Hi, Marco,<br><br>               This raises a point which I can&#39;t seem to make up my mind on. Way back in the past I and, I believe, most others used to organise the jOrgan setup with a subfolder for dispositions and another for Soundfonts, ditto for skins, i.e. it was RESOURCES rather than DISPOSITIONS which were grouped together.<br>

<br>    Lately the practice seems to be to include the relevant skins and soundfonts in the particular disposition&#39;s folder. What do you think is best? It seems to me that recently there have become far more skins and soundfonts which are designed for a particular disposition, rather than generic Theatre/Classic/etc.<br>

<br>     Have fun,<br><br>        Roy.<br><br><br><br>--- On <b>Tue,
12/4/11, Marco Francesco <i>&lt;<a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <br>From: Marco Francesco &lt;<a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio<br>
To: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net" target="_blank">jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 9:05<br><br><div>Sorry Panos,<br><br>When I scrolled through the list, these 2 organs have 2 sf2 files in each<br>folder: a mono and another stereo... I mistook these as 2x sf2 to be used<br>

together!<br><br>Thousand apologies.<br><br>Marco<br><br>--<br>View this message in context: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3443973.html" target="_blank">http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3443973.html</a><br>

Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes<br>not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as<br>

part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.<br>Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.<br>Read this report now!  <a rel="nofollow" href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo</a><br>

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Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.<br>
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Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.<br>
Read this report now!  <a href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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--bcaec51f98c7b6b5ba04a0b65af1--
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Permalink
--bcaec51f98c7b3a11904a0b66ae9
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Forgot something:

Yesterday night I gave the two instructions form Graham about installing
PortAudio driver and Jack Audio Connection Kit, to my girlfriend as she
likes to read a bit when we are in bed.

She looked to me with SUCH compassion...............must repeat it !!!!

Geert
Post by
Roy,
Its all staying too much inner-workings, jOrgan, nowadays. I cannot cope
with it anymore it seems.
I was the first to congratulate Graham with the ASIO extension, but at the
moment I am searching this still VERY chaotic forum for a small message from
Dan, in order to be able to download the release I need, and still have not
tested it.
Besides, in my exitement I overlooked some important details, that are not
in the instructions from Graham that I printed out.
Its such a relief when switching to the other organ software, and it plays
right away!! of course I realize this is a price for the continual changes
and upgrades there are in jOrgan.
For some people ( I think there are only some 10 people nowadays that are
intensively communicating and attributing to jOrgan actually..) this is
probably what they like most, but I have this double feeling, that on one
hand I like to follow everything, and I also like some dispositions very
much, and on the other hand I am only a user.
How many quiet users of jOrgan are there?? I know a few that have VERY old
versions and dispositions.
May I pose, that I am certain there are not many quiet users out there, who
constantly upgrade, simply becasue we do not hear them, and they cannot ALL
be so much more clever that I ??? --::))
Well, back to business, I MUST get this ASIO thing working..!! ( have*you
*already????)
Have fun,
Geert
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Geert,
I believe that depends whether the disposition is setup for
relative or absolute paths but I'm not sure how you do that.
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for
3.13beta6 with Asio
Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 11:12
Roy,
As you may have noticed, I oversaw some advices and am having some
trouble installing newer versions.
BUT: in all this trouble I find it very conveneint to have the soundbanks
and skins inside the specific disposition folder, as now I NEVER need to
point jOrgan to the specific skin and sounds after installation; something I
found very nasty in the past.
Happy playing,
Geert
Hi, Marco,
This raises a point which I can't seem to make up my mind
on. Way back in the past I and, I believe, most others used to organise the
jOrgan setup with a subfolder for dispositions and another for Soundfonts,
ditto for skins, i.e. it was RESOURCES rather than DISPOSITIONS which were
grouped together.
Lately the practice seems to be to include the relevant skins and
soundfonts in the particular disposition's folder. What do you think is
best? It seems to me that recently there have become far more skins and
soundfonts which are designed for a particular disposition, rather than
generic Theatre/Classic/etc.
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio
Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 9:05
Sorry Panos,
When I scrolled through the list, these 2 organs have 2 sf2 files in each
folder: a mono and another stereo... I mistook these as 2x sf2 to be used
together!
Thousand apologies.
Marco
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3443973.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and
vision.
Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and
vision.
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and
vision.
Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
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_______________________________________________
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and
vision.
Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Forgot something:<br><br>Yesterday night I gave the two instructions form Graham about installing PortAudio driver and Jack Audio Connection Kit, to my girlfriend as she likes to read a bit when we are in bed.<br><br>She looked to me with SUCH� compassion...............must repeat it !!!!<br> <br>Geert<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/4/12 orgel jeux <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:***@gmail.com">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Roy,<br><br>�Its all staying too much inner-workings, jOrgan,� nowadays. I cannot cope with it anymore it seems. <br>�<br>I was the first to congratulate Graham with the ASIO extension, but at the moment I am searching this still VERY chaotic forum for a small message from Dan, in order to be able to download the release I need, and still have not tested it.<br> <br>Besides, in my exitement I overlooked some important details, that are not in the instructions from Graham that I printed out.<br><br>Its such a relief when switching to the other organ software, and it plays right away!! of course I realize this is a price for the continual changes and upgrades there are in jOrgan.<br> <br>For some people ( I think there are only some 10 people nowadays that are intensively communicating and attributing to jOrgan actually..) this is probably what they like most, but I have this double feeling, that on one hand I like to follow everything, and I also like some dispositions very much, and on the other hand I am only a user.<br> <br>How many quiet users of jOrgan are there??� I know a few that have VERY old versions and dispositions.<br><br>May I pose, that I am certain there are not many quiet users out there, who constantly upgrade, simply becasue we do not hear them, and they cannot ALL be so much more clever that I� ???�� --::))<br> <br>Well, back to business, I MUST get this ASIO thing working..!!  ( have<b> you </b>already????)<br><br>Have fun,<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br>Geert<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/4/12 Roy Radford <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:***@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">***@yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt;</span><br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">

Hi, Geert,<br><br>�������������� I believe that depends whether the disposition is setup for relative or absolute paths but I&#39;m not sure how you do that.<br><br><br>���� Have fun,<br><br>�������� Roy.<br><br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 12/4/11, orgel jeux <i>&lt;<a href="mailto:***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: orgel jeux &lt;<a href="mailto:***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio<div>

<br>To: <a href="mailto:jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net" target="_blank">jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br></div>Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 11:12<div><div></div><div><br><br><div>Roy, <br><br>As you  may have noticed, I oversaw some advices and am having some
trouble installing newer versions.<br><br>BUT:� in all this trouble I find it very conveneint to have the soundbanks and skins inside the specific disposition folder, as now I NEVER need to point jOrgan to the specific skin and sounds after installation; something I found very nasty in the past.<br> <br>Happy playing,<br><br>Geert<br><br><div>2011/4/12 Roy Radford <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=***@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">***@yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">


<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">Hi, Marco,<br><br>               This raises a point which I can&#39;t seem to make up my mind on. Way back in the past I and, I believe, most others used to organise the jOrgan setup with a subfolder for dispositions and another for Soundfonts, ditto for skins, i.e. it was RESOURCES rather than DISPOSITIONS which were grouped together.<br>


<br>    Lately the practice seems to be to include the relevant skins and soundfonts in the particular disposition&#39;s folder. What do you think is best? It seems to me that recently there have become far more skins and soundfonts which are designed for a particular disposition, rather than generic Theatre/Classic/etc.<br>


<br>     Have fun,<br><br>        Roy.<br><br><br><br>--- On <b>Tue,
12/4/11, Marco Francesco <i>&lt;<a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <br>From: Marco Francesco &lt;<a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio<br>

To: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net" target="_blank">jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 9:05<br><br><div>Sorry Panos,<br><br>When I scrolled through the list, these 2 organs have 2 sf2 files in each<br>folder: a mono and another stereo... I mistook these as 2x sf2 to be used<br>


together!<br><br>Thousand apologies.<br><br>Marco<br><br>--<br>View this message in context: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3443973.html" target="_blank">http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3443973.html</a><br>


Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes<br>not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as<br>


part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.<br>Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.<br>Read this report now!  <a rel="nofollow" href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo</a><br>


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</div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes<br>
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as<br>
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.<br>
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.<br>
Read this report now!  <a rel="nofollow" href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as<br>part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.<br>Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.<br>

Read this report now!  <a href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo</a></div><br></div>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<div><br><br><div>_______________________________________________<br>

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Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes<br>
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as<br>
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.<br>
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.<br>
Read this report now!  <a href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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--bcaec51f98c7b3a11904a0b66ae9--
Panos Ghekas
2011-04-12 11:06:52 UTC
Permalink
Geert !
I like your style, my friend. But here it doesn't work with my wife..... sorry, I must get my book too, to get somewhere........ :-) Lap on bed brings the oposite, even in excitement for something revolutionary new !
bestPanos

--- Óôéò Ôñßô., 12/04/11, ï/ç orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> Ýãñáøå:Forgot something:

Yesterday night I gave the two instructions form Graham about installing PortAudio driver and Jack Audio Connection Kit, to my girlfriend as she likes to read a bit when we are in bed.

She looked to me with SUCH  compassion...............must repeat it !!!!


Geert
Panos Ghekas
2011-04-12 11:17:21 UTC
Permalink
John has right,Hi John,
It's best to see any disposition as a separate instrument with all its dependencies around it, so all in the same folder, ie "OrganModelOne_3.12.2_FS (orLS, or sfz ect)"
So in a jOrgan Dispositions folder in user/documents we can select which instrument we like to play today. Like being in a hall where one have got a positiv pipe organ, a small Theater, a harpsichord, clavichord and so on, and we sit on one we like.
That's why I posted months ago about how I liked Bernd's windows installers....
regardspanos

--- Στις ΀ρίτ., 12/04/11, ο/η John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> έγραψε:
The most logically-ordered way of packaging them is in their own individual
folder.  That way they are associated rather than placed in alphabetical
order with the jOrgan dispositions folder to leave you wondering which soundfont
goes with which disposition especially if you decide to transfer them to the
dispositions folder of the latest release of jOrgan and have to reassemble the
individuals parts from “memory” (at your age, no less), but a challenge for
people years younger!  So, as most of the disposition developers have been
doing, we ought to continue the practice and encourage that they all be packaged
in a named zip file which, upon unzipping, creates its own folder which then can
be placed, with all its appertaining contents, in the jOrgan dispositions folder
for future ready reference and use.

 
John Beach
Roy Radford
2011-04-12 11:26:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Geert,

               Well, as one of the noisier members of the group, although I test some things on recent jOrgan issues, my "Real" organ is still on V3.7!

   No, I haven't actually done anything with Asio lately. I don't need it for my own stuff and there seem to be plenty of people here getting into murky depths with it in Windows! If I test a Fluidsynth dispo in Ubuntu I set the driver to jack for low latency. As to the rest, I've lost the rather complicated plot at present and am not quite sure what the benefits would be on a Ubuntu system.

    Judging by the overwhelming response (?) to my recent post about Virmidi not many people are collecting Ubuntu lore at the moment!  


     Have fun,

         Roy.


--- On Tue, 12/4/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 11:42

Roy,

 Its all staying too much inner-workings, jOrgan,  nowadays. I cannot cope with it anymore it seems.
 
I was the first to congratulate Graham with the ASIO extension, but at the moment I am searching this still VERY chaotic forum for a small message from Dan, in order to be able to download the release I need, and still have not tested it.


Besides, in my exitement I overlooked some important details, that are not in the instructions from Graham that I printed out.

Its such a relief when switching to the other organ software, and it plays right away!! of course I realize this is a price for the continual changes and upgrades there are in jOrgan.


For some people ( I think there are only some 10 people nowadays that are intensively communicating and attributing to jOrgan actually..) this is probably what they like most, but I have this double feeling, that on one hand I like to follow everything, and I also like some dispositions very much, and on the other hand I am only a user.


How many quiet users of jOrgan are there??  I know a few that have VERY old versions and dispositions.

May I pose, that I am certain there are not many quiet users out there, who constantly upgrade, simply becasue we do not hear them, and they cannot ALL be so much more clever that I  ???   --::))


Well, back to business, I MUST get this ASIO thing working..!!  ( have you already????)

Have fun,

Geert


2011/4/12 Roy Radford <***@yahoo.co.uk>


Hi, Geert,

               I believe that depends whether the disposition is setup for relative or absolute paths but I'm not sure how you do that.


     Have fun,

         Roy.


--- On Tue, 12/4/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:


From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio

To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 11:12

Roy,

As you  may have noticed, I oversaw some advices and am having some
trouble installing newer versions.

BUT:  in all this trouble I find it very conveneint to have the soundbanks and skins inside the specific disposition folder, as now I NEVER need to point jOrgan to the specific skin and sounds after installation; something I found very nasty in the past.



Happy playing,

Geert

2011/4/12 Roy Radford <***@yahoo.co.uk>


Hi, Marco,

               This raises a point which I can't seem to make up my mind on. Way back in the past I and, I believe, most others used to organise the jOrgan setup with a subfolder for dispositions and another for Soundfonts, ditto for skins, i.e. it was RESOURCES rather than DISPOSITIONS which were grouped together.



    Lately the practice seems to be to include the relevant skins and soundfonts in the particular disposition's folder. What do you think is best? It seems to me that recently there have become far more skins and soundfonts which are designed for a particular disposition, rather than generic Theatre/Classic/etc.



     Have fun,

        Roy.



--- On Tue,
12/4/11, Marco Francesco <***@gmail.com> wrote:



From: Marco Francesco <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio

To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 9:05

Sorry Panos,

When I scrolled through the list, these 2 organs have 2 sf2 files in each
folder: a mono and another stereo... I mistook these as 2x sf2 to be used


together!

Thousand apologies.

Marco

--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3443973.html


Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as


part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
Read this report now!  http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo


_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes

not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as

part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.

Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.

Read this report now!  http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes

not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.

Read this report now!  http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

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jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes

not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as

part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.

Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.

Read this report now!  http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
_______________________________________________

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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Roy Radford
2011-04-12 11:29:30 UTC
Permalink
  Hi, Geert,

                "to my girlfriend as she likes to read a bit when we are in bed."

  .... As Spike Milligan would have said,

   "There MUST be a better way!"   


        Have fun,

            Roy.


--- On Tue, 12/4/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 11:47

Forgot something:

Yesterday night I gave the two instructions form Graham about installing PortAudio driver and Jack Audio Connection Kit, to my girlfriend as she likes to read a bit when we are in bed.

She looked to me with SUCH  compassion...............must repeat it !!!!


Geert

2011/4/12 orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>

Roy,

 Its all staying too much inner-workings, jOrgan,  nowadays. I cannot cope with it anymore it seems.
 
I was the first to congratulate Graham with the ASIO extension, but at the moment I am searching this still VERY chaotic forum for a small message from Dan, in order to be able to download the release I need, and still have not tested it.



Besides, in my exitement I overlooked some important details, that are not in the instructions from Graham that I printed out.

Its such a relief when switching to the other organ software, and it plays right away!! of course I realize this is a price for the continual changes and upgrades there are in jOrgan.



For some people ( I think there are only some 10 people nowadays that are intensively communicating and attributing to jOrgan actually..) this is probably what they like most, but I have this double feeling, that on one hand I like to follow everything, and I also like some dispositions very much, and on the other hand I am only a user.



How many quiet users of jOrgan are there??  I know a few that have VERY old versions and dispositions.

May I pose, that I am certain there are not many quiet users out there, who constantly upgrade, simply becasue we do not hear them, and they cannot ALL be so much more clever that I  ???   --::))



Well, back to business, I MUST get this ASIO thing working..!!  ( have you already????)

Have fun,

Geert


2011/4/12 Roy Radford <***@yahoo.co.uk>




Hi, Geert,

               I believe that depends whether the disposition is setup for relative or absolute paths but I'm not sure how you do that.


     Have fun,

         Roy.


--- On Tue, 12/4/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:



From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio


To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 11:12

Roy,

As you  may have noticed, I oversaw some advices and am having some
trouble installing newer versions.

BUT:  in all this trouble I find it very conveneint to have the soundbanks and skins inside the specific disposition folder, as now I NEVER need to point jOrgan to the specific skin and sounds after installation; something I found very nasty in the past.




Happy playing,

Geert

2011/4/12 Roy Radford <***@yahoo.co.uk>



Hi, Marco,

               This raises a point which I can't seem to make up my mind on. Way back in the past I and, I believe, most others used to organise the jOrgan setup with a subfolder for dispositions and another for Soundfonts, ditto for skins, i.e. it was RESOURCES rather than DISPOSITIONS which were grouped together.




    Lately the practice seems to be to include the relevant skins and soundfonts in the particular disposition's folder. What do you think is best? It seems to me that recently there have become far more skins and soundfonts which are designed for a particular disposition, rather than generic Theatre/Classic/etc.




     Have fun,

        Roy.



--- On Tue,
12/4/11, Marco Francesco <***@gmail.com> wrote:




From: Marco Francesco <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio


To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 9:05

Sorry Panos,

When I scrolled through the list, these 2 organs have 2 sf2 files in each
folder: a mono and another stereo... I mistook these as 2x sf2 to be used



together!

Thousand apologies.

Marco

--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3443973.html



Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes
not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as



part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.
Read this report now!  http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo



_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user




------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes

not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as

part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.

Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.

Read this report now!  http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
_______________________________________________

jOrgan-user mailing list

jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user






-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes


not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as
part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.
Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.


Read this report now!  http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________


jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes

not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as

part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers.

Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision.

Read this report now!  http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo
_______________________________________________

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jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Marco Francesco
2011-04-12 15:58:30 UTC
Permalink
I don't believe you would be the better way!

Marco

--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3445022.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Roy Radford
2011-04-12 16:18:52 UTC
Permalink
    ...No... Well... I know I'm not EVERYONE'S favourite kinda guy!


          Have fun,

              Roy.


--- On Tue, 12/4/11, Marco Francesco <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Marco Francesco <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] WAY OT! jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011, 16:58

I don't believe you would be the better way!

Marco

--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-Russell-for-3-13beta6-with-Asio-tp3443346p3445022.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Roy Radford
2011-04-17 10:34:00 UTC
Permalink
   Hi, Graham,

                       Intriguing bit of legal wrangling but, maybe I'm being naiive, I'm not sure what is the point of bending over backwards to produce an open source program to run under the most tightly closed operating system in the business!  

 
      Have fun,

           Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, Graham Goode <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Graham Goode <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] ASIO licensing, was Asio or WDMKS
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 11:23

Hi Guys,

Sven is absolutely right about the current state of affairs with
Stienberg ASIO vs GPL. There are three solutions that various projects
have used:

1) The first is the 'compile the support yourself' - which a lot of
GPL projects use (Audacity being one).

2) The second is as Erik suggests - use a different license. The
problem with this is that Fluidsynth is distributed under the GPL/LGPL
license and so even if Sven were to change the license of the
fluidsynth extension in jOrgan to a 'GPL with ASIO exclusion' it would
violate fluidsynth's license. If the fluidsynth developers would
release fluidsynth under an 'GPL\LGPL with ASIO exclusion' license,
and Sven were to release jOrgan with the fluidsynth extension having a
similar license, then it would be possible. I can say that some
fluidsynth devs do not agree with the Stienberg license, so this is
unlikely to happen.

3) The third option is for a third-party (like me) to provide a
separate download of the portaudio dll, with a disclaimer stating that
it contains the ASIO drivers built with the Stienberg ASIO SDK.
PortAudio's license is not GPL (they use the plain MIT license), so
that dll can be distributed without violating any license restriction,
until such time as Steinberg changes their license (I've been waiting
for them to change it for years... so please go the the Audacity page,
and read up on it, and then send Stienberg a message asking them to
release an ASIO SDK under a GPL compatible license).

So, WDMKS\WaveRT\WASAPI\Dsound are all from the various Microsoft SDKs
that don't have the restrictions that ASIO have, and Sven can produce
and release a PortAudio build with jOrgan that contains them.

Eventually we want native Jack support in Fluidsynth in Windows, which
can also then be built and distributed with jOrgan.

Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Hello Sven,
I think it is wise to point us to this wiki page.
Can the fluidsynth extension be distributed under another license (i.e. not
GPL but other type) so that it can be made available?
Does the restriction equally apply for the WDMKS version of the fluidsynth
extension?
Erik.
Graham Goode
2011-04-17 10:40:34 UTC
Permalink
Hi Roy,

It's quite simple - more users in the world use that OS and are
comfortable using it. :)

GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
   Hi, Graham,
                       Intriguing bit of legal wrangling but, maybe I'm being naiive, I'm not sure what is the point of bending over backwards to produce an open source program to run under the most tightly closed operating system in the business!
      Have fun,
           Roy.
[jOrgan-user] ASIO licensing, was Asio or WDMKS
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 11:23
Hi Guys,
Sven is absolutely right about the current state of affairs with
Stienberg ASIO vs GPL. There are three solutions that various projects
1) The first is the 'compile the support yourself' - which a lot of
GPL projects use (Audacity being one).
2) The second is as Erik suggests - use a different license. The
problem with this is that Fluidsynth is distributed under the GPL/LGPL
license and so even if Sven were to change the license of the
fluidsynth extension in jOrgan to a 'GPL with ASIO exclusion' it would
violate fluidsynth's license. If the fluidsynth developers would
release fluidsynth under an 'GPL\LGPL with ASIO exclusion' license,
and Sven were to release jOrgan with the fluidsynth extension having a
similar license, then
it would be possible. I can say that some
fluidsynth devs do not agree with the Stienberg license, so this is
unlikely to happen.
3) The third option is for a third-party (like me) to provide a
separate download of the portaudio dll, with a disclaimer stating that
it contains the ASIO drivers built with the Stienberg ASIO SDK.
PortAudio's license is not GPL (they use the plain MIT license), so
that dll can be distributed without violating any license restriction,
until such time as Steinberg changes their license (I've been waiting
for them to change it for years... so please go the the Audacity page,
and read up on it, and then send Stienberg a message asking them to
release an ASIO SDK under a GPL compatible license).
So, WDMKS\WaveRT\WASAPI\Dsound are all from the various Microsoft SDKs
that don't have the restrictions that ASIO have, and Sven can produce
and release a PortAudio build with jOrgan that
contains them.
Eventually we want native Jack support in Fluidsynth in Windows, which
can also then be built and distributed with jOrgan.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Hello Sven,
I think it is wise to point us to this wiki page.
Can the fluidsynth extension be distributed under another license (i.e. not
GPL but other type) so that it can be made available?
Does the restriction equally apply for the WDMKS version of the fluidsynth
extension?
Erik.
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Roy Radford
2011-04-17 10:47:10 UTC
Permalink
Quite so, but if you are writing something for a closed O/S why quibble over whether some part of it is not quite squeaky-clean open-source?


     Have fun,

         Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, Graham Goode <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Graham Goode <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] ASIO licensing, was Asio or WDMKS
To: "jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net" <jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net>
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 11:40

Hi Roy,

It's quite simple - more users in the world use that OS and are
comfortable using it. :)

GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
   Hi, Graham,
                       Intriguing bit of legal wrangling but, maybe I'm being naiive, I'm not sure what is the point of bending over backwards to produce an open source program to run under the most tightly closed operating system in the business!
      Have fun,
           Roy.
  [jOrgan-user] ASIO licensing, was Asio or WDMKS
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 11:23
Hi Guys,
Sven is absolutely right about the current state of affairs with
Stienberg ASIO vs GPL. There are three solutions that various projects
1) The first is the 'compile the support yourself' - which a lot of
GPL projects use (Audacity being one).
2) The second is as Erik suggests - use a different license. The
problem with this is that Fluidsynth is distributed under the GPL/LGPL
license and so even if Sven were to change the license of the
fluidsynth extension in jOrgan to a 'GPL with ASIO exclusion' it would
violate fluidsynth's license. If the fluidsynth developers would
release fluidsynth under an 'GPL\LGPL with ASIO exclusion' license,
and Sven were to release jOrgan with the fluidsynth extension having a
similar license, then
  it would be possible. I can say that some
fluidsynth devs do not agree with the Stienberg license, so this is
unlikely to happen.
3) The third option is for a third-party (like me) to provide a
separate download of the portaudio dll, with a disclaimer stating that
it contains the ASIO drivers built with the Stienberg ASIO SDK.
PortAudio's license is not GPL (they use the plain MIT license), so
that dll can be distributed without violating any license restriction,
until such time as Steinberg changes their license (I've been waiting
for them to change it for years... so please go the the Audacity page,
and read up on it, and then send Stienberg a message asking them to
release an ASIO SDK under a GPL compatible license).
So, WDMKS\WaveRT\WASAPI\Dsound are all from the various Microsoft SDKs
that don't have the restrictions that ASIO have, and Sven can produce
and release a PortAudio build with jOrgan that
  contains them.
Eventually we want native Jack support in Fluidsynth in Windows, which
can also then be built and distributed with jOrgan.
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Hello Sven,
I think it is wise to point us to this wiki page.
Can the fluidsynth extension be distributed under another license (i.e. not
GPL but other type) so that it can be made available?
Does the restriction equally apply for the WDMKS version of the fluidsynth
extension?
Erik.
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce
  costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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Panos Ghekas
2011-04-18 14:55:07 UTC
Permalink
I agree with Erik here.

Gents, in 21st century music, there's one leading technology helping musicians composers and producers : VST (and AU, RTAS and DX of course, ah and Buzz. all similar).

Any new modern release is based on Host/VST(ect). Then it is a matter of taste on which to choose.
Windows systems have the benefit of thousants of applications for, though Mac has some very good AU (main commercial apps always released as VST & AU) and also RTAS and DX ect.

The main link to all these is ASIO. Period.
Some Hosts also support WASAPI but it's not the same. Latency detected.....

Asio also has a smooth quality in final sound, fact.

Consider that many soundtracks have being released exclusively with VST technology and ASIO output.
One perfect combination is Kontakt 4/Asio at 196.000Hz (with a powerfull computer of course. Multi outputs, surround 5.1, onboard convolution ect.

James Newton Howard uses EWQL orchestra with many computers, on each one engaging one section, ie 1st computer 1st violins section ect.
All these computers are linked to the central one controlled by the engineer at the studio console. Each one of these computers has Asio drivers.

I posted about Engine 2. This one has 5.1 support, or even the old 4ch Dolby surround.
But with Asio driver. (in my OS Jack is needed badly to work with Engine....)

So, you see....

Best
Panos

--- Óôéò Äåõô., 18/04/11, ï/ç Erik De Schrijver <***@skynet.be> Ýãñáøå:








Hello Geert,



I fully disagree with you.
:-D



ASIO is needed for example by those that want to use software based
reverberation .

The best ones available use impulse response reverberation.

This requires to be able to use VST plugins, because this is frequently
the only way these convolvers are available.



Maybe there is, but up till now i did not find an equivalent of VST's
when using a WDM/KS driver.

Do you know of any?



All the best.



Erik.

-------------------------

orgel jeux wrote:
For what I understand of this lawyer-language, and since
WDM/KS already gives no latency, the latter is the way to go, and to
extend in such a way, that it can be used multiple times and assigned
to soundcard channels.



For me it seems, that ASIO is not needed, but it could also work out,
portaudio/ASIO is the only one that - when improved - couldbethe only
one that recognises all soundcard channels properly.



Thanks for the explanaitons Graham,



greetings,



Geert
Roy Radford
2011-04-26 22:26:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Geert,
    
                I'm not into the subtleties of this sort of music but your words seem to add weight to my, possibly naiive, practice of keeping reverb on a separate machine, entirely independent of dispositions, jOrgan versions or the current direction of the Gulf Stream!

     Have fun,

        Roy.


--- On Tue, 26/4/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 26 April, 2011, 20:32

Chester,

As in my opinion this piece needs a cathedral reverb, I had to use the only disposition I have with such long reverb.
It is the Schyven/van Bever organ at the N D de Laeken in Brussels ( Belgium).
The sampleset was made a few years ago in the beginning of organ-sampling techniques. But still rather impressive. I used a small subset of the original sampleset.


But in the mean time I succeeded in adding impulse response reverb to this same piece played on Bernd's CC.

But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb  in post-processing after having recorded it without reverb.


Although I have the Lexicon MX200, in my opinion this is not always the best solution for long church-reverbs.

The impulse response used was from the St Etienne at Caen (Fr), at a distance of 28 meters from the organ loft.


I put here the links for both examples to help in a direct comparison.  I did not listen to the Schyven when I recorded the CC, but I find their fingerprints not too different....

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/Boelmannch_CC_Caen_28m.mp3  (Bernd's CC)


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/SuiteGothiqueChoral.mp3    (Schyven)

Greetings,

Geert


2011/4/23 Chester Berry <***@yahoo.com>


From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>

To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 4:01:50 AM

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio


Chester,

I am delighted with your extensive reply...!!

For me this is very valuable.

I think it is also for the real contributors to jOrgan development, which I am surely not, despite of my frequent posting.



Wish you many happy hours playing the organ,

Geert ( Netherlands)

2011/4/17 Chester Berry <***@yahoo.com>





Geert,


Thanks so much for your most generous reply.
I'm absolutely delighted if it provided encouragement to those who have worked so hard to bring jOrgan to its current state.


And what a stunning rendition of Boellmann's Suite Gothique Chorale!  Which
disposition was this done on?

Very best wishes to all!
/s/Chester H Berry


Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
(and now back home from a family event in Arizona!  Thus the delay in this response)



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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
orgel jeux
2011-04-27 07:34:26 UTC
Permalink
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Permalink
--bcaec5430a9666a87004a1e178f1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Ok Roy,

Even the most extended samplesets, like the Zwolle ( yes, Netherlands
again...), can be installed wet, surround ( where the surround part has
separate samples), and DRY.

In my opinion, the overall effect of the original acoustics belong to the
special flavour of the specific instrument, but sometimes placing an organ
in a different environment can greatly enhance its usefulness when playing
specific organ compositions.
Besides, for studying, it is not always helpful, that a long reverb hides
your faults a little.

Last year I was lucky to be able to have a converstaion with Olivier Latry,
the organist of the ND Paris.
He was giving a concert on the new CC-like organ of Orgelpark ( Amsterdam)
which is placed in a former protestant church in the form of a Greek cross
with a very short reverb and direct overall acoustics.
He told me, that it was no drawback at all when playing the Romantic organ
pieces. He liked the much more subtle tonal colouring that can be heard when
the acoustics are not so much dominating.

A say this also, because I remember a few weeks ago someone on this forum
said that an organ without a good reverb cannot be interesting to listen to.
In my opinion that is not right; it is different and has its own charm......
Like Handel organ concerto's; can be played in very small acoustics.

On the technical side: yes, I agree with you that it is quite convenient to
have the reverb processed elsewhere; besides, you can do with a lot less
powerful processor on the playing side, as, when you play many notes in
rapid succession, all those reverb tails still have to be handled.

Greetings,

Geert
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Geert,
I'm not into the subtleties of this sort of music but your
words seem to add weight to my, possibly naiive, practice of keeping reverb
on a separate machine, entirely independent of dispositions, jOrgan versions
or the current direction of the Gulf Stream!
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for
3.13beta6 with Asio
Date: Tuesday, 26 April, 2011, 20:32
Chester,
As in my opinion this piece needs a cathedral reverb, I had to use the only
disposition I have with such long reverb.
It is the Schyven/van Bever organ at the N D de Laeken in Brussels (
Belgium).
The sampleset was made a few years ago in the beginning of organ-sampling
techniques. But still rather impressive. I used a small subset of the
original sampleset.
But in the mean time I succeeded in adding impulse response reverb to this
same piece played on Bernd's CC.
But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb in
post-processing after having recorded it without reverb.
Although I have the Lexicon MX200, in my opinion this is not always the
best solution for long church-reverbs.
The impulse response used was from the St Etienne at Caen (Fr), at a
distance of 28 meters from the organ loft.
I put here the links for both examples to help in a direct comparison. I
did not listen to the Schyven when I recorded the CC, but I find their
fingerprints not too different....
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/Boelmannch_CC_Caen_28m.mp3 (Bernd's CC)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/SuiteGothiqueChoral.mp3 (Schyven)
Greetings,
Geert
*Sent:* Mon, April 18, 2011 4:01:50 AM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell
for 3.13beta6 with Asio
Chester,
I am delighted with your extensive reply...!!
For me this is very valuable.
I think it is also for the real contributors to jOrgan development, which I
am surely not, despite of my frequent posting.
Wish you many happy hours playing the organ,
Geert ( Netherlands)
------------------------------
Geert,
Thanks so much for your most generous reply.
I'm absolutely delighted if it provided encouragement to those who have
worked so hard to bring jOrgan to its current state.
And what a stunning rendition of Boellmann's Suite Gothique Chorale! Which
disposition was this done on?
Very best wishes to all!
/s/Chester H Berry
Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
(and now back home from a family event in Arizona! Thus the delay in this
response)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise
Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been
demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE
containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain
from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
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Ok Roy,<br><br>Even the most extended samplesets, like the Zwolle ( yes, Netherlands again...), can be installed wet, surround ( where the surround part has separate samples), and DRY.<br><br>In my opinion, the overall effect of the original acoustics belong to the special flavour of the specific instrument, but sometimes placing an organ in a different environment can greatly enhance its usefulness when playing specific organ compositions.<br>
Besides, for studying, it is not always helpful, that a long reverb hides your faults a little.<br><br>Last year I was lucky to be able to have a converstaion with Olivier Latry, the organist of the ND Paris.<br>He was giving a concert on the new CC-like organ of Orgelpark ( Amsterdam) which is placed in a former protestant church in the form of a Greek cross with a very short reverb and direct overall acoustics.<br>
He told me, that it was no drawback at all when playing the Romantic organ pieces. He liked the much more subtle tonal colouring that can be heard when the acoustics are not so much dominating.<br><br>A say this also, because I remember a few weeks ago someone on this forum said that an organ without a good reverb cannot be interesting to listen to. In my opinion that is not right; it is different and has its own charm......<br>
Like Handel organ concerto&#39;s; can be played in very small acoustics.<br><br>On the technical side: yes, I agree with you that it is quite convenient to have the reverb processed elsewhere; besides, you can do with a lot less powerful processor on the playing side, as, when you play many notes in rapid succession, all those reverb tails still have to be handled.<br> <br>Greetings,<br><br>Geert<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/4/27 Roy Radford <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:***@yahoo.co.uk">***@yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">Hi, Geert,<br>???? <br>??????????????? I&#39;m not into the subtleties of this sort of music but your words seem to add weight to my, possibly naiive, practice of keeping reverb on a separate machine, entirely independent of dispositions, jOrgan versions or the current direction of the Gulf Stream!<br> <br>���� Have fun,<br><br>������� Roy.<div class="im"><br><br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 26/4/11, orgel jeux <i>&lt;<a href="mailto:***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div class="im"><br>From: orgel jeux &lt;<a href="mailto:***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br></div><div class="im">Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio<br>
</div><div class="im">To:
<a href="mailto:jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net" target="_blank">jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br></div>Date: Tuesday, 26 April, 2011, 20:32<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br><div>Chester,<br><br>As in my opinion this piece needs a cathedral reverb, I had to use the only disposition I have with such long reverb.<br>
It is the Schyven/van Bever organ at the N D de Laeken in Brussels ( Belgium).<br>The sampleset was made a few years ago in the beginning of organ-sampling techniques. But still rather impressive. I used a small subset of the original sampleset.<br>

<br>But in the mean time I succeeded in adding impulse response reverb to this same piece played on Bernd&#39;s CC.<br><br>But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb  in post-processing after having recorded it without reverb.<br>

<br>Although I have the Lexicon MX200, in my opinion this is not always the best solution for long church-reverbs.<br><br>The impulse response used was from the St Etienne at Caen (Fr), at a distance of 28 meters from the organ loft.<br>

<br>I put here the links for both examples to help in a direct comparison.  I did not listen to the Schyven when I recorded the CC, but I find their fingerprints not too different....<br><br><a rel="nofollow" href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/Boelmannch_CC_Caen_28m.mp3" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/Boelmannch_CC_Caen_28m.mp3</a>  (Bernd&#39;s CC)<br>

<br><a rel="nofollow" href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/SuiteGothiqueChoral.mp3" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/SuiteGothiqueChoral.mp3</a>    (Schyven)<br><br>Greetings,<br><br>Geert<br><br><br><div>
2011/4/23 Chester Berry <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=***@yahoo.com" target="_blank">***@yahoo.com</a>&gt;</span><br> <blockquote style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> orgel jeux &lt;<a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">

<font face="Tahoma" size="2"><div><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net" target="_blank">jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
</div><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Mon, April 18, 2011 4:01:50 AM<div>
<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio<br></div></font><div><br>
Chester,<br><br>I am delighted with your extensive reply...!!<br><br>For me this is very valuable.<br><br>I think it is also for the real contributors to jOrgan development, which I am surely not, despite of my frequent posting.<br> <br>Wish you many happy hours playing the organ,<br><br>Geert ( Netherlands)<br><br></div><div><div>2011/4/17 Chester Berry <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=***@yahoo.com" target="_blank">***@yahoo.com</a>&gt;</span><br>


</div><blockquote style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><hr size="1"></font><br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);"></div></div><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">Geert,</span><br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">

<br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);"><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">Thanks so much for your most generous reply.</span><br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);"><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">I&#39;m absolutely delighted if it provided encouragement to those who have worked so hard to bring jOrgan to its current state.</span><br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">

<br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">And what a stunning rendition of Boellmann&#39;s Suite Gothique Chorale!  Which
disposition was this done on?<div><br><br>Very best wishes to all!</div></span><div><br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);"><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">/s/Chester H Berry</span><br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">


<span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA</span><br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);"></div><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">(and now back home from a family event in Arizona!  Thus the delay in this response)</span></div>

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--bcaec5430a9666a87004a1e178f1--
Roy Radford
2011-04-27 07:45:11 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Geert,

             Thanks for your reply, I think you presented both sides of the argument very well there. My own view is a bit one-sided because I'm using the Edirol units to build something vaguely similar to a Technics organ. Unlike most people here I'm not primarily interested in simulating a particular real pipe organ.


    I think I'll turn up the re-verb a bit more to hide the quality of my playing!  


        Have fun,

            Roy.


--- On Wed, 27/4/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Wednesday, 27 April, 2011, 8:34

Ok Roy,

Even the most extended samplesets, like the Zwolle ( yes, Netherlands again...), can be installed wet, surround ( where the surround part has separate samples), and DRY.

In my opinion, the overall effect of the original acoustics belong to the special flavour of the specific instrument, but sometimes placing an organ in a different environment can greatly enhance its usefulness when playing specific organ compositions.

Besides, for studying, it is not always helpful, that a long reverb hides your faults a little.

Last year I was lucky to be able to have a converstaion with Olivier Latry, the organist of the ND Paris.
He was giving a concert on the new CC-like organ of Orgelpark ( Amsterdam) which is placed in a former protestant church in the form of a Greek cross with a very short reverb and direct overall acoustics.

He told me, that it was no drawback at all when playing the Romantic organ pieces. He liked the much more subtle tonal colouring that can be heard when the acoustics are not so much dominating.

A say this also, because I remember a few weeks ago someone on this forum said that an organ without a good reverb cannot be interesting to listen to. In my opinion that is not right; it is different and has its own charm......

Like Handel organ concerto's; can be played in very small acoustics.

On the technical side: yes, I agree with you that it is quite convenient to have the reverb processed elsewhere; besides, you can do with a lot less powerful processor on the playing side, as, when you play many notes in rapid succession, all those reverb tails still have to be handled.


Greetings,

Geert

2011/4/27 Roy Radford <***@yahoo.co.uk>

Hi, Geert,
    
                I'm not into the subtleties of this sort of music but your words seem to add weight to my, possibly naiive, practice of keeping reverb on a separate machine, entirely independent of dispositions, jOrgan versions or the current direction of the Gulf Stream!


     Have fun,

        Roy.


--- On Tue, 26/4/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:


From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio

To:
jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 26 April, 2011, 20:32

Chester,

As in my opinion this piece needs a cathedral reverb, I had to use the only disposition I have with such long reverb.

It is the Schyven/van Bever organ at the N D de Laeken in Brussels ( Belgium).
The sampleset was made a few years ago in the beginning of organ-sampling techniques. But still rather impressive. I used a small subset of the original sampleset.



But in the mean time I succeeded in adding impulse response reverb to this same piece played on Bernd's CC.

But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb  in post-processing after having recorded it without reverb.



Although I have the Lexicon MX200, in my opinion this is not always the best solution for long church-reverbs.

The impulse response used was from the St Etienne at Caen (Fr), at a distance of 28 meters from the organ loft.



I put here the links for both examples to help in a direct comparison.  I did not listen to the Schyven when I recorded the CC, but I find their fingerprints not too different....

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/Boelmannch_CC_Caen_28m.mp3  (Bernd's CC)



http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/SuiteGothiqueChoral.mp3    (Schyven)

Greetings,

Geert



2011/4/23 Chester Berry <***@yahoo.com>



From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>


To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 4:01:50 AM

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio


Chester,

I am delighted with your extensive reply...!!

For me this is very valuable.

I think it is also for the real contributors to jOrgan development, which I am surely not, despite of my frequent posting.




Wish you many happy hours playing the organ,

Geert ( Netherlands)

2011/4/17 Chester Berry <***@yahoo.com>






Geert,



Thanks so much for your most generous reply.
I'm absolutely delighted if it provided encouragement to those who have worked so hard to bring jOrgan to its current state.



And what a stunning rendition of Boellmann's Suite Gothique Chorale!  Which
disposition was this done on?

Very best wishes to all!
/s/Chester H Berry



Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
(and now back home from a family event in Arizona!  Thus the delay in this response)




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d***@frontiernet.net
2011-04-30 16:47:57 UTC
Permalink
Hi Rick,

Sounds great, Where can I get a copy of the patch?

Regards,
Dennis
Post by Rick (greenfox)
I think it may have already been pointed out, but I will mention it for
the record.
jOrgan using Fluidsynth will perform very well on a Linux operating system.
On a Windows system some users using Windows XP will get quite
acceptable results. Most users using Windows Vista or Windows 7 will
have very poor results. Windows XP used DirectSound (or dsound) to
connect to the soundcard. Windows Vista and now Windows 7 use WASAPI
which uses an emulation of DirectSound causing added delay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectSound
Fluidsynth is not the problem, it is the path Fluidsynth is forced to
use to get to the soundcard that is the problem.
Graham Goode has created a patch to allow the use of ASIO or WDMKS as
outputs from Fluidsynth on the Windows operating system. The results
are astounding.
Regards
Rick
Rick (greenfox)
2011-05-03 06:51:07 UTC
Permalink
The new ZIP downloads of the portaudio builds have been uploaded to my
skydrive and the links in the WIKI Tutorial have been replaced.

WDMKS/WaveRT driver:
http://cid-c6dd879f60fadf98.office.live.com/self.aspx/jOrgan%20Fluidsynth/fluidsynth-x86-PA-wdmks.zip

ASIO driver:
http://cid-c6dd879f60fadf98.office.live.com/self.aspx/jOrgan%20Fluidsynth/fluidsynth-x86-PA-asio.zip

Please report any more issues. On with the testing:)

GrahamG
Post by d***@frontiernet.net
Hi Rick,
Sounds great, Where can I get a copy of the patch?
Regards,
Dennis
Post by Rick (greenfox)
I think it may have already been pointed out, but I will mention it for
the record.
jOrgan using Fluidsynth will perform very well on a Linux operating system.
On a Windows system some users using Windows XP will get quite
acceptable results. Most users using Windows Vista or Windows 7 will
have very poor results. Windows XP used DirectSound (or dsound) to
connect to the soundcard. Windows Vista and now Windows 7 use WASAPI
which uses an emulation of DirectSound causing added delay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectSound
Fluidsynth is not the problem, it is the path Fluidsynth is forced to
use to get to the soundcard that is the problem.
Graham Goode has created a patch to allow the use of ASIO or WDMKS as
outputs from Fluidsynth on the Windows operating system. The results
are astounding.
Regards
Rick
Panos Ghekas
2011-05-03 15:14:39 UTC
Permalink
Hallo Graham with Rick's Avatar !!!!!!

Thanks for the new patches !
Both work great !, Tested on my 32bit HP Athlon 2.3GHz dual core 2GB ram win7.
 I retained the Asio option, as you know I'm addicted to.... :-)

Any news for a 64bit version?

Best
Panos


--- Óôéò Ôñßô., 03/05/11, ï/ç Rick (greenfox) <***@gmail.com> Ýãñáøå:

Áðü: Rick (greenfox) <***@gmail.com>
ÈÝìá: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio
Ðñïò: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Çìåñïìçíßá: Ôñßôç, 3 ÌÜéïò 2011, 6:51

The new ZIP downloads of the portaudio builds have been uploaded to my
skydrive and the links in the WIKI Tutorial have been replaced.

WDMKS/WaveRT driver:
http://cid-c6dd879f60fadf98.office.live.com/self.aspx/jOrgan%20Fluidsynth/fluidsynth-x86-PA-wdmks.zip

ASIO driver:
http://cid-c6dd879f60fadf98.office.live.com/self.aspx/jOrgan%20Fluidsynth/fluidsynth-x86-PA-asio.zip

Please report any more issues.  On with the testing:)

GrahamG
Post by d***@frontiernet.net
Hi Rick,
Sounds great, Where can I get a copy of the patch?
Regards,
Dennis
Post by Rick (greenfox)
I think it may have already been pointed out, but I will mention it for
the record.
jOrgan using Fluidsynth will perform very well on a Linux operating system.
On a Windows system some users using Windows XP will get quite
acceptable results.  Most users using Windows Vista or Windows 7 will
have very poor results.  Windows XP used DirectSound (or dsound) to
connect to the soundcard.  Windows Vista and now Windows 7 use WASAPI
which uses an emulation of DirectSound causing added delay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectSound
Fluidsynth is not the problem, it is the path Fluidsynth is forced to
use to get to the soundcard that is the problem.
Graham Goode has created a patch to allow the use of ASIO or WDMKS as
outputs from Fluidsynth on the Windows operating system.  The results
are astounding.
Regards
Rick
Graham Goode
2011-05-03 16:01:00 UTC
Permalink
Hi Panos,

Update: My Visual Studio 2008 build of the 64-bit of the PortAudio
libraries does not work (yet)... Dan's build of the same using the GCC
compiler also does not (yet)...

I have not had much time to troubleshoot this, so once the 3.13
disposition updates are done I will get back in touch with Rob on the
PortAudio list and try to debug and get things working.

Kind regards
GrahamG
Post by Panos Ghekas
Hallo Graham with Rick's Avatar !!!!!!
Thanks for the new patches !
Both work great !, Tested on my 32bit HP Athlon 2.3GHz dual core 2GB ram win7.
I retained the Asio option, as you know I'm addicted to.... :-)
Any news for a 64bit version?
Best
Panos
Panos Ghekas
2011-05-03 21:27:07 UTC
Permalink
Hey, I can wait !
I waited for sooo long to see/hear FS through Asio....he he ;-)
Now I'm smelling in the air that the 64bit one's gonna be great !
As we say in Greece, "the good things come late" !

Fun, I have
Panos


________________________________
Áðï: Graham Goode <***@gmail.com>

Hi Panos,

Update: My Visual Studio 2008 build of the 64-bit of the PortAudio
libraries does not work (yet)... Dan's build of the same using the GCC
compiler also does not (yet)...

I have not had much time to troubleshoot this, so once the 3.13
disposition updates are done I will get back in touch with Rob on the
PortAudio list and try to debug and get things working.

Kind regards
GrahamG
Rick (greenfox)
2011-05-04 01:32:18 UTC
Permalink
Hello Panos

I have read that on Windows 7 64bit, the WDMKS patch should work with
multiple instances of Fluidsynth. Have you been able to confirm this?

I suspect your preference for the ASIO patch is to allow you to link to
other software reverb, am I right?

If you are able to have multiple instances of Fluidsynth running with no
delay and better clarity direct to your soundcard (using the WDMKS
patch) is there a chance the Fluidsynth reverb could provide a use-able
function better than we have had in the past.

I ask these questions because I don't have ready access to a Windows 7
64bit computer to do my own tests.

Thanks
Regards
Rick
Post by Panos Ghekas
Hey, I can wait !
I waited for sooo long to see/hear FS through Asio....he he ;-)
Now I'm smelling in the air that the 64bit one's gonna be great !
As we say in Greece, "the good things come late" !
Fun, I have
Panos
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