Discussion:
portaudio further testing
(too old to reply)
Sven Meier
2011-04-16 17:35:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi Graham,

starting with 3.13 beta7 the included Fluidsynth extension will happily
load any PortAudio library present in jOrgan's lib path.

Thus for further testing of PortAudio I'd like to propose the following
procedure:
Please take down your special versions of the Fluidsynth extension and
provide zip files containing the two dlls only instead (portaudio...dll
and fluidsynth.dll).
This way we won't interfere with further testing of jOrgan 3.13 and your
splendid work.

I think this was asked before but I don't remember seeing any answer yet:
Will it be possible to build a single fluidsynth version with both ASIO
and WDMK support?

Thank you very much for your efforts.

Sven
Graham Goode
2011-04-16 17:47:01 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sven,

I have just downloaded 3.13 beta 7 and am getting my dispositions
copied across for testing, so your email has arrived with good timing.

I will prepare new packages with just the dlls files in. I do have a
'combined build' (both WDMKS and ASIO in one dll), but I need to do a
few further tests myself before I am happy with releasing it. The one
issue that I am aware of (and have discussed with Rob), is that your
everyday user is simply presented with a list of devices and might not
know which is ASIO and which is WDMKS.

So, tonight I will upload new versions with just the dlls, slightly
change the instructions to match, and when my testing is done on the
combined version I will add that to the tutorial.

Will Dan's 64-bit also support the PortAudio library in the jOrgan lib path?

Kind regards,
GrahamG

ps. I have wanted to use fluidsynth with these drivers for years now,
so I am really happy that Rob managed to help me get a build compiled
and usable. The next step is to get native Jack for Windows support
into a fluidsynth build.... then multiple instances become possible
again!
Post by Sven Meier
Hi Graham,
starting with 3.13 beta7 the included Fluidsynth extension will happily
load any PortAudio library present in jOrgan's lib path.
Thus for further testing of PortAudio I'd like to propose the following
Please take down your special versions of the Fluidsynth extension and
provide zip files containing the two dlls only instead (portaudio...dll
and fluidsynth.dll).
This way we won't interfere with further testing of jOrgan 3.13 and your
splendid work.
Will it be possible to build a single fluidsynth version with both ASIO
and WDMK support?
Thank you very much for your efforts.
Sven
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Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-16 17:58:47 UTC
Permalink
Bravo!

Very promising times to look forward to.
Thanks in advance for your efforts.

All the best.

Erik.
-----------------------
Post by Graham Goode
The next step is to get native Jack for Windows support
into a fluidsynth build.... then multiple instances become possible
again!
Post by Sven Meier
Hi Graham,
starting with 3.13 beta7 the included Fluidsynth extension will happily
load any PortAudio library present in jOrgan's lib path.
Thus for further testing of PortAudio I'd like to propose the following
Please take down your special versions of the Fluidsynth extension and
provide zip files containing the two dlls only instead (portaudio...dll
and fluidsynth.dll).
This way we won't interfere with further testing of jOrgan 3.13 and your
splendid work.
Will it be possible to build a single fluidsynth version with both ASIO
and WDMK support?
Thank you very much for your efforts.
Sven
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Graham Goode
2011-04-16 18:16:01 UTC
Permalink
Hi Testers,

The new ZIP downloads of the portaudio builds have been uploaded to my
skydrive and the links in the WIKI Tutorial have been replaced.

WDMKS/WaveRT driver:
http://cid-c6dd879f60fadf98.office.live.com/self.aspx/jOrgan%20Fluidsynth/fluidsynth-x86-PA-wdmks.zip

ASIO driver:
http://cid-c6dd879f60fadf98.office.live.com/self.aspx/jOrgan%20Fluidsynth/fluidsynth-x86-PA-asio.zip

Please report any more issues. On with the testing :)

GrahamG
Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-17 01:04:58 UTC
Permalink
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
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<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
Hello Graham,<br>
Hello Sven,<br>
<br>
Thank Graham for releasing the .dll 's for both ASIO and WDMKS drivers.<br>
Thanks Sven for the adaptation to the FluidSynth extension inorder to
support PortAudio.<br>
Both versions work without any problem here.<br>
<br>
For those interested, this is my test setup:<br>
<br>
ASIO<br>
1) Make subdir jOrgan-3.13-beta-7-ASIO<br>
2) install jOrgan-3.13-beta-7 using <a
href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/jorgan-installer/3.13/jOrgan-3.13-beta7-installer-x86.exe/download">this
installer for 32 bits</a> or <a
href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/jorgan-installer/3.13/jOrgan-3.13-beta7-installer-amd64.exe/download">this
installer for 64 bit</a> in the above subdir.<br>
3) rename in the lib subdir the file libfluidsynth.dll to somthing else
(e.g. libfluidsynth-orig.dll)<br>
4) download the zip file for ASIO from Graham 's skydrive (see link
below)<br>
5) extract the 2 .dll files provided into the "lib" subdir<br>
6) copy subdirs containing (complete) dispositions needed into the
subdir "dispositions"<br>
7) configure (in construct mode) the fluidsynth instance using ASIO to
have Audio driver = portaudio, Audio device = ASIO driver of your sound
card<br>
8) make sure that the sample rate of your sound card and the value
written in the fluidsynth instance box, match<br>
remarks:<br>
-  only one fluidsynth instance can use ASIO; if there are more, they
have to use a different driver<br>
- if you use Jack, set Audio device = JackRouter<br>
<br>
WDMKS<br>
1) Make subdir jOrgan-3.13-beta-7-WDMKS<br>
2) install jOrgan-3.13-beta-7 using <a
href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/jorgan-installer/3.13/jOrgan-3.13-beta7-installer-x86.exe/download">this
installer for 32 bits</a> or <a
href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/jorgan-installer/3.13/jOrgan-3.13-beta7-installer-amd64.exe/download">this
installer for 64 bit</a> in the above subdir.<br>
3) rename in the lib subdir the file libfluidsynth.dll to somthing else
(e.g. libfluidsynth-orig.dll)<br>
4) download the zip file for WDMKS from Graham 's skydrive (see link
below)<br>
5) extract the 2 .dll files provided into the "lib" subdir<br>
6) copy subdirs containing (complete) dispositions needed into the
subdir "dispositions"<br>
7) configure (in construct mode) the fluidsynth instance(s) using WDMKS
to
have Audio driver = portaudio, Audio device = WDM driver of your sound
card<br>
8) make sure that the sample rate of your sound card and the value
written in the fluidsynth instance(s) box, match<br>
remark: <br>
- all fluidsynth instances can use WDMKS.<br>
<br>
That 's all there is to.<br>
<br>
Please share your findings; it is the best way to help eliminate
problems if there are any.<br>
<br>
Enjoy low latency.<br>
<br>
All the best.<br>
<br>
Erik.<br>
-----------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Graham Goode wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:BANLkTikW+***@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Testers,

The new ZIP downloads of the portaudio builds have been uploaded to my
skydrive and the links in the WIKI Tutorial have been replaced.

WDMKS/WaveRT driver:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://cid-c6dd879f60fadf98.office.live.com/self.aspx/jOrgan%20Fluidsynth/fluidsynth-x86-PA-wdmks.zip">http://cid-c6dd879f60fadf98.office.live.com/self.aspx/jOrgan%20Fluidsynth/fluidsynth-x86-PA-wdmks.zip</a>

ASIO driver:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://cid-c6dd879f60fadf98.office.live.com/self.aspx/jOrgan%20Fluidsynth/fluidsynth-x86-PA-asio.zip">http://cid-c6dd879f60fadf98.office.live.com/self.aspx/jOrgan%20Fluidsynth/fluidsynth-x86-PA-asio.zip</a>

Please report any more issues. On with the testing :)

GrahamG

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</body>
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Chris P
2011-04-19 10:20:05 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Sven & GrahamG
jOrgan v3.13.beta 7 with Grahams .dll's works OK for me too, using Windows
XP Pro Sp3 and PortAudio/Jack/Reveberate.
Regards
Chris P

P.S. Must get some time in playing now.

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Graham Goode
2011-04-19 10:39:26 UTC
Permalink
Hi Chris,

Thanks for the report :)

GrahamG
Post by Chris P
Thanks Sven & GrahamG
jOrgan v3.13.beta 7 with Grahams .dll's works OK for me too, using Windows
XP Pro Sp3 and PortAudio/Jack/Reveberate.
Regards
Chris P
P.S. Must get some time in playing now.
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John Reimer
2011-05-17 07:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Graham,

Having got the 3.13 release of the Earlwood organs off my hands, my next
move was to try to catch up with developments, so I made the download and
followed your instructions for the portaudio/ASIO4ALL with Fluidsynth, and
it worked straight away on my very basic laptop with its Realtek onboard
sound.

I was expecting the excellent latency, but what I was not ready for was the
new clarity of the sound. I know that Panos has been talking about this sort
of thing for some time, but for me (with my 72-year old hearing), I was not
all that dissatisfied with how the Realtek with its dsound was performing. I
actually wondered what Panos was on about (sorry, Pano, for doubting you).
;-(

Now I can hear it for myself. There is a real difference. I have become a
believer, and a delighted one!

I think there is at least one positive implication from this. On the
grounds of simplicity and economy, I have been hoping that the Realtek
onboard sound would prove to be up to the task, and produce a good quality
sound. The fact that I can HEAR the improvement over what for me seemed to
be satisfactory anyway, suggests that the Realtek itself is doing a pretty
good job.

Thank you for your work in making this further jOrgan enhancement available.

John Reimer
Post by Graham Goode
The new ZIP downloads of the portaudio builds have been uploaded to my
skydrive and the links in the WIKI Tutorial have been replaced.
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orgel jeux
2011-05-17 08:38:05 UTC
Permalink
John,

Very nice to hear about your experience!

Could you pls tell me, apart from installing the portaudio driver, did you
install the ASIO or the WDM/KS driver for jOrgan??

And concerning the Realtek onboard audio, is it still functioning with its
original driver, or did you also install a new driver for it?? Because I
also noticed you mentioned ASIO4ALL.

Apart from my outboard audio device, I also like to be able to use the
onboard audio in certain situations, so every positive experience is
welcome.

I never believed that only by using these new drivers inside jOrgan, and
still using the original Realtek audio driver, can give better latency and
sound quality; but I must admit that I did not test it.

Thanks for the report.

greetings,

Geert
Post by Sven Meier
Graham,
Having got the 3.13 release of the Earlwood organs off my hands, my next
move was to try to catch up with developments, so I made the download and
followed your instructions for the portaudio/ASIO4ALL with Fluidsynth, and
it worked straight away on my very basic laptop with its Realtek onboard
sound.
I was expecting the excellent latency, but what I was not ready for was the
new clarity of the sound. I know that Panos has been talking about this sort
of thing for some time, but for me (with my 72-year old hearing), I was not
all that dissatisfied with how the Realtek with its dsound was performing. I
actually wondered what Panos was on about (sorry, Pano, for doubting you).
;-(
Now I can hear it for myself. There is a real difference. I have become a
believer, and a delighted one!
I think there is at least one positive implication from this. On the
grounds of simplicity and economy, I have been hoping that the Realtek
onboard sound would prove to be up to the task, and produce a good quality
sound. The fact that I can HEAR the improvement over what for me seemed to
be satisfactory anyway, suggests that the Realtek itself is doing a pretty
good job.
Thank you for your work in making this further jOrgan enhancement available.
John Reimer
Post by Graham Goode
The new ZIP downloads of the portaudio builds have been uploaded to my
skydrive and the links in the WIKI Tutorial have been replaced.
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John Reimer
2011-05-17 12:01:25 UTC
Permalink
Geert,

I installed the ASIO version.
On the laptop (1.6 GHz CPU, single core, 1 GB RAM), I already had ASIO4ALL
installed, and that is what I am using.

But up till now, I have been using dsound, with Fluidsynth buffers at 8/128.
This gave acceptable latency (only slightly noticeable), and with what I
regarded as reasonable sound, although there were occasional quiet cracks
etc. Going from 8/128 to 8/512 got rid of them, but the latency wasn't as
good. BTW for some reason 8/256 was quite unusable - bad cracks.

Now with portaudio/ASIO4ALL, both latency and sound quality are marvellous.

John Reimer
Post by orgel jeux
Could you pls tell me, apart from installing the portaudio driver, did you
install the ASIO or the WDM/KS driver for jOrgan??
And concerning the Realtek onboard audio, is it still functioning with its
original driver, or did you also install a new driver for it?? Because I
also noticed you mentioned ASIO4ALL.
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Graham Goode
2011-05-18 05:38:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi John,

Part of the fun of VPOs and VTPOs is the satisfaction of sharing :)

Yes, the onboard realtek chip should be able to handle more with ASIO
than with dsound. I had one of those on a previous motherboard and it
had really good internal reverb controls too.

Thanks for all your work on the Earlwood organs, I'm hoping to play
them on jOrganPup 2011.5 today :)

All the best,
GrahamG
Post by Sven Meier
Graham,
Having got the 3.13 release of the Earlwood organs off my hands, my next
move was to try to catch up with developments, so I made the download and
followed your instructions for the portaudio/ASIO4ALL with Fluidsynth, and
it worked straight away on my very basic laptop with its Realtek onboard
sound.
I was expecting the excellent latency, but what I was not ready for was the
new clarity of the sound. I know that Panos has been talking about this sort
of thing for some time, but for me (with my 72-year old hearing), I was not
all that dissatisfied with how the Realtek with its dsound was performing. I
actually wondered what Panos was on about (sorry, Pano, for doubting you).
;-(
Now I can hear it for myself. There is a real difference. I have become a
believer, and a delighted one!
I think there is at least one positive implication from this. On the
grounds of simplicity and economy, I have been hoping that the Realtek
onboard sound would prove to be up to the task, and produce a good quality
sound. The fact that I can HEAR the improvement over what for me seemed to
be satisfactory anyway, suggests that the Realtek itself is doing a pretty
good job.
Thank you for your work in making this further jOrgan enhancement available.
John Reimer
Rick (greenfox)
2011-05-18 05:55:52 UTC
Permalink
Do you think there is a chance this "new clarity in sound" may actually
have gone too far?

I admit this only seems to be a problem at very high volume levels (with
optical SPDIF out, so no background noise) I seem to hear background
noises in the virtual ranks I didn't notice before. On large chords and
fast moving music the noises start to become overwhelming. The noises
seem to add together more than the actual notes do.

Do we need to rebuild SF2 files to suit the "new clarity"?
Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Regards
Rick
Post by Sven Meier
Graham,
Having got the 3.13 release of the Earlwood organs off my hands, my next
move was to try to catch up with developments, so I made the download and
followed your instructions for the portaudio/ASIO4ALL with Fluidsynth, and
it worked straight away on my very basic laptop with its Realtek onboard
sound.
I was expecting the excellent latency, but what I was not ready for was the
new clarity of the sound. I know that Panos has been talking about this sort
of thing for some time, but for me (with my 72-year old hearing), I was not
all that dissatisfied with how the Realtek with its dsound was performing. I
actually wondered what Panos was on about (sorry, Pano, for doubting you).
;-(
Now I can hear it for myself. There is a real difference. I have become a
believer, and a delighted one!
I think there is at least one positive implication from this. On the
grounds of simplicity and economy, I have been hoping that the Realtek
onboard sound would prove to be up to the task, and produce a good quality
sound. The fact that I can HEAR the improvement over what for me seemed to
be satisfactory anyway, suggests that the Realtek itself is doing a pretty
good job.
Thank you for your work in making this further jOrgan enhancement available.
John Reimer
Post by Graham Goode
The new ZIP downloads of the portaudio builds have been uploaded to my
skydrive and the links in the WIKI Tutorial have been replaced.
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Graham Goode
2011-05-18 06:04:28 UTC
Permalink
Hi Rick,

As I don't use the SPDIF route I can't comment on having no background
noise... what I have seen others do in a more 'pure' audio route
though is to add noise back in! There are quite a few sample sets that
come with blower noise and tremulant noises... and these may return
the 'pure' with noticeable artifacts into are more 'realistic' sound.
Just a thought :)

Are there specific ranks that you can point to that we can all play on
our systems with the ASIO or WDMKS PortAudio builds to see if we can
hear what you're hearing?

Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Rick (greenfox)
Do you think there is a chance this "new clarity in sound" may actually
have gone too far?
I admit this only seems to be a problem at very high volume levels (with
optical SPDIF out, so no background noise) I seem to hear background
noises in the virtual ranks I didn't notice before. On large chords and
fast moving music the noises start to become overwhelming. The noises
seem to add together more than the actual notes do.
Do we need to rebuild SF2 files to suit the "new clarity"?
Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Regards
Rick
Rick (greenfox)
2011-05-18 06:27:02 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Graham

I will do some more experimenting, make some notes and be more specific
in a few days.

I mainly use Bruce Miles - Compton soundfont and also last night
tinkered further with John Reimer's Earlwood soundfont.

There are noises I had never noticed before in both soundfonts on most
ranks. Things like hissing noticeably different on each split in the
font and "fft" sounds after about a second of holding a note. It is
sounding to me like you are in the pipe chamber. I would rather it
sound like I was in the middle of the auditorium.

As I say they just become pronounced at very high volume.

Regards
Rick
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Rick,
As I don't use the SPDIF route I can't comment on having no background
noise... what I have seen others do in a more 'pure' audio route
though is to add noise back in! There are quite a few sample sets that
come with blower noise and tremulant noises... and these may return
the 'pure' with noticeable artifacts into are more 'realistic' sound.
Just a thought :)
Are there specific ranks that you can point to that we can all play on
our systems with the ASIO or WDMKS PortAudio builds to see if we can
hear what you're hearing?
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Post by Rick (greenfox)
Do you think there is a chance this "new clarity in sound" may actually
have gone too far?
I admit this only seems to be a problem at very high volume levels (with
optical SPDIF out, so no background noise) I seem to hear background
noises in the virtual ranks I didn't notice before. On large chords and
fast moving music the noises start to become overwhelming. The noises
seem to add together more than the actual notes do.
Do we need to rebuild SF2 files to suit the "new clarity"?
Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Regards
Rick
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John Reimer
2011-05-18 06:49:14 UTC
Permalink
Rick,

I think I am hearing this also.

I have long been conscious of "noise" appearing to add together more than I
thought it should, and my practice has been to reduce the levels where I was
making adjustments rather than increasing them. If people find the air noise
too much, they may be able to open the soundfont in Viena and make a very
simple adjustment at the Preset level, at least in most of the Earlwood
Organ stops where noise has been added intentionally.

Mind you, it raises all sort of issues about authenticity and so on. For
example, the pipe organ I learned to play on was described by one minister
(himself a bit of an organist) as "an organ with asthma". My personal bias
is to produce the type of sound one hears "up close", and I can assure you
that I know some pipe organs where the air noise in the pipes is much louder
than what I have provided in these dispositions. In fact this is the case
with some of the samples I have used, and if I have added noise to the final
sound, it will have been considerably less than what I could hear in the
recordings from which the samples were produced. I have certainly had the
aim of avoiding "blandness", but with the new clarity which I have only been
hearing since yesterday, it could be that for some tastes it has been
overdone. One remedy may be to play them a bit more quietly, to reproduce a
listening situation which may in fact be closer to what happens in real
life. I think that in playing these things in domestic rooms we can easily
get the levels wrong.

However, for the moment at least, I am going to avoid the temptation to
meddle with the latest releases "yet again", and just spend more time
playing music on them, instead of listening to individual sounds. And I
shall be very interested to read the reactions of people, and will welcome
their comments.
Post by Rick (greenfox)
Do you think there is a chance this "new clarity in sound" may actually
have gone too far? .............
The noises
seem to add together more than the actual notes do.
Do we need to rebuild SF2 files to suit the "new clarity"?
Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Regards
Rick
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orgel jeux
2011-05-18 07:16:59 UTC
Permalink
Interesting....I will do a test on this later today. On the VTPO I use to
play big chord progressions with both hands, so I am curious how these
onboard devices cope with that.

One question still......when I want to try my onboard sound devices with
portaudio/ASIO should I - apart form installing these in jOrgan - need to
install new ASIO drivers for them, or is this already "hidden"in the
standard drivers?

So far I only tested portaudio with my external EMU, which of course has
ASIO drivers of its own, that's why I ask this.

Greetings,

Geert
Post by John Reimer
Rick,
I think I am hearing this also.
I have long been conscious of "noise" appearing to add together more than I
thought it should, and my practice has been to reduce the levels where I was
making adjustments rather than increasing them. If people find the air noise
too much, they may be able to open the soundfont in Viena and make a very
simple adjustment at the Preset level, at least in most of the Earlwood
Organ stops where noise has been added intentionally.
Mind you, it raises all sort of issues about authenticity and so on. For
example, the pipe organ I learned to play on was described by one minister
(himself a bit of an organist) as "an organ with asthma". My personal bias
is to produce the type of sound one hears "up close", and I can assure you
that I know some pipe organs where the air noise in the pipes is much louder
than what I have provided in these dispositions. In fact this is the case
with some of the samples I have used, and if I have added noise to the final
sound, it will have been considerably less than what I could hear in the
recordings from which the samples were produced. I have certainly had the
aim of avoiding "blandness", but with the new clarity which I have only been
hearing since yesterday, it could be that for some tastes it has been
overdone. One remedy may be to play them a bit more quietly, to reproduce a
listening situation which may in fact be closer to what happens in real
life. I think that in playing these things in domestic rooms we can easily
get the levels wrong.
However, for the moment at least, I am going to avoid the temptation to
meddle with the latest releases "yet again", and just spend more time
playing music on them, instead of listening to individual sounds. And I
shall be very interested to read the reactions of people, and will welcome
their comments.
Post by Rick (greenfox)
Do you think there is a chance this "new clarity in sound" may actually
have gone too far? .............
The noises
seem to add together more than the actual notes do.
Do we need to rebuild SF2 files to suit the "new clarity"?
Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Regards
Rick
--
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Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Graham Goode
2011-05-18 07:28:48 UTC
Permalink
Hi Geert,

If your soundcard driver installation included ASIO drivers, then
there is no need to install anything new.

If your soundcard does not come with an ASIO driver then the
recommended route is to install the ASIO4ALL generic driver (which
communicates with your soundcard via WDMKS) or to use the PortAudio
WDMKS driver.

Hope that helps,
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Interesting....I will do a test on this later today. On the VTPO I use to
play big chord progressions with both hands, so I am curious how these
onboard devices cope with that.
One question still......when I want to try my onboard sound devices with
portaudio/ASIO should I - apart form installing these in jOrgan - need to
install new ASIO drivers for them, or is this already "hidden"in the
standard drivers?
So far I only tested portaudio with my external EMU, which of course has
ASIO drivers of its own, that's why I ask this.
Greetings,
Geert
Post by John Reimer
Rick,
I think I am hearing this also.
I have long been conscious of "noise" appearing to add together more than I
thought it should, and my practice has been to reduce the levels where I was
making adjustments rather than increasing them. If people find the air noise
too much, they may be able to open the soundfont in Viena and make a very
simple adjustment at the Preset level, at least in most of the Earlwood
Organ stops where noise has been added intentionally.
Mind you, it raises all sort of issues about authenticity and so on. For
example, the pipe organ I learned to play on was described by one minister
(himself a bit of an organist) as "an organ with asthma". My personal bias
is to produce the type of sound one hears "up close", and I can assure you
that I know some pipe organs where the air noise in the pipes is much louder
than what I have provided in these dispositions. In fact this is the case
with some of the samples I have used, and if I have added noise to the final
sound, it will have been considerably less than what I could hear in the
recordings from which the samples were produced. I have certainly had the
aim of avoiding "blandness", but with the new clarity which I have only been
hearing since yesterday, it could be that for some tastes it has been
overdone. One remedy may be to play them a bit more quietly, to reproduce a
listening situation which may in fact be closer to what happens in real
life. I think that in playing these things in domestic rooms we can easily
get the levels wrong.
However, for the moment at least, I am going to avoid the temptation to
meddle with the latest releases "yet again", and just spend more time
playing music on them, instead of listening to individual sounds. And I
shall be very interested to read the reactions of people, and will welcome
their comments.
Post by Rick (greenfox)
Do you think there is a chance this "new clarity in sound" may actually
have gone too far? .............
The noises
seem to add together more than the actual notes do.
Do we need to rebuild SF2 files to suit the "new clarity"?
Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Regards
Rick
--
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Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its
next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran
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http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay
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orgel jeux
2011-05-18 09:09:57 UTC
Permalink
Ok Graham, thanks. In fact on my systems i did not explicitly install
drivers for the onboard audio; it was all recognised by windows during a
clean install. So I have no idea about their ASIO.

I will do some tests later,

Greetings,

Geert
Post by Panos Ghekas
Hi Geert,
If your soundcard driver installation included ASIO drivers, then
there is no need to install anything new.
If your soundcard does not come with an ASIO driver then the
recommended route is to install the ASIO4ALL generic driver (which
communicates with your soundcard via WDMKS) or to use the PortAudio
WDMKS driver.
Hope that helps,
GrahamG
Post by orgel jeux
Interesting....I will do a test on this later today. On the VTPO I use to
play big chord progressions with both hands, so I am curious how these
onboard devices cope with that.
One question still......when I want to try my onboard sound devices with
portaudio/ASIO should I - apart form installing these in jOrgan - need
to
Post by orgel jeux
install new ASIO drivers for them, or is this already "hidden"in the
standard drivers?
So far I only tested portaudio with my external EMU, which of course has
ASIO drivers of its own, that's why I ask this.
Greetings,
Geert
Post by John Reimer
Rick,
I think I am hearing this also.
I have long been conscious of "noise" appearing to add together more
than
Post by orgel jeux
Post by John Reimer
I
thought it should, and my practice has been to reduce the levels where I was
making adjustments rather than increasing them. If people find the air noise
too much, they may be able to open the soundfont in Viena and make a
very
Post by orgel jeux
Post by John Reimer
simple adjustment at the Preset level, at least in most of the Earlwood
Organ stops where noise has been added intentionally.
Mind you, it raises all sort of issues about authenticity and so on. For
example, the pipe organ I learned to play on was described by one
minister
Post by orgel jeux
Post by John Reimer
(himself a bit of an organist) as "an organ with asthma". My personal
bias
Post by orgel jeux
Post by John Reimer
is to produce the type of sound one hears "up close", and I can assure
you
Post by orgel jeux
Post by John Reimer
that I know some pipe organs where the air noise in the pipes is much louder
than what I have provided in these dispositions. In fact this is the
case
Post by orgel jeux
Post by John Reimer
with some of the samples I have used, and if I have added noise to the final
sound, it will have been considerably less than what I could hear in the
recordings from which the samples were produced. I have certainly had
the
Post by orgel jeux
Post by John Reimer
aim of avoiding "blandness", but with the new clarity which I have only been
hearing since yesterday, it could be that for some tastes it has been
overdone. One remedy may be to play them a bit more quietly, to
reproduce
Post by orgel jeux
Post by John Reimer
a
listening situation which may in fact be closer to what happens in real
life. I think that in playing these things in domestic rooms we can
easily
Post by orgel jeux
Post by John Reimer
get the levels wrong.
However, for the moment at least, I am going to avoid the temptation to
meddle with the latest releases "yet again", and just spend more time
playing music on them, instead of listening to individual sounds. And I
shall be very interested to read the reactions of people, and will
welcome
Post by orgel jeux
Post by John Reimer
their comments.
Post by Rick (greenfox)
Do you think there is a chance this "new clarity in sound" may
actually
Post by orgel jeux
Post by John Reimer
Post by Rick (greenfox)
have gone too far? .............
The noises
seem to add together more than the actual notes do.
Do we need to rebuild SF2 files to suit the "new clarity"?
Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Regards
Rick
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/portaudio-further-testing-tp3454305p3531751.html
Post by orgel jeux
Post by John Reimer
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by orgel jeux
Post by John Reimer
What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know!
Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its
next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran
developers boost performance applications - including clusters.
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Lynn Walls
2011-04-16 18:23:39 UTC
Permalink
For me, the second most important reason for having to define multiple fluidsynth Sound
elements in a single jOrgan disposition derives from the inability to load multiple
soundfont (.sf2) files into a single instance of fluidsynth.

With the Creative SoundBlaster HARDWARE Emu synth it was possible to use a soundfont
loader utility that could specify an initial BANK number for loading the soundfont file.
And then *additional* soundfont files could be loaded...starting at arbitrarily designated
bank numbers...until the specified memory limit was reached.

This very useful multiple soundfont file loading and bank designating capability seems not
to be available with fluidsynth...at least not as implemented in jOrgan, as there is only
one "Soundfont" property parameter in the Fluidsynth Sound element, and I do not see any
place to specify the beginning bank number.

If fluidsynth itself has the ability to handle a bank number specification and multiple
soundfont file loading, I would propose that this capability be extended to the jOrgan
interface.

CLW

P.S. The *first* most important reason for having multiple fluidsynth Sound element
instances in jOrgan is to be able to direct fluidsynth's single stereo audio output pair
to different stereo audio devices (when the hardware is available, as with the Delta
1010LT or the Saffire audio devices). If Fluidsynth in jOrgan was *also* able to support
more than one stereo Output pair with a single jOrgan Sound element instance, there might
be very little need for ever having to create more than one fluidsynth Sound element
instance in a single jOrgan disposition. This idea is probably not practical to
implement, even if fluidsynth could support more than one stereo output pair, because the
next issue to have to be addressed would be how to designate which audio streams (ranks,
sf presets) should go to which output pairs. This could get messy.

CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
.... then multiple instances become possible
again!
Graham Goode
2011-04-16 18:30:04 UTC
Permalink
Hi Lynn,
Post by Lynn Walls
If fluidsynth itself has the ability to handle a bank number specification and multiple
soundfont file loading, I would propose that this capability be extended to the jOrgan
interface.
One can load multiple sf2 files in single fluidsynth instance in
Qsynth.... so my guess is that the functionality is there. As you
rightly pointed out in your 'PS', a further issue is then multiple
audio outputs and how to designate what, where, and how..

GrahamG
orgel jeux
2011-04-16 18:35:38 UTC
Permalink
Lynn, "this could get messy", but it need not. It is standard practice,
although not ( yet) in jOrgan.

Yes, indeed, we had quite a number of sf files on different banks in the SB
cards....... i found it also quite convenient that you could combine
different parts, without the need to merge them into 1 sf2 file.

Well, I see it as a way around the difficulties of having multiple ASIO FS
streams. That is, for dispositions that at the moment cannot be constructed
all in one FS.

But as soon as you can have many FS's together, for me it is not necessary.
But perhaps I do not oversee the whole field...?

At the moment I am working at a disposition that has 11 instances of FS. But
I guess this is mostly a matter of me not being so clever that i can put
some extra ranks inside an existing SF. Well, that is to say, I could do
so, but ist costs me much effort, working in Viena ( or Vienna).

Greetings,

Geert
Post by Lynn Walls
For me, the second most important reason for having to define multiple fluidsynth Sound
elements in a single jOrgan disposition derives from the inability to load multiple
soundfont (.sf2) files into a single instance of fluidsynth.
With the Creative SoundBlaster HARDWARE Emu synth it was possible to use a soundfont
loader utility that could specify an initial BANK number for loading the soundfont file.
And then *additional* soundfont files could be loaded...starting at arbitrarily designated
bank numbers...until the specified memory limit was reached.
This very useful multiple soundfont file loading and bank designating capability seems not
to be available with fluidsynth...at least not as implemented in jOrgan, as there is only
one "Soundfont" property parameter in the Fluidsynth Sound element, and I do not see any
place to specify the beginning bank number.
If fluidsynth itself has the ability to handle a bank number specification and multiple
soundfont file loading, I would propose that this capability be extended to the jOrgan
interface.
CLW
P.S. The *first* most important reason for having multiple fluidsynth Sound element
instances in jOrgan is to be able to direct fluidsynth's single stereo audio output pair
to different stereo audio devices (when the hardware is available, as with the Delta
1010LT or the Saffire audio devices). If Fluidsynth in jOrgan was *also* able to support
more than one stereo Output pair with a single jOrgan Sound element instance, there might
be very little need for ever having to create more than one fluidsynth Sound element
instance in a single jOrgan disposition. This idea is probably not practical to
implement, even if fluidsynth could support more than one stereo output pair, because the
next issue to have to be addressed would be how to designate which audio streams (ranks,
sf presets) should go to which output pairs. This could get messy.
CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
.... then multiple instances become possible
again!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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Sven Meier
2011-04-16 19:17:19 UTC
Permalink
Hi Lynn,

yes, Fluidsynth supports multiple Soundfonts per instance.

We'll have to wait how multiple Fluidsynth sound elements work out with
PortAudio. If we're still able to use multiple elements, I don't see the
need to implement multiple Soundfonts in jOrgan.

Best regards

Sven
Post by Lynn Walls
For me, the second most important reason for having to define multiple fluidsynth Sound
elements in a single jOrgan disposition derives from the inability to load multiple
soundfont (.sf2) files into a single instance of fluidsynth.
With the Creative SoundBlaster HARDWARE Emu synth it was possible to use a soundfont
loader utility that could specify an initial BANK number for loading the soundfont file.
And then *additional* soundfont files could be loaded...starting at arbitrarily designated
bank numbers...until the specified memory limit was reached.
This very useful multiple soundfont file loading and bank designating capability seems not
to be available with fluidsynth...at least not as implemented in jOrgan, as there is only
one "Soundfont" property parameter in the Fluidsynth Sound element, and I do not see any
place to specify the beginning bank number.
If fluidsynth itself has the ability to handle a bank number specification and multiple
soundfont file loading, I would propose that this capability be extended to the jOrgan
interface.
CLW
P.S. The *first* most important reason for having multiple fluidsynth Sound element
instances in jOrgan is to be able to direct fluidsynth's single stereo audio output pair
to different stereo audio devices (when the hardware is available, as with the Delta
1010LT or the Saffire audio devices). If Fluidsynth in jOrgan was *also* able to support
more than one stereo Output pair with a single jOrgan Sound element instance, there might
be very little need for ever having to create more than one fluidsynth Sound element
instance in a single jOrgan disposition. This idea is probably not practical to
implement, even if fluidsynth could support more than one stereo output pair, because the
next issue to have to be addressed would be how to designate which audio streams (ranks,
sf presets) should go to which output pairs. This could get messy.
CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
.... then multiple instances become possible
again!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-16 20:23:23 UTC
Permalink
Hello Lynn,

Concerning your *first* reason for multiple fluidsynth element, i quote
below from 2 messages from David Henningsson, one from 10/11/2010, the
other one in reply to my questions also on 10/11/2010.

If i understand what David says correctly, fluidsynth is able to do "a
kind of" multi-channel output, maybe not with the flexibility of
assigning them to audio devices we would like to have.

Unfortunately, his reply to my questions does not tell if this is
possible with the jOrgan Fluidsynth extension.

And if yes, how we can specify how many audio channels there should be
and to which audio devices each should be connected.

If my understanding is correct, the question then is how to exploit it
in jOrgan. Because if that can be obtained, we can have multi-channel
with a single fluidsynth instance, a real plus.


He also stated that fluidsynth is capable of loading more that one
soundfont, each in his bank. ((Cannot immediately trace his message.)

But here also i know of no method to do that with the fluidsynth
extension as we have now. Having this again in jOrgan, as you stated
(*second reason*), would seriously simplify the setup of an jOrgan
disposition.

So, maybe remaking contact with David could be useful.

All the best.

Erik.
----------------------------------------------

from 10/11/2010

If you just need multi-channel output, FS has support for that, and
automatically splits the MIDI channels over the different speakers. It
also has support for loading more than one soundfont into the same
instance so that shouldn't be a problem either.


from
Hello David,
Interesting.
That Fluidsynth "sees" the different audio channels of the soundcard
used, is clear.
Could you please expand on
and automatically splits the MIDI channels over the different speakers
- is it possible to tell fluidsynth, as used in the jOrgan fluidsynth
extension, which ranks should go to which audio channels?
- does the automatic split works using the MIDI channel number
(frequently associated with organ manuals and pedal) as it comes out of
the keyboards?
- if so, is there a way to specify which MIDI channel info should be
used to send audio to which set of speakers?
- if not, based on which rules is the split done?
Thanks in advance for any clarification.
It's a simple modulo: if you have two stereo pairs, MIDI channels
1,3,5,7 goes to one stereo pair and MIDI channels 2,4,6,8 goes to the
other.
If you have three stereo pairs, MIDI channels 1,4,7,10,etc goes to the
first, 2,5,8,11,etc goes to the second, 3,6,9,12,etc goes to the third.
And so on.

FS has been able to do this a long time, but pay attention to that a bug
related to this was fixed in FS 1.1.3.

// David
For me, the second most important reason for having to define multiple fluidsynth Sound
elements in a single jOrgan disposition derives from the inability to load multiple
soundfont (.sf2) files into a single instance of fluidsynth.
With the Creative SoundBlaster HARDWARE Emu synth it was possible to use a soundfont
loader utility that could specify an initial BANK number for loading the soundfont file.
And then *additional* soundfont files could be loaded...starting at arbitrarily designated
bank numbers...until the specified memory limit was reached.
This very useful multiple soundfont file loading and bank designating capability seems not
to be available with fluidsynth...at least not as implemented in jOrgan, as there is only
one "Soundfont" property parameter in the Fluidsynth Sound element, and I do not see any
place to specify the beginning bank number.
If fluidsynth itself has the ability to handle a bank number specification and multiple
soundfont file loading, I would propose that this capability be extended to the jOrgan
interface.
CLW
P.S. The *first* most important reason for having multiple fluidsynth Sound element
instances in jOrgan is to be able to direct fluidsynth's single stereo audio output pair
to different stereo audio devices (when the hardware is available, as with the Delta
1010LT or the Saffire audio devices). If Fluidsynth in jOrgan was *also* able to support
more than one stereo Output pair with a single jOrgan Sound element instance, there might
be very little need for ever having to create more than one fluidsynth Sound element
instance in a single jOrgan disposition. This idea is probably not practical to
implement, even if fluidsynth could support more than one stereo output pair, because the
next issue to have to be addressed would be how to designate which audio streams (ranks,
sf presets) should go to which output pairs. This could get messy.
CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------
.... then multiple instances become possible
again!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
John Beach
2011-04-16 20:37:55 UTC
Permalink
In Fluidsynth dispositions in jOrgan, the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager
list never shows a soundfont bank loaded. Even if, when Importing a
soundfont and specifying the
bank (which is the only occasion in Fluidsynth that a bank number option is
shown) there is no indication in the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager that
Fluidsynth uses anything other than its own proprietary system for dealing
with the soundfont. There is no indication that RAM is allocated for that
purpose. Are the greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth as compared
with Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the soundfont? And,
would the polyphony limitations be imposed on Fluidsynth if the Soundfont
Bank Manager and its allocation of RAM memory cache is addressed using
Fluidsynth?

John Beach





-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Walls
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 2:23 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
(was: portaudio further testing)

For me, the second most important reason for having to define multiple
fluidsynth Sound
elements in a single jOrgan disposition derives from the inability to load
multiple
soundfont (.sf2) files into a single instance of fluidsynth.

With the Creative SoundBlaster HARDWARE Emu synth it was possible to use a
soundfont
loader utility that could specify an initial BANK number for loading the
soundfont file.
And then *additional* soundfont files could be loaded...starting at
arbitrarily designated
bank numbers...until the specified memory limit was reached.

This very useful multiple soundfont file loading and bank designating
capability seems not
to be available with fluidsynth...at least not as implemented in jOrgan, as
there is only
one "Soundfont" property parameter in the Fluidsynth Sound element, and I do
not see any
place to specify the beginning bank number.

If fluidsynth itself has the ability to handle a bank number specification
and multiple
soundfont file loading, I would propose that this capability be extended to
the jOrgan
interface.

CLW

P.S. The *first* most important reason for having multiple fluidsynth Sound
element
instances in jOrgan is to be able to direct fluidsynth's single stereo audio
output pair
to different stereo audio devices (when the hardware is available, as with
the Delta
1010LT or the Saffire audio devices). If Fluidsynth in jOrgan was *also*
able to support
more than one stereo Output pair with a single jOrgan Sound element
instance, there might
be very little need for ever having to create more than one fluidsynth Sound
element
instance in a single jOrgan disposition. This idea is probably not
practical to
implement, even if fluidsynth could support more than one stereo output
pair, because the
next issue to have to be addressed would be how to designate which audio
streams (ranks,
sf presets) should go to which output pairs. This could get messy.

CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
.... then multiple instances become possible
again!
Lynn Walls
2011-04-16 21:54:02 UTC
Permalink
John,

You need to understand that there is NO RELATIONSHIP WHATSOEVER between soundfonts loaded
into Fluidsynth and the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager. When a soundfont is loaded into
fluidsynth, that's the ONLY place where it is. When a soundfont is loaded for a Creative
SoundBlaster hardware synth, that's the ONLY time that the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager
or the Creative sound card synth will see it.

Expecting the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager to load or even see a soundfont loaded into
Fluidsynth would be like expecting your wife to get nourishment from the food that you
yourself ate.

CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by John Beach
In Fluidsynth dispositions in jOrgan, the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager
list never shows a soundfont bank loaded. Even if, when Importing a
soundfont and specifying the
bank (which is the only occasion in Fluidsynth that a bank number option is
shown) there is no indication in the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager that
Fluidsynth uses anything other than its own proprietary system for dealing
with the soundfont. There is no indication that RAM is allocated for that
purpose. Are the greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth as compared
with Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the soundfont? And,
would the polyphony limitations be imposed on Fluidsynth if the Soundfont
Bank Manager and its allocation of RAM memory cache is addressed using
Fluidsynth?
John Beach
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Walls
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 2:23 PM
Subject: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
(was: portaudio further testing)
For me, the second most important reason for having to define multiple fluidsynth Sound
elements in a single jOrgan disposition derives from the inability to load multiple
soundfont (.sf2) files into a single instance of fluidsynth.
With the Creative SoundBlaster HARDWARE Emu synth it was possible to use a soundfont
loader utility that could specify an initial BANK number for loading the soundfont file.
And then *additional* soundfont files could be loaded...starting at arbitrarily designated
bank numbers...until the specified memory limit was reached.
This very useful multiple soundfont file loading and bank designating capability seems not
to be available with fluidsynth...at least not as implemented in jOrgan, as there is only
one "Soundfont" property parameter in the Fluidsynth Sound element, and I do not see any
place to specify the beginning bank number.
If fluidsynth itself has the ability to handle a bank number specification and multiple
soundfont file loading, I would propose that this capability be extended to the jOrgan
interface.
CLW
P.S. The *first* most important reason for having multiple fluidsynth Sound element
instances in jOrgan is to be able to direct fluidsynth's single stereo audio output pair
to different stereo audio devices (when the hardware is available, as with the Delta
1010LT or the Saffire audio devices). If Fluidsynth in jOrgan was *also* able to support
more than one stereo Output pair with a single jOrgan Sound element instance, there might
be very little need for ever having to create more than one fluidsynth Sound element
instance in a single jOrgan disposition. This idea is probably not practical to
implement, even if fluidsynth could support more than one stereo output pair, because the
next issue to have to be addressed would be how to designate which audio streams (ranks,
sf presets) should go to which output pairs. This could get messy.
CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
.... then multiple instances become possible
again!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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John Beach
2011-04-16 22:14:29 UTC
Permalink
Well, Lynn, I suspect if you take the "one flesh" concept seriously, you
could imagine that she derives nourishment from what you eat.
But I do understand that there is no relationship whatsoever between
Fluidsynth and Creative Soundfont Bank Manager. I know nothing about
Fluidsynth
and supposed, because it is software, that it has its own system of
identifying the presets within a bank of sounds and has a system of
addresses for the soundbanks with which it is dealing. What explains the
greater polyphony? Seemingly to me, if the soundcard has the ability to
produce the polyphony of sounds for Fluidsynth, it should have the same
capability in Creative Sound applications. I have found that if I don't
allow the General Midi Synth Bank (0) of both synths A and B to load in the
Soundfont Bank Manager by default, that if I have a polyphony limitation in
Midi playback, at least I do not hear it and the General Midi sounds which
will play when that limitation is reached.
Now, if the soundcard can play back General Midi sounds from the bank in
synth bank 0 when that limitation is reached, it ought to be able to play
the additional stops that I have drawn which cause the polyphony limitation
to be reached in the first place.

John


-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Walls
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 5:54 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth

John,

You need to understand that there is NO RELATIONSHIP WHATSOEVER between
soundfonts loaded
into Fluidsynth and the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager. When a soundfont
is loaded into
fluidsynth, that's the ONLY place where it is. When a soundfont is loaded
for a Creative
SoundBlaster hardware synth, that's the ONLY time that the Creative
Soundfont Bank Manager
or the Creative sound card synth will see it.

Expecting the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager to load or even see a
soundfont loaded into
Fluidsynth would be like expecting your wife to get nourishment from the
food that you
yourself ate.

CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by John Beach
In Fluidsynth dispositions in jOrgan, the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager
list never shows a soundfont bank loaded. Even if, when Importing a
soundfont and specifying the
bank (which is the only occasion in Fluidsynth that a bank number option is
shown) there is no indication in the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager that
Fluidsynth uses anything other than its own proprietary system for dealing
with the soundfont. There is no indication that RAM is allocated for that
purpose. Are the greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth as compared
with Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the soundfont? And,
would the polyphony limitations be imposed on Fluidsynth if the Soundfont
Bank Manager and its allocation of RAM memory cache is addressed using
Fluidsynth?
John Beach
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Walls
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 2:23 PM
Subject: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
(was: portaudio further testing)
For me, the second most important reason for having to define multiple fluidsynth Sound
elements in a single jOrgan disposition derives from the inability to load multiple
soundfont (.sf2) files into a single instance of fluidsynth.
With the Creative SoundBlaster HARDWARE Emu synth it was possible to use a soundfont
loader utility that could specify an initial BANK number for loading the soundfont file.
And then *additional* soundfont files could be loaded...starting at arbitrarily designated
bank numbers...until the specified memory limit was reached.
This very useful multiple soundfont file loading and bank designating capability seems not
to be available with fluidsynth...at least not as implemented in jOrgan,
as
there is only
one "Soundfont" property parameter in the Fluidsynth Sound element, and I
do
not see any
place to specify the beginning bank number.
If fluidsynth itself has the ability to handle a bank number specification and multiple
soundfont file loading, I would propose that this capability be extended
to
the jOrgan
interface.
CLW
P.S. The *first* most important reason for having multiple fluidsynth
Sound
element
instances in jOrgan is to be able to direct fluidsynth's single stereo
audio
output pair
to different stereo audio devices (when the hardware is available, as with the Delta
1010LT or the Saffire audio devices). If Fluidsynth in jOrgan was *also* able to support
more than one stereo Output pair with a single jOrgan Sound element instance, there might
be very little need for ever having to create more than one fluidsynth
Sound
element
instance in a single jOrgan disposition. This idea is probably not practical to
implement, even if fluidsynth could support more than one stereo output pair, because the
next issue to have to be addressed would be how to designate which audio streams (ranks,
sf presets) should go to which output pairs. This could get messy.
CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
.... then multiple instances become possible
again!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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Sven Meier
2011-04-16 19:14:23 UTC
Permalink
Hi Graham,

yes, the 64-bit version will load a 64-bit PortAudio library. To be more
specific: the dll's name has to have a "portaudio" prefix.

Regards

Sven
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Sven,
I have just downloaded 3.13 beta 7 and am getting my dispositions
copied across for testing, so your email has arrived with good timing.
I will prepare new packages with just the dlls files in. I do have a
'combined build' (both WDMKS and ASIO in one dll), but I need to do a
few further tests myself before I am happy with releasing it. The one
issue that I am aware of (and have discussed with Rob), is that your
everyday user is simply presented with a list of devices and might not
know which is ASIO and which is WDMKS.
So, tonight I will upload new versions with just the dlls, slightly
change the instructions to match, and when my testing is done on the
combined version I will add that to the tutorial.
Will Dan's 64-bit also support the PortAudio library in the jOrgan lib path?
Kind regards,
GrahamG
ps. I have wanted to use fluidsynth with these drivers for years now,
so I am really happy that Rob managed to help me get a build compiled
and usable. The next step is to get native Jack for Windows support
into a fluidsynth build.... then multiple instances become possible
again!
Post by Sven Meier
Hi Graham,
starting with 3.13 beta7 the included Fluidsynth extension will happily
load any PortAudio library present in jOrgan's lib path.
Thus for further testing of PortAudio I'd like to propose the following
Please take down your special versions of the Fluidsynth extension and
provide zip files containing the two dlls only instead (portaudio...dll
and fluidsynth.dll).
This way we won't interfere with further testing of jOrgan 3.13 and your
splendid work.
Will it be possible to build a single fluidsynth version with both ASIO
and WDMK support?
Thank you very much for your efforts.
Sven
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
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priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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Roy Radford
2011-04-16 20:43:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Sven,

               I haven't managed to get into all this stuff properly yet but, mentioning .dll, is any of this thread relevant to a Ubuntu setup? I seem to vaguely recall reading that there is a way to use .dll files inLinux???

     Have fun,

         Roy.

--- On Sat, 16/4/11, Sven Meier <***@meiers.net> wrote:

From: Sven Meier <***@meiers.net>
Subject: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 18:35

Hi Graham,

starting with 3.13 beta7 the included Fluidsynth extension will happily
load any PortAudio library present in jOrgan's lib path.

Thus for further testing of PortAudio I'd like to propose the following
procedure:
Please take down your special versions of the Fluidsynth extension and
provide zip files containing the two dlls only instead (portaudio...dll
and fluidsynth.dll).
This way we won't interfere with further testing of jOrgan 3.13 and your
splendid work.

I think this was asked before but I don't remember seeing any answer yet:
Will it be possible to build a single fluidsynth version with both ASIO
and WDMK support?

Thank you very much for your efforts.

Sven
Graham Goode
2011-04-16 20:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Hi Roy,

We're attempting to get Windows to catch up with Linux here.... so you
can relax and not worry about all of this :)

GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Sven,
               I haven't managed to get into all this stuff properly yet
but, mentioning .dll, is any of this thread relevant to a Ubuntu setup? I
seem to vaguely recall reading that there is a way to use .dll files
inLinux???
     Have fun,
         Roy.
Subject: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing
Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 18:35
Hi Graham,
starting with 3.13 beta7 the included Fluidsynth extension will happily
load any PortAudio library present in jOrgan's lib path.
Thus for further testing of PortAudio I'd like to propose the following
Please take down your special versions of the Fluidsynth extension and
provide zip files containing the two dlls only instead (portaudio...dll
and fluidsynth.dll).
This way we won't interfere with further testing of jOrgan 3.13 and your
splendid work.
Will it be possible to build a single fluidsynth version with both ASIO
and WDMK support?
Thank you very much for your efforts.
Sven
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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Sven Meier
2011-04-16 20:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Exactly, we all could just use Linux and be over it ;).

Sven
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Roy,
We're attempting to get Windows to catch up with Linux here.... so you
can relax and not worry about all of this :)
GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Sven,
I haven't managed to get into all this stuff properly yet
but, mentioning .dll, is any of this thread relevant to a Ubuntu setup? I
seem to vaguely recall reading that there is a way to use .dll files
inLinux???
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing
Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 18:35
Hi Graham,
starting with 3.13 beta7 the included Fluidsynth extension will happily
load any PortAudio library present in jOrgan's lib path.
Thus for further testing of PortAudio I'd like to propose the following
Please take down your special versions of the Fluidsynth extension and
provide zip files containing the two dlls only instead (portaudio...dll
and fluidsynth.dll).
This way we won't interfere with further testing of jOrgan 3.13 and your
splendid work.
Will it be possible to build a single fluidsynth version with both ASIO
and WDMK support?
Thank you very much for your efforts.
Sven
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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orgel jeux
2011-04-16 21:00:57 UTC
Permalink
As soon as it has drivers for my audio card and there is additional audio
software that has the same possibilities then what I am using under Windows,
i'll be in for it.

Geert
Post by Sven Meier
Exactly, we all could just use Linux and be over it ;).
Sven
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Roy,
We're attempting to get Windows to catch up with Linux here.... so you
can relax and not worry about all of this :)
GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Sven,
I haven't managed to get into all this stuff properly
yet
Post by Graham Goode
Post by Roy Radford
but, mentioning .dll, is any of this thread relevant to a Ubuntu setup?
I
Post by Graham Goode
Post by Roy Radford
seem to vaguely recall reading that there is a way to use .dll files
inLinux???
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing
Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 18:35
Hi Graham,
starting with 3.13 beta7 the included Fluidsynth extension will happily
load any PortAudio library present in jOrgan's lib path.
Thus for further testing of PortAudio I'd like to propose the following
Please take down your special versions of the Fluidsynth extension and
provide zip files containing the two dlls only instead (portaudio...dll
and fluidsynth.dll).
This way we won't interfere with further testing of jOrgan 3.13 and your
splendid work.
I think this was asked before but I don't remember seeing any answer
Will it be possible to build a single fluidsynth version with both ASIO
and WDMK support?
Thank you very much for your efforts.
Sven
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
Post by Roy Radford
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
improve
Post by Graham Goode
Post by Roy Radford
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting
Post by Graham Goode
Post by Roy Radford
the value of server virtualization.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
Post by Graham Goode
Post by Roy Radford
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
improve
Post by Graham Goode
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting
Post by Graham Goode
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-16 21:40:28 UTC
Permalink
Yes, lucky you the ones running jOrgan on a Linux (Puppy, Ubuntu, ....)
system.

Having jack, fluidsynth, linuxsampler, jconvolver, .....you have
everything in place :
multiple fluidsynth instances, multi-channel audio routing, impulse
response reverb, and of course jOrgan 32 and 64 bit.

All this hectic testing, borrowing heavily from linux developments, is
just to try to get Windows on par with Linux.
We are not there yet, but progressing fast and coming close.
Exciting times we live.

Erik.
---------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Roy,
We're attempting to get Windows to catch up with Linux here.... so you
can relax and not worry about all of this :)
GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Sven,
I haven't managed to get into all this stuff properly yet
but, mentioning .dll, is any of this thread relevant to a Ubuntu setup? I
seem to vaguely recall reading that there is a way to use .dll files
inLinux???
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing
Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 18:35
Hi Graham,
starting with 3.13 beta7 the included Fluidsynth extension will happily
load any PortAudio library present in jOrgan's lib path.
Thus for further testing of PortAudio I'd like to propose the following
Please take down your special versions of the Fluidsynth extension and
provide zip files containing the two dlls only instead (portaudio...dll
and fluidsynth.dll).
This way we won't interfere with further testing of jOrgan 3.13 and your
splendid work.
Will it be possible to build a single fluidsynth version with both ASIO
and WDMK support?
Thank you very much for your efforts.
Sven
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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Roy Radford
2011-04-16 20:45:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi, John,

               Yes, I've noticed that before. The jOrgan and Creative Soundfont loaders seem to live in different worlds.

      Have fun,

           Roy.

--- On Sat, 16/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:

From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth (was: portaudio further testing)
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 21:37

In Fluidsynth dispositions in jOrgan,  the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager
list never shows a soundfont bank loaded.  Even if, when Importing a
soundfont and specifying the
bank (which is the only occasion in Fluidsynth that a bank number option is
shown) there is no indication in the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager that
Fluidsynth uses anything other than its own proprietary system for dealing
with the soundfont.  There is no indication that RAM is allocated for that
purpose.   Are the greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth as compared
with Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the soundfont?  And,
would the polyphony limitations be imposed on Fluidsynth if the Soundfont
Bank Manager and its allocation of RAM memory cache is addressed using
Fluidsynth?

John Beach





-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Walls
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 2:23 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
(was: portaudio further testing)

For me, the second most important reason for having to define multiple
fluidsynth Sound
elements in a single jOrgan disposition derives from the inability to load
multiple
soundfont (.sf2) files into a single instance of fluidsynth.

With the Creative SoundBlaster HARDWARE Emu synth it was possible to use a
soundfont
loader utility that could specify an initial BANK number for loading the
soundfont file.
And then *additional* soundfont files could be loaded...starting at
arbitrarily designated
bank numbers...until the specified memory limit was reached.

This very useful multiple soundfont file loading and bank designating
capability seems not
to be available with fluidsynth...at least not as implemented in jOrgan, as
there is only
one "Soundfont" property parameter in the Fluidsynth Sound element, and I do
not see any
place to specify the beginning bank number.

If fluidsynth itself has the ability to handle a bank number specification
and multiple
soundfont file loading, I would propose that this capability be extended to
the jOrgan
interface.

CLW

P.S. The *first* most important reason for having multiple fluidsynth Sound
element
instances in jOrgan is to be able to direct fluidsynth's single stereo audio
output pair
to different stereo audio devices (when the hardware is available, as with
the Delta
1010LT or the Saffire audio devices).  If Fluidsynth in jOrgan was *also*
able to support
more than one stereo Output pair with a single jOrgan Sound element
instance, there might
be very little need for ever having to create more than one fluidsynth Sound
element
instance in a single jOrgan disposition.  This idea is probably not
practical to
implement, even if fluidsynth could support more than one stereo output
pair, because the
next issue to have to be addressed would be how to designate which audio
streams (ranks,
sf presets) should go to which output pairs.  This could get messy.

CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
.... then multiple instances become possible
again!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
Panos Ghekas
2011-04-16 22:20:10 UTC
Permalink
Ok,

But, can we get the power lets say of Kontakt4 in Linux?
Or the East West Quantum Leap Symphomic Orchestra and/or Choirs?
Or the extremely powerful Independence and Engine samplers?

LinuxSampler is great, for windows lately came better and I'm using it a lot, but is far from being close to Kontakt4.
Oberhausbergen model with a jOrgan/Kontakt hybrid is playin' marvelous here....

Ofcourse Linux OS is far better than Windows OS no doubt, more clean and open....

best
Panos

--- Óôéò ÓÜâ., 16/04/11, ï/ç Erik De Schrijver <***@skynet.be> Ýãñáøå:

Áðü: Erik De Schrijver <***@skynet.be>
ÈÝìá: Re: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing
Ðñïò: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Çìåñïìçíßá: ÓÜââáôï, 16 Áðñßëéïò 2011, 21:40

Yes, lucky you the ones running jOrgan on a Linux (Puppy, Ubuntu, ....)
system.

Having jack, fluidsynth, linuxsampler, jconvolver, .....you have
everything in place :
multiple fluidsynth instances, multi-channel audio routing, impulse
response reverb, and of course jOrgan 32 and 64 bit.

All this hectic testing, borrowing heavily from linux developments, is
just to try to get Windows on par with Linux.
We are not there yet, but progressing fast and coming close.
Exciting times we live.

Erik.
---------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Roy,
We're attempting to get Windows to catch up with Linux here.... so you
can relax and not worry about all of this :)
GrahamG
   
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Sven,
                 I haven't managed to get into all this stuff properly yet
but, mentioning .dll, is any of this thread relevant to a Ubuntu setup? I
seem to vaguely recall reading that there is a way to use .dll files
inLinux???
       Have fun,
           Roy.
Subject: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing
Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 18:35
Hi Graham,
starting with 3.13 beta7 the included Fluidsynth extension will happily
load any PortAudio library present in jOrgan's lib path.
Thus for further testing of PortAudio I'd like to propose the following
Please take down your special versions of the Fluidsynth extension and
provide zip files containing the two dlls only instead (portaudio...dll
and fluidsynth.dll).
This way we won't interfere with further testing of jOrgan 3.13 and your
splendid work.
Will it be possible to build a single fluidsynth version with both ASIO
and WDMK support?
Thank you very much for your efforts.
Sven
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
     
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-16 22:41:21 UTC
Permalink
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
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http-equiv="Content-Type">
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Hello Panos,<br>
<br>
You are the expert, so i believe it if you refer to those 3 products.<br>
<br>
I am not familiar with them. Should i look closer into them?<br>
What am i missing?<br>
<br>
All the best.<br>
<br>
Erik. <br>
<br>
Panos Ghekas wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:***@web29117.mail.ird.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; -x-system-font: none;"
valign="top"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">Ok,<br>
<br>
But, can we get the power lets say of Kontakt4 in Linux?<br>
Or the East West Quantum Leap Symphomic Orchestra and/or Choirs?<br>
Or the extremely powerful Independence and Engine samplers?<br>
<br>
LinuxSampler is great, for windows lately came better and I'm using it
a lot, but is far from being close to Kontakt4.<br>
Oberhausbergen model with a jOrgan/Kontakt hybrid is playin' marvelous
here....<br>
<br>
Ofcourse Linux OS is far better than Windows OS no doubt, more clean
and open....<br>
<br>
best<br>
Panos<br>
</span><br>
--- Στις <b>Σάβ., 16/04/11, ο/η Erik De Schrijver <i><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:***@skynet.be">&lt;***@skynet.be&gt;</a></i></b>
έγραψε:<br>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>
Από: Erik De Schrijver <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:***@skynet.be">&lt;***@skynet.be&gt;</a><br>
Θέμα: Re: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing<br>
Προς: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net">jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
Ημερομηνία: Σάββατο, 16 Απρίλιος 2011, 21:40<br>
<br>
<div class="plainMail">Yes, lucky you the ones running jOrgan
on a Linux (Puppy, Ubuntu, ....) <br>
system.<br>
<br>
Having jack, fluidsynth, linuxsampler, jconvolver, .....you have <br>
everything in place :<br>
multiple fluidsynth instances, multi-channel audio routing, impulse <br>
response reverb, and of course jOrgan 32 and 64 bit.<br>
<br>
All this hectic testing, borrowing heavily from linux developments, is <br>
just to try to get Windows on par with Linux.<br>
We are not there yet, but progressing fast and coming close.<br>
Exciting times we live.<br>
<br>
Erik.<br>
---------------------------------------<br>
Graham Goode wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi Roy,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; We're attempting to get Windows to catch up with Linux here.... so
you<br>
&gt; can relax and not worry about all of this :)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; GrahamG<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On 4/16/11, Roy Radford&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:***@yahoo.co.uk"
href="/mc/compose?to=***@yahoo.co.uk">***@yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; 
wrote:<br>
&gt;    <br>
&gt;&gt; Hi, Sven,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;                 I haven't managed to get into all this stuff
properly yet<br>
&gt;&gt; but, mentioning .dll, is any of this thread relevant to a
Ubuntu setup? I<br>
&gt;&gt; seem to vaguely recall reading that there is a way to use .dll
files<br>
&gt;&gt; inLinux???<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;       Have fun,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;           Roy.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; --- On Sat, 16/4/11, Sven Meier&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:***@meiers.net" href="/mc/compose?to=***@meiers.net">***@meiers.net</a>&gt; 
wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; From: Sven Meier&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:***@meiers.net" href="/mc/compose?to=***@meiers.net">***@meiers.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Subject: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing<br>
&gt;&gt; To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net"
href="/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net">jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 18:35<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Hi Graham,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; starting with 3.13 beta7 the included Fluidsynth extension
will happily<br>
&gt;&gt; load any PortAudio library present in jOrgan's lib path.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Thus for further testing of PortAudio I'd like to propose the
following<br>
&gt;&gt; procedure:<br>
&gt;&gt; Please take down your special versions of the Fluidsynth
extension and<br>
&gt;&gt; provide zip files containing the two dlls only instead
(portaudio...dll<br>
&gt;&gt; and fluidsynth.dll).<br>
&gt;&gt; This way we won't interfere with further testing of jOrgan
3.13 and your<br>
&gt;&gt; splendid work.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; I think this was asked before but I don't remember seeing any
answer yet:<br>
&gt;&gt; Will it be possible to build a single fluidsynth version with
both ASIO<br>
&gt;&gt; and WDMK support?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Thank you very much for your efforts.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Sven<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
&gt;&gt; Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload<br>
&gt;&gt; Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization
is a top<br>
&gt;&gt; priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management,
and improve<br>
&gt;&gt; application availability and disaster protection. Learn more
about boosting<br>
&gt;&gt; the value of server virtualization. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev</a><br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; jOrgan-user mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net"
href="/mc/compose?to=jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net">jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user"
target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;      <br>
&gt;
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload<br>
&gt; Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a
top<br>
&gt; priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
improve<br>
&gt; application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting<br>
&gt; the value of server virtualization. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev</a><br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; jOrgan-user mailing list<br>
&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net"
href="/mc/compose?to=jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net">jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user"
target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;    <br>
<br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload <br>
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top<br>
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
improve <br>
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting <br>
the value of server virtualization. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
jOrgan-user mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net"
href="/mc/compose?to=jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net">jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user"
target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev">http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev</a></pre>
<pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net">jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
Roy Radford
2011-04-16 22:46:56 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Graham,

                   Great, thanks... I can catch up on some organ practice!  

      Have fun,

          Roy.


--- On Sat, 16/4/11, Graham Goode <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Graham Goode <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 21:46

Hi Roy,

We're attempting to get Windows to catch up with Linux here.... so you
can relax and not worry about all of this :)

GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Sven,
               I haven't managed to get into all this stuff properly yet
but, mentioning .dll, is any of this thread relevant to a Ubuntu setup? I
seem to vaguely recall reading that there is a way to use .dll files
inLinux???
     Have fun,
         Roy.
Subject: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing
Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 18:35
Hi Graham,
starting with 3.13 beta7 the included Fluidsynth extension will happily
load any PortAudio library present in jOrgan's lib path.
Thus for further testing of PortAudio I'd like to propose the following
Please take down your special versions of the Fluidsynth extension and
provide zip files containing the two dlls only instead (portaudio...dll
and fluidsynth.dll).
This way we won't interfere with further testing of jOrgan 3.13 and your
splendid work.
Will it be possible to build a single fluidsynth version with both ASIO
and WDMK support?
Thank you very much for your efforts.
Sven
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
Roy Radford
2011-04-16 22:54:03 UTC
Permalink
  What a GOOD IDEA!  


    Have fun,

         Roy.

 

--- On Sat, 16/4/11, Sven Meier <***@meiers.net> wrote:

From: Sven Meier <***@meiers.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 21:56

Exactly, we all could just use Linux and be over it ;).

Sven
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Roy,
We're attempting to get Windows to catch up with Linux here.... so you
can relax and not worry about all of this :)
GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Sven,
                 I haven't managed to get into all this stuff properly yet
but, mentioning .dll, is any of this thread relevant to a Ubuntu setup? I
seem to vaguely recall reading that there is a way to use .dll files
inLinux???
       Have fun,
           Roy.
Subject: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing
Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 18:35
Hi Graham,
starting with 3.13 beta7 the included Fluidsynth extension will happily
load any PortAudio library present in jOrgan's lib path.
Thus for further testing of PortAudio I'd like to propose the following
Please take down your special versions of the Fluidsynth extension and
provide zip files containing the two dlls only instead (portaudio...dll
and fluidsynth.dll).
This way we won't interfere with further testing of jOrgan 3.13 and your
splendid work.
Will it be possible to build a single fluidsynth version with both ASIO
and WDMK support?
Thank you very much for your efforts.
Sven
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
BCA
2011-04-17 09:02:35 UTC
Permalink
Gentlemen,

we would really open the minds if we once could suppress any polarizing into
an EITHER Linux OR Windows direction. jOrgan is already an universal tool,
with nearly unlimited offerings for ANY approach - it doesn't judge any OS
as "better" or "bader", it doesn't compare, it doesn't compete, and we
should open our consciousness, too.

Such a point of view does heal other things, too.

My opinion.

Regards
Bernd.



--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/portaudio-further-testing-tp3454305p3455152.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-17 09:49:11 UTC
Permalink
100% in agreement.

I try to contribute a little bit by testing Windows as well as Linux (on
Ubuntu and Puppy) versions and all work very nicely here.
I have no Mac, so this version is beyond my scope.

All the best.

Erik.
---------------------------------
Post by BCA
Gentlemen,
we would really open the minds if we once could suppress any polarizing into
an EITHER Linux OR Windows direction. jOrgan is already an universal tool,
with nearly unlimited offerings for ANY approach - it doesn't judge any OS
as "better" or "bader", it doesn't compare, it doesn't compete, and we
should open our consciousness, too.
Such a point of view does heal other things, too.
My opinion.
Regards
Bernd.
--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/portaudio-further-testing-tp3454305p3455152.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
Jonathan Aquilina
2011-04-17 14:13:24 UTC
Permalink
Erik would you mind emailing me in private a list of steps that you did
to get jorgan working on ubuntu linux please.

What version did you test it on because im having one hell of a time
getting any audio output on ubuntu 11.04 64bit beta.
Post by Erik De Schrijver
100% in agreement.
I try to contribute a little bit by testing Windows as well as Linux (on
Ubuntu and Puppy) versions and all work very nicely here.
I have no Mac, so this version is beyond my scope.
All the best.
Erik.
---------------------------------
Post by BCA
Gentlemen,
we would really open the minds if we once could suppress any polarizing into
an EITHER Linux OR Windows direction. jOrgan is already an universal tool,
with nearly unlimited offerings for ANY approach - it doesn't judge any OS
as "better" or "bader", it doesn't compare, it doesn't compete, and we
should open our consciousness, too.
Such a point of view does heal other things, too.
My opinion.
Regards
Bernd.
--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/portaudio-further-testing-tp3454305p3455152.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
orgel jeux
2011-04-17 20:01:51 UTC
Permalink
Fully agreed, Bernd......

Erik, is it really true, that at the moment you can have multiple FS
instances with WDM/KS ?????

And if so, can they all point towards the same output pair of your
Focusrite??

If so, I could try this out also. 2 days ago I could only assign 1 x FS to
portaudio/WDMKS.

So this means that you play the Sagrada now with no latency?????? This would
be extremely nice for me!

Greetings,

Geert
Post by Jonathan Aquilina
Erik would you mind emailing me in private a list of steps that you did
to get jorgan working on ubuntu linux please.
What version did you test it on because im having one hell of a time
getting any audio output on ubuntu 11.04 64bit beta.
Post by Erik De Schrijver
100% in agreement.
I try to contribute a little bit by testing Windows as well as Linux (on
Ubuntu and Puppy) versions and all work very nicely here.
I have no Mac, so this version is beyond my scope.
All the best.
Erik.
---------------------------------
Post by BCA
Gentlemen,
we would really open the minds if we once could suppress any polarizing
into
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
an EITHER Linux OR Windows direction. jOrgan is already an universal
tool,
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
with nearly unlimited offerings for ANY approach - it doesn't judge any
OS
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
as "better" or "bader", it doesn't compare, it doesn't compete, and we
should open our consciousness, too.
Such a point of view does heal other things, too.
My opinion.
Regards
Bernd.
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/portaudio-further-testing-tp3454305p3455152.html
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
improve
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
the value of server virtualization.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
improve
Post by Erik De Schrijver
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting
Post by Erik De Schrijver
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-17 20:28:30 UTC
Permalink
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
Hello Geert,<br>
<br>
Please look <a
href="http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Testing-WDMKS-drivers-Multichannel-audio-tt3444370.html#a3447426#none">here</a>
.<br>
<br>
We have been all over it already.<br>
<br>
Short answers: see below.<br>
<br>
Erik.<br>
------------------------<br>
<br>
orgel jeux wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:BANLkTi=***@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Fully agreed, Bernd......<br>
<br>
Erik, is it really true, that at the moment you can have multiple FS
instances with WDM/KS ?????<br>
</blockquote>
Yes<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:BANLkTi=***@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite"><br>
And if so, can they all point towards the same output pair of your
Focusrite??<br>
</blockquote>
No , as already clarified, each FS instance to its own output channel
pair.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:BANLkTi=***@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite"><br>
If so, I could try this out also. 2 days ago I could only assign 1 x&nbsp;
FS to portaudio/WDMKS.<br>
<br>
So this means that you play the Sagrada now with no latency?????? This
would be extremely nice for me!<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
Geert<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/4/17 Jonathan Aquilina <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:***@gmail.com">***@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Erik
would you mind emailing me in private a list of steps that you did<br>
to get jorgan working on ubuntu linux please.<br>
<br>
What version did you test it on because im having one hell of a time<br>
getting any audio output on ubuntu 11.04 64bit beta.<br>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
On 4/17/11 11:49 AM, Erik De Schrijver wrote:<br>
&gt; 100% in agreement.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I try to contribute a little bit by testing Windows as well as
Linux (on<br>
&gt; Ubuntu and Puppy) versions and all work very nicely here.<br>
&gt; I have no Mac, so this version is beyond my scope.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; All the best.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Erik.<br>
&gt; ---------------------------------<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; BCA wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Gentlemen,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; we would really open the minds if we once could suppress any
polarizing into<br>
&gt;&gt; an EITHER Linux OR Windows direction. jOrgan is already an
universal tool,<br>
&gt;&gt; with nearly unlimited offerings for ANY approach - it doesn't
judge any OS<br>
&gt;&gt; as "better" or "bader", it doesn't compare, it doesn't
compete, and we<br>
&gt;&gt; should open our consciousness, too.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Such a point of view does heal other things, too.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; My opinion.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Regards<br>
&gt;&gt; Bernd.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; --<br>
&gt;&gt; View this message in context: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/portaudio-further-testing-tp3454305p3455152.html"
target="_blank">http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/portaudio-further-testing-tp3454305p3455152.html</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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&gt;&gt; Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization
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&gt;&gt; priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management,
and improve<br>
&gt;&gt; application availability and disaster protection. Learn more
about boosting<br>
&gt;&gt; the value of server virtualization. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev</a><br>
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target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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top<br>
&gt; priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
improve<br>
&gt; application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting<br>
&gt; the value of server virtualization. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev</a><br>
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target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user</a><br>
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improve<br>
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
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the value of server virtualization. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div
style="padding: 0px; overflow: hidden; visibility: hidden; left: -5000px; position: absolute; z-index: 9999; margin-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; color: black; font-size: 10px; text-align: left; line-height: 130%;"
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Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
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orgel jeux
2011-04-17 21:33:51 UTC
Permalink
Ok Thanks, that prevents me going into further tests again, as my EMU is
only seen as one output item.

I wonder, how you remix all those Sagrada ( 8 times) output pairs; you can
do it simply by using a resistor ladder network to get a fixed stereo
output.

Or, perhpas, can you do that with the Focusrite software remix??

All in all your card is so very flexible..

Greetings,

Geert
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Hello Geert,
Please look here<http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Testing-WDMKS-drivers-Multichannel-audio-tt3444370.html#a3447426%23none>.
We have been all over it already.
Short answers: see below.
Erik.
------------------------
Fully agreed, Bernd......
Erik, is it really true, that at the moment you can have multiple FS
instances with WDM/KS ?????
Yes
And if so, can they all point towards the same output pair of your
Focusrite??
No , as already clarified, each FS instance to its own output channel pair.
If so, I could try this out also. 2 days ago I could only assign 1 x FS to
portaudio/WDMKS.
So this means that you play the Sagrada now with no latency?????? This
would be extremely nice for me!
Greetings,
Geert
Post by Jonathan Aquilina
Erik would you mind emailing me in private a list of steps that you did
to get jorgan working on ubuntu linux please.
What version did you test it on because im having one hell of a time
getting any audio output on ubuntu 11.04 64bit beta.
Post by Erik De Schrijver
100% in agreement.
I try to contribute a little bit by testing Windows as well as Linux (on
Ubuntu and Puppy) versions and all work very nicely here.
I have no Mac, so this version is beyond my scope.
All the best.
Erik.
---------------------------------
Post by BCA
Gentlemen,
we would really open the minds if we once could suppress any polarizing
into
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
an EITHER Linux OR Windows direction. jOrgan is already an universal
tool,
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
with nearly unlimited offerings for ANY approach - it doesn't judge any
OS
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
as "better" or "bader", it doesn't compare, it doesn't compete, and we
should open our consciousness, too.
Such a point of view does heal other things, too.
My opinion.
Regards
Bernd.
--
http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/portaudio-further-testing-tp3454305p3455152.html
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
improve
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
the value of server virtualization.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Post by BCA
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and
improve
Post by Erik De Schrijver
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting
Post by Erik De Schrijver
the value of server virtualization.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
Post by Erik De Schrijver
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_______________________________________________
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Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-17 22:20:13 UTC
Permalink
Hello Geert,

See answers below.
Post by orgel jeux
Ok Thanks, that prevents me going into further tests again, as my EMU
is only seen as one output item.
I wonder, how you remix all those Sagrada ( 8 times) output pairs; you
can do it simply by using a resistor ladder network to get a fixed
stereo output.
Using WDMKS, since i have 5 pairs of audio channels, from which 1 SPDIF,
i could only assign maximum 5 out of the 10 fluidsynth elements of this
disposition.

To assign all 10, i have to use dsound, where multiple fluidsynth
elements can be assigned to a single audio channel pair.

Usually i have 2 channels for front, 2 for sideways, 2 for back, 2 for bass.
I frequently assign Great to front, Positif and/or Swell to sideways,
Pedal to bass, and reverb to back.
Post by orgel jeux
Or, perhpas, can you do that with the Focusrite software remix??
In the Focusrite mixer i can define how much of the signal from any of
the 5 incoming audio channel pairs is send to each of the 5 outgoing
audio channel pairs that are connected to the audio amplifiers.
Post by orgel jeux
All in all your card is so very flexible..
Greetings,
Geert
All the best.

Erik.
orgel jeux
2011-04-18 08:03:41 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Erik; that's really very flexible and without the need of outboard
hardware mixers etc.

Indeed, I made a mistake; you have 10 channels, but you need 2 ch already
for one stereo FS.

It must be really challenging to use the Saffire this way.

In the past I helped a friend of mine constructing his 3M console. He also
has the Saffire and has six active monitorspeakers in the console, 2 big
floorstanding ones left and right ( Pedal) and the SPDIF out is connected to
speakers in the back, used primairily for thesurround portion of the
samples.

I must say, that the Saffire is indeed a very flexible piece of hardware.

A my setup is in a small room, AND I have neighbours, AND my house is not
very well isolated, AND my hearing is detoriated some 30 dB, for me this is
no option.

Although I have plenty of amps and speakers, I most of the time play on
Sennheiser HD 595 headphones.

But the flexibility and - as we have seen now - very good construction of
the drivers, still makes it a very wish to have piece.

Thanks for the descripiton, and a pity we cannot hear how it sounds
acoustically in your room........

Geert
Post by Erik De Schrijver
Hello Geert,
See answers below.
Post by orgel jeux
Ok Thanks, that prevents me going into further tests again, as my EMU
is only seen as one output item.
I wonder, how you remix all those Sagrada ( 8 times) output pairs; you
can do it simply by using a resistor ladder network to get a fixed
stereo output.
Using WDMKS, since i have 5 pairs of audio channels, from which 1 SPDIF,
i could only assign maximum 5 out of the 10 fluidsynth elements of this
disposition.
To assign all 10, i have to use dsound, where multiple fluidsynth
elements can be assigned to a single audio channel pair.
Usually i have 2 channels for front, 2 for sideways, 2 for back, 2 for bass.
I frequently assign Great to front, Positif and/or Swell to sideways,
Pedal to bass, and reverb to back.
Post by orgel jeux
Or, perhpas, can you do that with the Focusrite software remix??
In the Focusrite mixer i can define how much of the signal from any of
the 5 incoming audio channel pairs is send to each of the 5 outgoing
audio channel pairs that are connected to the audio amplifiers.
Post by orgel jeux
All in all your card is so very flexible..
Greetings,
Geert
All the best.
Erik.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
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Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-20 12:40:16 UTC
Permalink
Done on 04/17/2011.

Did you get it?

Erik.
------------------------------------
Post by Jonathan Aquilina
Erik would you mind emailing me in private a list of steps that you did
to get jorgan working on ubuntu linux please.
What version did you test it on because im having one hell of a time
getting any audio output on ubuntu 11.04 64bit beta.
Post by Erik De Schrijver
100% in agreement.
I try to contribute a little bit by testing Windows as well as Linux (on
Ubuntu and Puppy) versions and all work very nicely here.
I have no Mac, so this version is beyond my scope.
All the best.
Erik.
---------------------------------
Post by BCA
Gentlemen,
we would really open the minds if we once could suppress any polarizing into
an EITHER Linux OR Windows direction. jOrgan is already an universal tool,
with nearly unlimited offerings for ANY approach - it doesn't judge any OS
as "better" or "bader", it doesn't compare, it doesn't compete, and we
should open our consciousness, too.
Such a point of view does heal other things, too.
My opinion.
Regards
Bernd.
--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/portaudio-further-testing-tp3454305p3455152.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
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the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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Roy Radford
2011-04-16 22:58:22 UTC
Permalink
   I must admit drivers ARE a bit of a PITA in Ubuntu but the situation is improving all the time. The Linux teams have the best of intentions here but one problem is the soundcard manufacturers won't always release the full software specifications to let them do a proper job.


      Have fun,

           Roy.


--- On Sat, 16/4/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 22:00

As soon as it has drivers for my audio card and there is additional audio software that has the same possibilities then what I am using under Windows, i'll be in for it.

Geert

2011/4/16 Sven Meier <***@meiers.net>

Exactly, we all could just use Linux and be over it ;).



Sven
Post by Graham Goode
Hi Roy,
We're attempting to get Windows to catch up with Linux here.... so you
can relax and not worry about all of this :)
GrahamG
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Sven,
                I haven't managed to get into all this stuff properly yet
but, mentioning .dll, is any of this thread relevant to a Ubuntu setup? I
seem to vaguely recall reading that there is a way to use .dll files
inLinux???
      Have fun,
          Roy.
Subject: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing
Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 18:35
Hi Graham,
starting with 3.13 beta7 the included Fluidsynth extension will happily
load any PortAudio library present in jOrgan's lib path.
Thus for further testing of PortAudio I'd like to propose the following
Please take down your special versions of the Fluidsynth extension and
provide zip files containing the two dlls only instead (portaudio...dll
and fluidsynth.dll).
This way we won't interfere with further testing of jOrgan 3.13 and your
splendid work.
Will it be possible to build a single fluidsynth version with both ASIO
and WDMK support?
Thank you very much for your efforts.
Sven
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top

priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve

application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting

the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev

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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Jonathan Aquilina
2011-04-17 09:07:35 UTC
Permalink
Roy what driver issues are you experiencing on ubuntu? I am having
issues finding my keyboard drivers for linux :( i wonder if m-audio has
the specs somewhere to where i can code my own linux drivers.
Roy Radford
2011-04-16 23:04:36 UTC
Permalink
  "like expecting your wife to get nourishment from the food that you
yourself ate."

    Hmmm... I don't think we should explore all the ramifications of THAT proposition here!   


      Have fun,

          Roy.


--- On Sat, 16/4/11, Lynn Walls <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Lynn Walls <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 22:54

John,

You need to understand that there is NO RELATIONSHIP WHATSOEVER between soundfonts loaded
into Fluidsynth and the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager.  When a soundfont is loaded into
fluidsynth, that's the ONLY place where it is.  When a soundfont is loaded for a Creative
SoundBlaster hardware synth, that's the ONLY time that the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager
or the Creative sound card synth will see it.

Expecting the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager to load or even see a soundfont loaded into
Fluidsynth would be like expecting your wife to get nourishment from the food that you
yourself ate.

CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Roy Radford
In Fluidsynth dispositions in jOrgan,  the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager
list never shows a soundfont bank loaded.  Even if, when Importing a
soundfont and specifying the
bank (which is the only occasion in Fluidsynth that a bank number option is
shown) there is no indication in the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager that
Fluidsynth uses anything other than its own proprietary system for dealing
with the soundfont.  There is no indication that RAM is allocated for that
purpose.   Are the greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth as compared
with Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the soundfont?  And,
would the polyphony limitations be imposed on Fluidsynth if the Soundfont
Bank Manager and its allocation of RAM memory cache is addressed using
Fluidsynth?
John Beach
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Walls
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 2:23 PM
Subject: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
(was: portaudio further testing)
For me, the second most important reason for having to define multiple
fluidsynth Sound
elements in a single jOrgan disposition derives from the inability to load
multiple
soundfont (.sf2) files into a single instance of fluidsynth.
With the Creative SoundBlaster HARDWARE Emu synth it was possible to use a
soundfont
loader utility that could specify an initial BANK number for loading the
soundfont file.
And then *additional* soundfont files could be loaded...starting at
arbitrarily designated
bank numbers...until the specified memory limit was reached.
This very useful multiple soundfont file loading and bank designating
capability seems not
to be available with fluidsynth...at least not as implemented in jOrgan, as
there is only
one "Soundfont" property parameter in the Fluidsynth Sound element, and I do
not see any
place to specify the beginning bank number.
If fluidsynth itself has the ability to handle a bank number specification
and multiple
soundfont file loading, I would propose that this capability be extended to
the jOrgan
interface.
CLW
P.S. The *first* most important reason for having multiple fluidsynth Sound
element
instances in jOrgan is to be able to direct fluidsynth's single stereo audio
output pair
to different stereo audio devices (when the hardware is available, as with
the Delta
1010LT or the Saffire audio devices).  If Fluidsynth in jOrgan was *also*
able to support
more than one stereo Output pair with a single jOrgan Sound element
instance, there might
be very little need for ever having to create more than one fluidsynth Sound
element
instance in a single jOrgan disposition.  This idea is probably not
practical to
implement, even if fluidsynth could support more than one stereo output
pair, because the
next issue to have to be addressed would be how to designate which audio
streams (ranks,
sf presets) should go to which output pairs.  This could get messy.
CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Graham Goode
.... then multiple instances become possible
again!
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Graham Goode
2011-04-17 10:05:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi John, Lynn, Roy, and all following this thread.

The Creative Soundfont player is a piece of logic (software) that
inhabits a memory chip on the Creative Card. It loads the wave files
and the sf2 management information into the memory on the soundcard
(this is true of the early models, I think later ones could have
access to your user RAM) and then outputs the sounds directly to the
audio chip on the Creative Card. Fluidsynth is a piece of logic
(software) that inhabits the computer's memory and uses the computers
CPU to load the SF2 management information and produce the sounds,
reverbs, chorus effects, etc. The Creative SF2 player only has access
to the processing power of the 'on-the-card' chip. Fluidsynth has
access to the processing power of your whole computer.

The greater polyphony from fluidsynth is a direct result of this
access to greater processing power.

Hope that makes sense :)
Post by John Beach
Are the greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth as
compared
with Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the soundfont?
Kind regards,
GrahamG
John Beach
2011-04-17 11:58:34 UTC
Permalink
Graham, thanks for that explanation of how Fluidsynth differs from Creative
in playback. The AWE 64 soundcards had piggyback or daughterboard memory
modules from 4 to 24 Megabytes that were expensive add-ons to those
soundcards. With the SB Live! Audigy and X-Fi soundcards, there is a
Soundfont Memory Cache feature in the Soundfont Bank Manager which is
user-settable and, in my case, having 4 gigabytes of physical memory, I
could allocate 2 gigabytes of that to soundfont cache, if desired. I keep
it right around 100 Mb which accommodates a General Midi Bank and the organ
soundfonts I may use in jOrgan. Like the difference between "physical
memory" and "virtual memory" in the Accessories>System Tools>System
Information in Windows, it would be nice if there were a "virtual
processing" capability with the Creative Labs cards so they could handle all
the polyphony demands that organs make on them.

John B.

-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Goode
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:05 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth

Hi John, Lynn, Roy, and all following this thread.

The Creative Soundfont player is a piece of logic (software) that
inhabits a memory chip on the Creative Card. It loads the wave files
and the sf2 management information into the memory on the soundcard
(this is true of the early models, I think later ones could have
access to your user RAM) and then outputs the sounds directly to the
audio chip on the Creative Card. Fluidsynth is a piece of logic
(software) that inhabits the computer's memory and uses the computers
CPU to load the SF2 management information and produce the sounds,
reverbs, chorus effects, etc. The Creative SF2 player only has access
to the processing power of the 'on-the-card' chip. Fluidsynth has
access to the processing power of your whole computer.

The greater polyphony from fluidsynth is a direct result of this
access to greater processing power.

Hope that makes sense :)
Post by John Beach
Are the greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth as
compared
with Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the soundfont?
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Panos Ghekas
2011-04-16 23:28:52 UTC
Permalink
Hi Erik !

Expert no. Passionate about quality sound, Yes.

EWQL Symphonic orchestra is the best reproduction of the real thing there is today.
Hollywood oriented, and VERY commercial (and expencive of course).
Keep in mind that after 2005 all hollywood movies are made with this (and the choirs)
They recorded every instrument of the Hollywood orchestra with every detail and the Play version has round robins , convolution reverb included, EQ multi channell assignment and audio. List go on.
Sound..... better than Miroslav.

I was lucky back in December 2009 when they introduced a survey with lots of (very personal....) questions and the reward was a Free version or this orchestra in both 32 & 64 bits !!!!!
It took me an hour to answer all those questions but when competed they took me to a special "place" where they gave me the lisence to compose and publish music with this orchestra and anyway use it as I wish. Then to download page where I was downloadong for two days. Both versions, as my Sibelius 6 works with 32bit apps only. I also took a special file for EWQL to work with Sibelius in special scores etc.
There's a forum also. I post very rarely....

Symphonic choirs is something else. There's a word builder where you just type the words and the choir sings them exactly. Miracles....
This took me 3days and 19hours to get (40GB....). a rival is Requiem Choirs from Tonehammer... you must listen some demos from both....

Independence.
German technology from Yellow tools. These guys are more generous as a very commerial group also. They have the Free version with a large library. Need some hours to download from a special user page very private and useful.
Included in this free library are some combinations from Notre Dam of Budapest Organ.
I'm not into commercial stuff but I finally got their Basic library for latest pro 3 version for just 40euros. It's worth.
As a sampler Independence is power. Mapping, on board convolution reverbs, effects studio mixer everything.......
Also has a very conveniant and useful Live version, for...... live situations. Great.

Engine.
This little gem is free... (!), can work with jOrgan and you can get it from either Yellow Tools or Sounds on Demand. They offer some free libraries (demos) for her , usualy you can find many interesting sounds, mostly for sountrack use.
Like Indepencence, comes with studio mixer, convolution, effects, opens VST and VSTi s as a host, and the feature we can use as jOrgan users is that it can load wav and/or aiff files, midi files, mp3 ect in a special mapping page. The limit is 25 audio files but I managed to make a full principal 8' rank using two modules (instead of one, as in LS) with 25 files each (C1 to B2 and C3 to C5). the sound is...... pro (and free...).

If you get Engine from Sounds on Demand you'll subscribe to a news letter where they inform you about new (and very commercial....) stuff , but always they give some free versions of them to play with and by the time you can mass a quite interesting personal library. Usually they offer Hip Hop, drums, grooves ect but there are some BEAUTIFUL sountrack type collections (from demo versions) worth having if one likes the kind (as I).

Pheww was long. I'm not related to any of them, I just get excited with extra HQ sound machines - instruments of the modern age. I cannot see my music life without my hard won EWQL symphonic orchestra and the Independence Grand Piano (possibly a Bachstein... sounds like one...) and Spanish guitar. The 11 lyric first violins is something you don't wanna miss....

Now, to conclude, imagine all those powers being controlled from jOrgan x64 and their sound outputs from Jack (x64now)......
Oh, I feel soooo lucky  I lived till now to feel these 21st century miracles.....

Ask more if you like, we're OT declared, so
best
Panos

--- Óôéò ÓÜâ., 16/04/11, ï/ç Erik De Schrijver <***@skynet.be> Ýãñáøå:





Hello Panos,



You are the expert, so i believe it if you refer to those 3 products.



I am not familiar with them. Should i look closer into them?

What am i missing?



All the best.



Erik.
Erik De Schrijver
2011-04-16 23:45:26 UTC
Permalink
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
Thank you Panos for this very interesting info.<br>
I shall start learning more (as soon as time permits).<br>
If i have questions (very likely), i shall send mail privately.<br>
<br>
Enjoy all those wonders!<br>
<br>
All the best.<br>
<br>
Erik.<br>
---------------------------------<br>
<br>
Panos Ghekas wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:***@web29118.mail.ird.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; -x-system-font: none;"
valign="top"><font size="3"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">Hi
Erik !</span><br style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<br style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">Expert no. Passionate
about quality sound, Yes.</span><br style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<br style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">EWQL Symphonic
orchestra is the best reproduction of the real thing there is today.</span><br
style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">Hollywood oriented,
and VERY commercial (and expencive of course).</span><br
style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">Keep in mind that
after 2005 all hollywood movies are made with this (and the choirs)</span><br
style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">They recorded every
instrument of the Hollywood orchestra with every detail and the Play
version has round robins , convolution reverb included, EQ multi
channell assignment and audio. List go on. <br>
Sound..... better than Miroslav.</span><br
style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;"><br>
I was lucky back in December 2009 when they introduced a survey with
lots of (very personal....) questions and the reward was a Free version
or this orchestra in both 32 &amp; 64 bits !!!!! <br>
It took me an hour to answer all those questions but when competed they
took me to a special "place" where they gave me the <span
style="text-decoration: underline;">lisence</span> to compose and
publish music with this orchestra and anyway use it as I wish. Then to
download page where I was downloadong for two days. Both versions, as
my Sibelius 6 works with 32bit apps only. I also took a special file
for EWQL to work with Sibelius in special scores etc.</span><br
style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">There's a forum also.
I post very rarely....</span><br style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;"><br>
Symphonic choirs is something else. There's a word builder where you
just type the words and the choir sings them exactly. Miracles.... <br>
This took me 3days and 19hours to get (40GB....). a rival is Requiem
Choirs from Tonehammer... you must listen some demos from both....</span><br
style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<br style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">Independence. <br>
German technology from Yellow tools. These guys are more generous as a
very commerial group also. They have the Free version with a large
library. Need some hours to download from a special user page very
private and useful.</span><br style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">Included in this free
library are some combinations from Notre Dam of Budapest Organ.</span><br
style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">I'm not into
commercial stuff but I finally got their Basic library for latest pro 3
version for just 40euros. It's worth. <br>
As a sampler Independence is power. Mapping, on board convolution
reverbs, effects studio mixer everything.......</span><br
style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">Also has a very
conveniant and useful Live version, for...... live situations. Great.</span><br
style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<br style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">Engine. <br>
This little gem is free... (!), can work with jOrgan and you can get it
from either Yellow Tools or Sounds on Demand. They offer some free
libraries (demos) for her , usualy you can find many interesting
sounds, mostly for sountrack use.</span><br
style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">Like Indepencence,
comes with studio mixer, convolution, effects, opens VST and VSTi s as
a host, and the feature we can use as jOrgan users is that it can load
wav and/or aiff files, midi files, mp3 ect in a special mapping page.
The limit is 25 audio files but I managed to make a full principal 8'
rank using two modules (instead of one, as in LS) with 25 files each
(C1 to B2 and C3 to C5). the sound is...... pro (and free...).</span><br
style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;"><br>
If you get Engine from Sounds on Demand you'll subscribe to a news
letter where they inform you about new (and very commercial....) stuff
, but always they give some free versions of them to play with and by
the time you can mass a quite interesting personal library. Usually
they offer Hip Hop, drums, grooves ect but there are some BEAUTIFUL
sountrack type collections (from demo versions) worth having if one
likes the kind (as I).</span><br style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<br style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">Pheww was long. I'm
not related to any of them, I just get excited with extra HQ sound
machines - instruments of the modern age. I cannot see my music life
without my hard won EWQL symphonic orchestra and the Independence Grand
Piano (possibly a Bachstein... sounds like one...) and Spanish guitar.
The 11 lyric first violins is something you don't wanna miss....</span><br
style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<br style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">Now, to conclude, <span
style="font-weight: bold;">imagine all those powers being controlled
from jOrgan x64 and their sound outputs from Jack (x64now)</span>......
<br>
Oh, I feel soooo lucky  I lived till now to feel these 21st century
miracles.....</span><br style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<br style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">Ask more if you like,
we're OT declared, so</span><br style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">best</span><br
style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<span style="font-family: comic sans ms;">Panos</span></font><br
style="font-family: comic sans ms;">
<br>
--- Στις <b>Σάβ., 16/04/11, ο/η Erik De Schrijver <i><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:***@skynet.be">&lt;***@skynet.be&gt;</a></i></b>
έγραψε:<br>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">
<div id="yiv1862475326"> Hello Panos,<br>
<br>
You are the expert, so i believe it if you refer to those 3 products.<br>
<br>
I am not familiar with them. Should i look closer into them?<br>
What am i missing?<br>
<br>
All the best.<br>
<br>
Erik. <br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="plainMail">_______________________________________________<br>
jOrgan-user mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net"
href="/mc/compose?to=jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net">jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user"
target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev">http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev</a></pre>
<pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net">jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
Panos Ghekas
2011-04-16 23:55:02 UTC
Permalink
You're welcome dear Erik,

I'm glad I started a little fire about....
And to push things a bit more , imagine a good organ model to play along with the orchestra......

Good hunting,
if you need some links (I have to dig a bit into my system...) tell me so

Panos

--- Óôéò ÓÜâ., 16/04/11, ï/ç Erik De Schrijver <***@skynet.be> Ýãñáøå:





Thank you Panos for this very interesting info.

I shall start learning more (as soon as time permits).

If i have questions (very likely), i shall send mail privately.



Enjoy all those wonders!



All the best.



Erik.

---------------------------------
Roy Radford
2011-04-17 10:08:22 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Jonathan,

                     The issues are largely "Past tense" for me since I moved to mainly hardware solutions, i.e. the Edirol modules but two issues have concerned me:

a) I used to use a Soundblaster Live! 24 External USB as the soundfont synth. It wasn't recognised by the version of Ubuntu, probably 7.n, I was using. Internal Soundblaster cards were recognised and worked as soundcards, but there didn't seem to be any way to load soundfonts into them.

b) M-Audio 1010lt cards worked OK as outputs but I could never get the inputs to work, so I couldn't used a dedicated computer for sound effects as I do in Windows.

    As I said, most of this is
history now for me, and Ubuntu keep improving the driver situation, so it may be resolved by now for all I know.

      Have fun,

          Roy.

--- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jonathan Aquilina <***@gmail.com>
Subject: [jOrgan-user] ubuntu driver issues
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 10:07

Roy what driver issues are you experiencing on ubuntu? I am having
issues finding my keyboard drivers for linux :( i wonder if m-audio has
the specs somewhere to where i can code my own linux drivers.
Roy Radford
2011-04-17 10:23:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Graham,

                   It certainly does, thanks for explaining it.

   I THOUGHT my main, "Playable" organ was fixed since I have the Edirol units and don't specialise in pipe organ simulation... Don't need any of this software synth or sf2 stuff...

   ...Then I tried Rick's latest Christie offering...

    ...Oh well... (Sigh)... Back in the melting pot!   

     Have fun,

        Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, Graham Goode <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Graham Goode <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 11:05

Hi John, Lynn, Roy, and all following this thread.

The Creative Soundfont player is a piece of logic (software) that
inhabits a memory chip on the Creative Card. It loads the wave files
and the sf2 management information into the memory on the soundcard
(this is true of the early models, I think later ones could have
access to your user RAM) and then outputs the sounds directly to the
audio chip on the Creative Card. Fluidsynth is a piece of logic
(software) that inhabits the computer's memory and uses the computers
CPU to load the SF2 management information and produce the sounds,
reverbs, chorus effects, etc. The Creative SF2 player only has access
to the processing power of the 'on-the-card' chip. Fluidsynth has
access to the processing power of your whole computer.

The greater polyphony from fluidsynth is a direct result of this
access to greater processing power.

Hope that makes sense :)
  Are the greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth as
compared
with Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the soundfont?
Kind regards,
GrahamG
Panos Ghekas
2011-04-17 12:03:08 UTC
Permalink
Bernd, Erik,
Agreed 100% too. Couny me in.
bestPanos

--- Óôéò Êõñ., 17/04/11, ï/ç Erik De Schrijver <***@skynet.be> Ýãñáøå:

Áðü: Erik De Schrijver <***@skynet.be>
ÈÝìá: Re: [jOrgan-user] portaudio further testing
Ðñïò: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Çìåñïìçíßá: ÊõñéáêÞ, 17 Áðñßëéïò 2011, 9:49

100% in agreement.

I try to contribute a little bit by testing Windows as well as Linux (on
Ubuntu and Puppy) versions and all work very nicely here.
I have no Mac, so this version is beyond my scope.

All the best.

Erik.
---------------------------------
Post by BCA
Gentlemen,
we would really open the minds if we once could suppress any polarizing into
an EITHER Linux OR Windows direction. jOrgan is already an universal tool,
with nearly unlimited offerings for ANY approach - it doesn't judge any OS
as "better" or "bader", it doesn't compare, it doesn't compete, and we
should open our consciousness, too.
Such a point of view does heal other things, too.
My opinion.
Regards
Bernd.
--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/portaudio-further-testing-tp3454305p3455152.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
   
Roy Radford
2011-04-17 12:36:08 UTC
Permalink
Hi, John,

              I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Virtual processing" here. If you mean handing a large chunk of the synth chore back to the computer processor surely you're more or less back to Fluidsynth???

      Have fun,

          Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:

From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 12:58

Graham,  thanks for that explanation of how Fluidsynth differs from Creative
in playback.  The AWE 64 soundcards had piggyback or daughterboard memory
modules from 4 to 24 Megabytes that were expensive add-ons to those
soundcards.  With the SB Live! Audigy and X-Fi soundcards, there is a
Soundfont Memory Cache feature in the Soundfont Bank Manager which is
user-settable and, in my case, having 4 gigabytes of physical memory, I
could allocate 2 gigabytes of that to soundfont cache, if desired.  I keep
it right around 100 Mb which accommodates a General Midi Bank and the organ
soundfonts I may use in jOrgan.  Like the difference between "physical
memory" and "virtual memory" in the Accessories>System Tools>System
Information in Windows, it would be nice if there were a "virtual
processing" capability with the Creative Labs cards so they could handle all
the polyphony demands that organs make on them.

John B.

-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Goode
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:05 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth

Hi John, Lynn, Roy, and all following this thread.

The Creative Soundfont player is a piece of logic (software) that
inhabits a memory chip on the Creative Card. It loads the wave files
and the sf2 management information into the memory on the soundcard
(this is true of the early models, I think later ones could have
access to your user RAM) and then outputs the sounds directly to the
audio chip on the Creative Card. Fluidsynth is a piece of logic
(software) that inhabits the computer's memory and uses the computers
CPU to load the SF2 management information and produce the sounds,
reverbs, chorus effects, etc. The Creative SF2 player only has access
to the processing power of the 'on-the-card' chip. Fluidsynth has
access to the processing power of your whole computer.

The greater polyphony from fluidsynth is a direct result of this
access to greater processing power.

Hope that makes sense :)
  Are the greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth as
compared
with Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the soundfont?
Kind regards,
GrahamG

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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John Beach
2011-04-17 20:58:59 UTC
Permalink
That’s exactly what I meant, Roy. In Audigy 2 ZS-- there is a Creative SW (software) Synthesizer that is an assignable option to a midi output port
a.. Creative Software synthesizer – multi timbral wave-table (16 Channels)
b.. 2 MIDI I/O ports (2×16 channels) (gameport adapter required for MIDI I/O 2)

I have used it with my music sequencer program. Does a nice job. So you would think, wouldn’t you, that they would make that a competitive option in the soundcards that they have produced since Audigy?
They really need to overcome the polyphony limitation since that is the only thing that really keeps Creative Sound from being the best sound for organ voices that is currently available in PC soundcards.

John






From: Roy Radford
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 8:36 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth

Hi, John,

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Virtual processing" here. If you mean handing a large chunk of the synth chore back to the computer processor surely you're more or less back to Fluidsynth???

Have fun,

Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 12:58


Graham, thanks for that explanation of how Fluidsynth differs from Creative
in playback. The AWE 64 soundcards had piggyback or daughterboard memory
modules from 4 to 24 Megabytes that were expensive add-ons to those
soundcards. With the SB Live! Audigy and X-Fi soundcards, there is a
Soundfont Memory Cache feature in the Soundfont Bank Manager which is
user-settable and, in my case, having 4 gigabytes of physical memory, I
could allocate 2 gigabytes of that to soundfont cache, if desired. I keep
it right around 100 Mb which accommodates a General Midi Bank and the organ
soundfonts I may use in jOrgan. Like the difference between "physical
memory" and "virtual memory" in the Accessories>System Tools>System
Information in Windows, it would be nice if there were a "virtual
processing" capability with the Creative Labs cards so they could handle all
the polyphony demands that organs make on them.

John B.

-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Goode
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:05 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth

Hi John, Lynn, Roy, and all following this thread.

The Creative Soundfont player is a piece of logic (software) that
inhabits a memory chip on the Creative Card. It loads the wave files
and the sf2 management information into the memory on the soundcard
(this is true of the early models, I think later ones could have
access to your user RAM) and then outputs the sounds directly to the
audio chip on the Creative Card. Fluidsynth is a piece of logic
(software) that inhabits the computer's memory and uses the computers
CPU to load the SF2 management information and produce the sounds,
reverbs, chorus effects, etc. The Creative SF2 player only has access
to the processing power of the 'on-the-card' chip. Fluidsynth has
access to the processing power of your whole computer.

The greater polyphony from fluidsynth is a direct result of this
access to greater processing power.

Hope that makes sense :)
Post by John Beach
Are the greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth as
compared
with Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the soundfont?
Kind regards,
GrahamG

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy Radford
2011-04-17 21:38:43 UTC
Permalink
Hi, John,

            So why would that be better than Fluidsynth if they both need computer resources? Are you saying that Creative simply did a better job of a software synth than Fluidsynth?

   I'm a bit confused about the MIDI outputs. Surely the OUTPUT of a synth is audio? Did you mean MIDI INPUTS?

   If so, can the synth still be driven internally via some sort of virtual MIDI cable... Something you could connect to jOrgan?


     Have fun,

        Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:

From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 21:58



That’s exactly what I meant, Roy.  In Audigy 2 ZS-- there is a
Creative SW (software) Synthesizer that  is an assignable option to a
midi  output port

Creative Software
synthesizer – multi timbral wave-table (16 Channels)
2 MIDI I/O ports (2×16
channels) (gameport adapter required for MIDI I/O 2)
 
I have used it with my music sequencer program.  Does
a nice job.  So you would think, wouldn’t you, that they would make that a
competitive option in the soundcards that they have produced since
Audigy?
They really need to overcome the polyphony limitation
since that is the only thing that really keeps Creative Sound from being the
best sound for organ voices that is currently available in PC
soundcards.
 
John
 
 
 
 
 
 



From: Roy Radford
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 8:36 AM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
 




Hi,
John,

             
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Virtual processing" here. If you mean
handing a large chunk of the synth chore back to the computer processor
surely you're more or less back to
Fluidsynth???

      Have
fun,

         
Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach
<***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From:
John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To:
jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011,
12:58


Graham,  thanks for that explanation of how
Fluidsynth differs from Creative
in playback.  The AWE 64
soundcards had piggyback or daughterboard memory
modules from 4 to
24 Megabytes that were expensive add-ons to those
soundcards. 
With the SB Live! Audigy and X-Fi soundcards, there is a
Soundfont
Memory Cache feature in the Soundfont Bank Manager which is

user-settable and, in my case, having 4 gigabytes of physical
memory, I
could allocate 2 gigabytes of that to soundfont cache, if
desired.  I keep
it right around 100 Mb which accommodates a
General Midi Bank and the organ
soundfonts I may use in
jOrgan.  Like the difference between "physical
memory" and
"virtual memory" in the Accessories>System Tools>System

Information in Windows, it would be nice if there were a "virtual

processing" capability with the Creative Labs cards so they could
handle all
the polyphony demands that organs make on
them.

John B.

-----Original Message-----
From: Graham
Goode
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:05 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject:
Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and

Fluidsynth

Hi John, Lynn, Roy, and all following this
thread.

The Creative Soundfont player is a piece of logic
(software) that
inhabits a memory chip on the Creative Card. It loads
the wave files
and the sf2 management information into the memory on
the soundcard
(this is true of the early models, I think later ones
could have
access to your user RAM) and then outputs the sounds
directly to the
audio chip on the Creative Card. Fluidsynth is a
piece of logic
(software) that inhabits the computer's memory and
uses the computers
CPU to load the SF2 management information and
produce the sounds,
reverbs, chorus effects, etc. The Creative SF2
player only has access
to the processing power of the 'on-the-card'
chip. Fluidsynth has
access to the processing power of your whole
computer.

The greater polyphony from fluidsynth is a direct
result of this
access to greater processing power.

Hope that
makes sense :)
  Are the greater polyphony
capabilities of Fluidsynth as
compared
with
Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the
soundfont?

Kind
regards,
GrahamG

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting
from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation --
Increasing the use of server virtualization is a
top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management,
and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn
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the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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Consolidation --
Increasing the use of server virtualization is a
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting
from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation --
Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization
can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability
and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server
virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev


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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
John Beach
2011-04-17 22:56:43 UTC
Permalink
No, Roy, in the Audigy 2 ZS there are hardware synths A and B as in other Creative Labs soundcards, but with the Audigy 2 ZS there is also a Creative Software Synthesizer as an additional output option in the output ports. I am not sure if there is any increased polyphony using the Creative Software Synthesizer vis-à-vis the two hardware Synths A or B. I am also not sure why, if there is no advantage except perhaps some production cost factor, Creative packaged a software synth as part of the Audigy 2 ZS firmware. I use the Audigy 2 ZS as the MIDI hardware interface for the X-Fi Xtreme Music soundcard I use with the midified Allen Organ, so I don’t actually use the Creative Sound output from the Audigy 2 ZS card, rather from the X-Fi. The newer soundcards do not have the MIDI/Gameport connector that older soundcards did and I have had trouble with a Yamaha USB Midi cable and driver, so I prefer to go with what I know and what works. I only use the Maple Virtual Midi Cable with jOrgan in conjunction with a music sequencer program that I use for Midi file playback or inputting to the jOrgan recorder application and customizing pre-existent midi files through jOrgan and its recorder.

John



From: Roy Radford
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 5:38 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth

Hi, John,

So why would that be better than Fluidsynth if they both need computer resources? Are you saying that Creative simply did a better job of a software synth than Fluidsynth?

I'm a bit confused about the MIDI outputs. Surely the OUTPUT of a synth is audio? Did you mean MIDI INPUTS?

If so, can the synth still be driven internally via some sort of virtual MIDI cable... Something you could connect to jOrgan?


Have fun,

Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 21:58


That’s exactly what I meant, Roy. In Audigy 2 ZS-- there is a Creative SW (software) Synthesizer that is an assignable option to a midi output port
a.. Creative Software synthesizer – multi timbral wave-table (16 Channels)
b.. 2 MIDI I/O ports (2×16 channels) (gameport adapter required for MIDI I/O 2)

I have used it with my music sequencer program. Does a nice job. So you would think, wouldn’t you, that they would make that a competitive option in the soundcards that they have produced since Audigy?
They really need to overcome the polyphony limitation since that is the only thing that really keeps Creative Sound from being the best sound for organ voices that is currently available in PC soundcards.

John






From: Roy Radford
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 8:36 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth

Hi, John,

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Virtual processing" here. If you mean handing a large chunk of the synth chore back to the computer processor surely you're more or less back to Fluidsynth???

Have fun,

Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 12:58


Graham, thanks for that explanation of how Fluidsynth differs from Creative
in playback. The AWE 64 soundcards had piggyback or daughterboard memory
modules from 4 to 24 Megabytes that were expensive add-ons to those
soundcards. With the SB Live! Audigy and X-Fi soundcards, there is a
Soundfont Memory Cache feature in the Soundfont Bank Manager which is
user-settable and, in my case, having 4 gigabytes of physical memory, I
could allocate 2 gigabytes of that to soundfont cache, if desired. I keep
it right around 100 Mb which accommodates a General Midi Bank and the organ
soundfonts I may use in jOrgan. Like the difference between "physical
memory" and "virtual memory" in the Accessories>System Tools>System
Information in Windows, it would be nice if there were a "virtual
processing" capability with the Creative Labs cards so they could handle all
the polyphony demands that organs make on them.

John B.

-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Goode
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:05 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth

Hi John, Lynn, Roy, and all following this thread.

The Creative Soundfont player is a piece of logic (software) that
inhabits a memory chip on the Creative Card. It loads the wave files
and the sf2 management information into the memory on the soundcard
(this is true of the early models, I think later ones could have
access to your user RAM) and then outputs the sounds directly to the
audio chip on the Creative Card. Fluidsynth is a piece of logic
(software) that inhabits the computer's memory and uses the computers
CPU to load the SF2 management information and produce the sounds,
reverbs, chorus effects, etc. The Creative SF2 player only has access
to the processing power of the 'on-the-card' chip. Fluidsynth has
access to the processing power of your whole computer.

The greater polyphony from fluidsynth is a direct result of this
access to greater processing power.

Hope that makes sense :)
Post by John Beach
Are the greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth as
compared
with Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the soundfont?
Kind regards,
GrahamG

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy Radford
2011-04-17 23:01:19 UTC
Permalink
   Hi, John,

                 So is any of this using computer memory or CPU power?

    Have fun,

       Roy.

 

--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:

From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 23:56



No, Roy, in the Audigy 2 ZS there are hardware synths A and B as in other
Creative Labs soundcards, but with the Audigy 2 ZS there is also a Creative
Software Synthesizer as an additional output option in the output
ports.   I am not sure if there is any increased polyphony using the
Creative Software Synthesizer vis-à-vis the two hardware Synths A or B.  I
am also not sure why, if there is no advantage except perhaps some production
cost factor, Creative packaged a software synth as part of the Audigy 2 ZS
firmware.   I use the Audigy 2 ZS as the MIDI hardware interface for
the X-Fi Xtreme Music soundcard I use with the midified Allen Organ, so I don’t
actually use the Creative Sound output from the Audigy 2 ZS card, rather from
the X-Fi.   The newer soundcards do not have the MIDI/Gameport
connector that older soundcards did and I have had trouble with a Yamaha USB
Midi cable and driver, so I prefer to go with what I know and what
works.    I only use the Maple Virtual Midi Cable with jOrgan in
conjunction with a music sequencer program that I use for Midi file playback or
inputting to the jOrgan recorder application and customizing pre-existent midi
files through jOrgan and its recorder.
 
John
 
 


 

From: Roy Radford
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 5:38 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
 




Hi,
John,

           
So why would that be better than Fluidsynth if they both need computer
resources? Are you saying that Creative simply did a better job of a
software synth than Fluidsynth?

   I'm a bit confused
about the MIDI outputs. Surely the OUTPUT of a synth is audio? Did you
mean MIDI INPUTS?

   If so, can the synth still be driven
internally via some sort of virtual MIDI cable... Something you could
connect to jOrgan?


     Have
fun,

        Roy.


---
On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
wrote:


From:
John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To:
jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011,
21:58





That’s exactly what I meant, Roy.  In Audigy 2 ZS-- there is a
Creative SW (software) Synthesizer that  is an assignable option to
a midi  output port

Creative Software
synthesizer – multi timbral wave-table (16 Channels)
2 MIDI I/O ports
(2×16 channels) (gameport adapter required for MIDI I/O
2)
 
I have used it with my music sequencer
program.  Does a nice job.  So you would think, wouldn’t you,
that they would make that a competitive option in the soundcards that
they have produced since Audigy?
They really need to overcome the polyphony
limitation since that is the only thing that really keeps Creative Sound
from being the best sound for organ voices that is currently available
in PC soundcards.
 
John
 
 
 
 
 
 



From: Roy Radford

Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 8:36 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont
Files and Fluidsynth
 




Hi,
John,

             
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Virtual processing" here. If
you mean handing a large chunk of the synth chore back to the
computer processor surely you're more or less back to
Fluidsynth???

      Have
fun,

         
Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach
<***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From:
John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date:
Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 12:58


Graham,  thanks for that
explanation of how Fluidsynth differs from Creative
in
playback.  The AWE 64 soundcards had piggyback or
daughterboard memory
modules from 4 to 24 Megabytes that
were expensive add-ons to those
soundcards.  With the
SB Live! Audigy and X-Fi soundcards, there is a
Soundfont
Memory Cache feature in the Soundfont Bank Manager which is

user-settable and, in my case, having 4 gigabytes of
physical memory, I
could allocate 2 gigabytes of that to
soundfont cache, if desired.  I keep
it right around
100 Mb which accommodates a General Midi Bank and the organ

soundfonts I may use in jOrgan.  Like the difference
between "physical
memory" and "virtual memory" in the
Accessories>System Tools>System
Information in
Windows, it would be nice if there were a "virtual

processing" capability with the Creative Labs cards so they
could handle all
the polyphony demands that organs make on
them.

John B.

-----Original Message-----
From:
Graham Goode
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:05 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject:
Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and

Fluidsynth

Hi John, Lynn, Roy, and all following this
thread.

The Creative Soundfont player is a piece of logic
(software) that
inhabits a memory chip on the Creative Card.
It loads the wave files
and the sf2 management information
into the memory on the soundcard
(this is true of the early
models, I think later ones could have
access to your user
RAM) and then outputs the sounds directly to the
audio chip
on the Creative Card. Fluidsynth is a piece of
logic
(software) that inhabits the computer's memory and uses
the computers
CPU to load the SF2 management information and
produce the sounds,
reverbs, chorus effects, etc. The
Creative SF2 player only has access
to the processing power
of the 'on-the-card' chip. Fluidsynth has
access to the
processing power of your whole computer.

The greater
polyphony from fluidsynth is a direct result of this
access
to greater processing power.

Hope that makes sense
:)
  Are the greater polyphony capabilities
of Fluidsynth as
compared
with Creative
Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the
soundfont?

Kind
regards,
GrahamG

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting
from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial
Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server
virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce
costs, simplify management, and improve
application
availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting
from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload

Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization
is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify
management, and improve
application availability and
disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of
server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting
from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation --
Increasing the use of server virtualization is a
top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management,
and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn
more about boosting
the value of server virtualization.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev

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list
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-----Inline
Attachment Follows-----


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting
from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation --
Increasing the use of server virtualization is a
top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management,
and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn
more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
-----Inline
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting
from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation --
Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization
can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability
and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server
virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev


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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
John Beach
2011-04-18 00:02:26 UTC
Permalink
Yes, but as Graham G explained in an earlier post today, Fluidsynth, as a software synthesizer, uses CPU power for everything, so I got the impression from his explanation that the computer resources used for software synthesizer sound processing are greater than those used by Creative Sound since the soundfonts are loaded into RAM with the Creative Sound and the soundcard chip is doing the processing whereas, with Fluidsynth, it is all being done by the CPU. But there is the advantage with Fluidsynth of the increased polyphony. That seems to be an issue for us jOrgan users.

John

From: Roy Radford
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:01 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth

Hi, John,

So is any of this using computer memory or CPU power?

Have fun,

Roy.



--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 23:56


No, Roy, in the Audigy 2 ZS there are hardware synths A and B as in other Creative Labs soundcards, but with the Audigy 2 ZS there is also a Creative Software Synthesizer as an additional output option in the output ports. I am not sure if there is any increased polyphony using the Creative Software Synthesizer vis-à-vis the two hardware Synths A or B. I am also not sure why, if there is no advantage except perhaps some production cost factor, Creative packaged a software synth as part of the Audigy 2 ZS firmware. I use the Audigy 2 ZS as the MIDI hardware interface for the X-Fi Xtreme Music soundcard I use with the midified Allen Organ, so I don’t actually use the Creative Sound output from the Audigy 2 ZS card, rather from the X-Fi. The newer soundcards do not have the MIDI/Gameport connector that older soundcards did and I have had trouble with a Yamaha USB Midi cable and driver, so I prefer to go with what I know and what works. I only use the Maple Virtual Midi Cable with jOrgan in conjunction with a music sequencer program that I use for Midi file playback or inputting to the jOrgan recorder application and customizing pre-existent midi files through jOrgan and its recorder.

John



From: Roy Radford
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 5:38 PM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth

Hi, John,

So why would that be better than Fluidsynth if they both need computer resources? Are you saying that Creative simply did a better job of a software synth than Fluidsynth?

I'm a bit confused about the MIDI outputs. Surely the OUTPUT of a synth is audio? Did you mean MIDI INPUTS?

If so, can the synth still be driven internally via some sort of virtual MIDI cable... Something you could connect to jOrgan?


Have fun,

Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 21:58


That’s exactly what I meant, Roy. In Audigy 2 ZS-- there is a Creative SW (software) Synthesizer that is an assignable option to a midi output port
a.. Creative Software synthesizer – multi timbral wave-table (16 Channels)
b.. 2 MIDI I/O ports (2×16 channels) (gameport adapter required for MIDI I/O 2)

I have used it with my music sequencer program. Does a nice job. So you would think, wouldn’t you, that they would make that a competitive option in the soundcards that they have produced since Audigy?
They really need to overcome the polyphony limitation since that is the only thing that really keeps Creative Sound from being the best sound for organ voices that is currently available in PC soundcards.

John






From: Roy Radford
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 8:36 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth

Hi, John,

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Virtual processing" here. If you mean handing a large chunk of the synth chore back to the computer processor surely you're more or less back to Fluidsynth???

Have fun,

Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 12:58


Graham, thanks for that explanation of how Fluidsynth differs from Creative
in playback. The AWE 64 soundcards had piggyback or daughterboard memory
modules from 4 to 24 Megabytes that were expensive add-ons to those
soundcards. With the SB Live! Audigy and X-Fi soundcards, there is a
Soundfont Memory Cache feature in the Soundfont Bank Manager which is
user-settable and, in my case, having 4 gigabytes of physical memory, I
could allocate 2 gigabytes of that to soundfont cache, if desired. I keep
it right around 100 Mb which accommodates a General Midi Bank and the organ
soundfonts I may use in jOrgan. Like the difference between "physical
memory" and "virtual memory" in the Accessories>System Tools>System
Information in Windows, it would be nice if there were a "virtual
processing" capability with the Creative Labs cards so they could handle all
the polyphony demands that organs make on them.

John B.

-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Goode
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:05 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth

Hi John, Lynn, Roy, and all following this thread.

The Creative Soundfont player is a piece of logic (software) that
inhabits a memory chip on the Creative Card. It loads the wave files
and the sf2 management information into the memory on the soundcard
(this is true of the early models, I think later ones could have
access to your user RAM) and then outputs the sounds directly to the
audio chip on the Creative Card. Fluidsynth is a piece of logic
(software) that inhabits the computer's memory and uses the computers
CPU to load the SF2 management information and produce the sounds,
reverbs, chorus effects, etc. The Creative SF2 player only has access
to the processing power of the 'on-the-card' chip. Fluidsynth has
access to the processing power of your whole computer.

The greater polyphony from fluidsynth is a direct result of this
access to greater processing power.

Hope that makes sense :)
Post by John Beach
Are the greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth as
compared
with Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the soundfont?
Kind regards,
GrahamG

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Roy Radford
2011-04-18 00:14:34 UTC
Permalink
    ...Funny how Synth Utopia always seems to be so near yet so far!


         Have fun,

            Roy.


--- On Mon, 18/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:

From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 1:02



Yes, but as Graham G explained in an earlier post today, Fluidsynth, as a
software synthesizer, uses CPU power for everything, so I got the impression
from his explanation that the computer resources used for software synthesizer
sound processing are greater than those used by Creative Sound since the
soundfonts are loaded into RAM with the Creative Sound and the soundcard chip is
doing the processing whereas, with Fluidsynth, it is all being done by the
CPU.   But there is the advantage with Fluidsynth of the increased
polyphony.  That seems to be an issue for us jOrgan users.
 
John


 

From: Roy Radford
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:01 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
 




   Hi,
John,

                
So is any of this using computer memory or CPU
power?

    Have
fun,

      
Roy.

 

--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach
<***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From:
John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To:
jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011,
23:56





No, Roy, in the Audigy 2 ZS there are hardware synths A and B as in
other Creative Labs soundcards, but with the Audigy 2 ZS there is also a
Creative Software Synthesizer as an additional output option in the
output ports.   I am not sure if there is any increased
polyphony using the Creative Software Synthesizer vis-à-vis the two
hardware Synths A or B.  I am also not sure why, if there is no
advantage except perhaps some production cost factor, Creative packaged
a software synth as part of the Audigy 2 ZS firmware.   I use
the Audigy 2 ZS as the MIDI hardware interface for the X-Fi Xtreme Music
soundcard I use with the midified Allen Organ, so I don’t actually use
the Creative Sound output from the Audigy 2 ZS card, rather from the
X-Fi.   The newer soundcards do not have the MIDI/Gameport
connector that older soundcards did and I have had trouble with a Yamaha
USB Midi cable and driver, so I prefer to go with what I know and what
works.    I only use the Maple Virtual Midi Cable with
jOrgan in conjunction with a music sequencer program that I use for Midi
file playback or inputting to the jOrgan recorder application and
customizing pre-existent midi files through jOrgan and its
recorder.
 
John
 
 


 

From: Roy Radford

Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 5:38 PM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont
Files and Fluidsynth
 




Hi,
John,

           
So why would that be better than Fluidsynth if they both need
computer resources? Are you saying that Creative simply did a
better job of a software synth than
Fluidsynth?

   I'm a bit confused about the MIDI
outputs. Surely the OUTPUT of a synth is audio? Did you mean MIDI
INPUTS?

   If so, can the synth still be driven
internally via some sort of virtual MIDI cable... Something you
could connect to jOrgan?


     Have
fun,

       
Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach
<***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From:
John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date:
Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 21:58





That’s exactly what I meant, Roy.  In Audigy 2 ZS--
there is a Creative SW (software) Synthesizer that  is an
assignable option to a midi  output port

Creative
Software synthesizer – multi timbral wave-table (16
Channels)
2 MIDI I/O
ports (2×16 channels) (gameport adapter required for MIDI I/O
2)
 
I have used it with my music sequencer
program.  Does a nice job.  So you would think,
wouldn’t you, that they would make that a competitive option in
the soundcards that they have produced since
Audigy?
They really need to overcome the polyphony
limitation since that is the only thing that really keeps
Creative Sound from being the best sound for organ voices that
is currently available in PC soundcards.
 
John
 
 
 
 
 
 



From: Roy Radford
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 8:36 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple
Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
 




Hi,
John,

             
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Virtual processing"
here. If you mean handing a large chunk of the synth chore
back to the computer processor surely you're more or less
back to
Fluidsynth???

      Have
fun,

         
Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach
<***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From:
John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject:
Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files
and Fluidsynth
To:
jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17
April, 2011, 12:58


Graham,  thanks
for that explanation of how Fluidsynth differs from
Creative
in playback.  The AWE 64 soundcards
had piggyback or daughterboard memory
modules from 4
to 24 Megabytes that were expensive add-ons to those

soundcards.  With the SB Live! Audigy and X-Fi
soundcards, there is a
Soundfont Memory Cache
feature in the Soundfont Bank Manager which is

user-settable and, in my case, having 4 gigabytes of
physical memory, I
could allocate 2 gigabytes of
that to soundfont cache, if desired.  I keep
it
right around 100 Mb which accommodates a General Midi
Bank and the organ
soundfonts I may use in
jOrgan.  Like the difference between "physical

memory" and "virtual memory" in the
Accessories>System Tools>System
Information in
Windows, it would be nice if there were a "virtual

processing" capability with the Creative Labs cards
so they could handle all
the polyphony demands that
organs make on them.

John B.

-----Original
Message-----
From: Graham Goode
Sent: Sunday,
April 17, 2011 6:05 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject:
Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files
and
Fluidsynth

Hi John, Lynn, Roy, and all
following this thread.

The Creative Soundfont
player is a piece of logic (software) that
inhabits a
memory chip on the Creative Card. It loads the wave
files
and the sf2 management information into the
memory on the soundcard
(this is true of the early
models, I think later ones could have
access to your
user RAM) and then outputs the sounds directly to
the
audio chip on the Creative Card. Fluidsynth is a
piece of logic
(software) that inhabits the
computer's memory and uses the computers
CPU to load
the SF2 management information and produce the
sounds,
reverbs, chorus effects, etc. The Creative
SF2 player only has access
to the processing power of
the 'on-the-card' chip. Fluidsynth has
access to the
processing power of your whole computer.

The
greater polyphony from fluidsynth is a direct result of
this
access to greater processing power.

Hope
that makes sense :)
  Are the
greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth
as
compared
with Creative Sound
due to the way Fluidsynth handles the
soundfont?

Kind
regards,
GrahamG

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orgel jeux
2011-04-18 09:55:07 UTC
Permalink
John, Roy,

I must admit ,that, while I have been using 3 SB cards in my PC all
together, i merely use their - for those times very advanced -
soundfont-playing capacities anymore.

Simply because since we have FS, there are so many good dispositions created
for them, that i do not need that anymore.

Although its sounds were indeed ok, the only nuisance was, that i often had
to load all different synths and banks with the proper soundfonts at
start-up.
But perhaps there is a solution nowadays for that??

Well, the Audigy 2 ZS that's still sitting in my modern PC performs quite
well used as a audio interface, even under WIN7-64 bit/s, albeit that the
EAX implementation is not quite as good as it was under XP

As not everybody has the SB cards, and later devices no longer had the
harwdare synths onboard, I think it is a dead route to stick to these.

Roy, what a surprise that you are going to try the software route playing
Rick's Christie.... I am anxious to hear how it sounds at your setup!!

Greetings,

Geert
Post by Roy Radford
...Funny how Synth Utopia always seems to be so near yet so far!
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 1:02
Yes, but as Graham G explained in an earlier post today, Fluidsynth, as a
software synthesizer, uses CPU power for everything, so I got the impression
from his explanation that the computer resources used for software
synthesizer sound processing are greater than those used by Creative Sound
since the soundfonts are loaded into RAM with the Creative Sound and the
soundcard chip is doing the processing whereas, with Fluidsynth, it is all
being done by the CPU. But there is the advantage with Fluidsynth of the
increased polyphony. That seems to be an issue for us jOrgan users.
John
*Sent:* Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:01 PM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
Hi, John,
So is any of this using computer memory or CPU power?
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 23:56
No, Roy, in the Audigy 2 ZS there are hardware synths A and B as in
other Creative Labs soundcards, but with the Audigy 2 ZS there is also a
Creative Software Synthesizer as an additional output option in the output
ports. I am not sure if there is any increased polyphony using the
Creative Software Synthesizer vis-à-vis the two hardware Synths A or B. I
am also not sure why, if there is no advantage except perhaps some
production cost factor, Creative packaged a software synth as part of the
Audigy 2 ZS firmware. I use the Audigy 2 ZS as the MIDI hardware interface
for the X-Fi Xtreme Music soundcard I use with the midified Allen Organ, so
I don’t actually use the Creative Sound output from the Audigy 2 ZS card,
rather from the X-Fi. The newer soundcards do not have the MIDI/Gameport
connector that older soundcards did and I have had trouble with a Yamaha USB
Midi cable and driver, so I prefer to go with what I know and what works.
I only use the Maple Virtual Midi Cable with jOrgan in conjunction with a
music sequencer program that I use for Midi file playback or inputting to
the jOrgan recorder application and customizing pre-existent midi files
through jOrgan and its recorder.
John
*From:* Roy Radford
*Sent:* Sunday, April 17, 2011 5:38 PM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
Hi, John,
So why would that be better than Fluidsynth if they both need
computer resources? Are you saying that Creative simply did a better job of
a software synth than Fluidsynth?
I'm a bit confused about the MIDI outputs. Surely the OUTPUT of a synth
is audio? Did you mean MIDI INPUTS?
If so, can the synth still be driven internally via some sort of virtual
MIDI cable... Something you could connect to jOrgan?
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 21:58
That’s exactly what I meant, Roy. In Audigy 2 ZS-- there is a Creative
SW (software) Synthesizer that is an assignable option to a midi output
port
- Creative Software synthesizer – multi timbral wave-table (16
Channels)
- 2 MIDI I/O ports (2×16 channels) (gameport adapter required for MIDI
I/O 2)
I have used it with my music sequencer program. Does a nice job. So you
would think, wouldn’t you, that they would make that a competitive option in
the soundcards that they have produced since Audigy?
They really need to overcome the polyphony limitation since that is the
only thing that really keeps Creative Sound from being the best sound for
organ voices that is currently available in PC soundcards.
John
*From:* Roy Radford
*Sent:* Sunday, April 17, 2011 8:36 AM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
Hi, John,
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Virtual processing"
here. If you mean handing a large chunk of the synth chore back to the
computer processor surely you're more or less back to Fluidsynth???
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 12:58
Graham, thanks for that explanation of how Fluidsynth differs from Creative
in playback. The AWE 64 soundcards had piggyback or daughterboard memory
modules from 4 to 24 Megabytes that were expensive add-ons to those
soundcards. With the SB Live! Audigy and X-Fi soundcards, there is a
Soundfont Memory Cache feature in the Soundfont Bank Manager which is
user-settable and, in my case, having 4 gigabytes of physical memory, I
could allocate 2 gigabytes of that to soundfont cache, if desired. I keep
it right around 100 Mb which accommodates a General Midi Bank and the organ
soundfonts I may use in jOrgan. Like the difference between "physical
memory" and "virtual memory" in the Accessories>System Tools>System
Information in Windows, it would be nice if there were a "virtual
processing" capability with the Creative Labs cards so they could handle all
the polyphony demands that organs make on them.
John B.
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Goode
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
Hi John, Lynn, Roy, and all following this thread.
The Creative Soundfont player is a piece of logic (software) that
inhabits a memory chip on the Creative Card. It loads the wave files
and the sf2 management information into the memory on the soundcard
(this is true of the early models, I think later ones could have
access to your user RAM) and then outputs the sounds directly to the
audio chip on the Creative Card. Fluidsynth is a piece of logic
(software) that inhabits the computer's memory and uses the computers
CPU to load the SF2 management information and produce the sounds,
reverbs, chorus effects, etc. The Creative SF2 player only has access
to the processing power of the 'on-the-card' chip. Fluidsynth has
access to the processing power of your whole computer.
The greater polyphony from fluidsynth is a direct result of this
access to greater processing power.
Hope that makes sense :)
Post by John Beach
Are the greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth as
compared
with Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the soundfont?
Kind regards,
GrahamG
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Roy Radford
2011-04-18 10:25:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Geert,

              I think it may be some while before I get around to the Christie, I have two systems sharing one console. At the moment the garage looks like an old time manual telephone exchange only done with USB plugs instead of jacks!

    I've also acquired another couple of Edirol SD-20s from e-bay, so I'll have to re-arrange the dispo to suit. That should give me a total of 256 voices instead of the present 128, plus a few more routing options if I ever come by a Neo Instruments Ventilator, you don't necessarily want the whole orchestra given the Leslie wobble!

   128 voices sounds a lot but, with 4 instruments on each of 4 divisions and 7 footages available for each it's surprising how soon you can use them up.

       Have fun,

           Roy.


--- On Mon, 18/4/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 10:55

John, Roy,

I must admit ,that, while I have been using 3 SB cards in my PC all together, i merely use their - for those times very advanced - soundfont-playing capacities anymore.

Simply because since we have FS, there are so many good dispositions created for them, that i do not need that anymore.


Although its sounds were indeed ok, the only nuisance was, that i often had to load all different synths and banks with the proper soundfonts at start-up.
But perhaps there is a solution nowadays for that??


Well, the Audigy 2 ZS that's still sitting in my modern PC performs quite well  used as a audio interface, even under WIN7-64 bit/s, albeit that the EAX implementation is not quite as good as it was under XP

As not everybody has the SB cards, and later devices no longer had the harwdare synths onboard, I think it is a dead route to stick to these.


Roy, what a surprise that you are going to try the software route playing Rick's Christie.... I am anxious to hear how it sounds at your setup!!

Greetings,

Geert

2011/4/18 Roy Radford <***@yahoo.co.uk>


    ...Funny how Synth Utopia always seems to be so near yet so far!


         Have fun,

            Roy.


--- On Mon, 18/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 1:02




Yes, but as Graham G explained in an earlier post today, Fluidsynth, as a
software synthesizer, uses CPU power for everything, so I got the impression
from his explanation that the computer resources used for software synthesizer
sound processing are greater than those used by Creative Sound since the
soundfonts are loaded into RAM with the Creative Sound and the soundcard chip is
doing the processing whereas, with Fluidsynth, it is all being done by the
CPU.   But there is the advantage with Fluidsynth of the increased
polyphony.  That seems to be an issue for us jOrgan users.
 
John


 

From: Roy Radford
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:01 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
 




   Hi,
John,

                
So is any of this using computer memory or CPU
power?

    Have
fun,

      
Roy.

 

--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach
<***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From:
John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To:
jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011,
23:56





No, Roy, in the Audigy 2 ZS there are hardware synths A and B as in
other Creative Labs soundcards, but with the Audigy 2 ZS there is also a
Creative Software Synthesizer as an additional output option in the
output ports.   I am not sure if there is any increased
polyphony using the Creative Software Synthesizer vis-à-vis the two
hardware Synths A or B.  I am also not sure why, if there is no
advantage except perhaps some production cost factor, Creative packaged
a software synth as part of the Audigy 2 ZS firmware.   I use
the Audigy 2 ZS as the MIDI hardware interface for the X-Fi Xtreme Music
soundcard I use with the midified Allen Organ, so I don’t actually use
the Creative Sound output from the Audigy 2 ZS card, rather from the
X-Fi.   The newer soundcards do not have the MIDI/Gameport
connector that older soundcards did and I have had trouble with a Yamaha
USB Midi cable and driver, so I prefer to go with what I know and what
works.    I only use the Maple Virtual Midi Cable with
jOrgan in conjunction with a music sequencer program that I use for Midi
file playback or inputting to the jOrgan recorder application and
customizing pre-existent midi files through jOrgan and its
recorder.
 
John
 
 


 

From: Roy Radford

Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 5:38 PM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont
Files and Fluidsynth
 




Hi,
John,

           
So why would that be better than Fluidsynth if they both need
computer resources? Are you saying that Creative simply did a
better job of a software synth than
Fluidsynth?

   I'm a bit confused about the MIDI
outputs. Surely the OUTPUT of a synth is audio? Did you mean MIDI
INPUTS?

   If so, can the synth still be driven
internally via some sort of virtual MIDI cable... Something you
could connect to jOrgan?


     Have
fun,

       
Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach
<***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From:
John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date:
Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 21:58





That’s exactly what I meant, Roy.  In Audigy 2 ZS--
there is a Creative SW (software) Synthesizer that  is an
assignable option to a midi  output port

Creative
Software synthesizer – multi timbral wave-table (16
Channels)
2 MIDI I/O
ports (2×16 channels) (gameport adapter required for MIDI I/O
2)
 
I have used it with my music sequencer
program.  Does a nice job.  So you would think,
wouldn’t you, that they would make that a competitive option in
the soundcards that they have produced since
Audigy?
They really need to overcome the polyphony
limitation since that is the only thing that really keeps
Creative Sound from being the best sound for organ voices that
is currently available in PC soundcards.
 
John
 
 
 
 
 
 



From: Roy Radford
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 8:36 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple
Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
 




Hi,
John,

             
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Virtual processing"
here. If you mean handing a large chunk of the synth chore
back to the computer processor surely you're more or less
back to
Fluidsynth???

      Have
fun,

         
Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach
<***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From:
John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject:
Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files
and Fluidsynth
To:
jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17
April, 2011, 12:58


Graham,  thanks
for that explanation of how Fluidsynth differs from
Creative
in playback.  The AWE 64 soundcards
had piggyback or daughterboard memory
modules from 4
to 24 Megabytes that were expensive add-ons to those

soundcards.  With the SB Live! Audigy and X-Fi
soundcards, there is a
Soundfont Memory Cache
feature in the Soundfont Bank Manager which is

user-settable and, in my case, having 4 gigabytes of
physical memory, I
could allocate 2 gigabytes of
that to soundfont cache, if desired.  I keep
it
right around 100 Mb which accommodates a General Midi
Bank and the organ
soundfonts I may use in
jOrgan.  Like the difference between "physical

memory" and "virtual memory" in the
Accessories>System Tools>System
Information in
Windows, it would be nice if there were a "virtual

processing" capability with the Creative Labs cards
so they could handle all
the polyphony demands that
organs make on them.

John B.

-----Original
Message-----
From: Graham Goode
Sent: Sunday,
April 17, 2011 6:05 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject:
Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files
and
Fluidsynth

Hi John, Lynn, Roy, and all
following this thread.

The Creative Soundfont
player is a piece of logic (software) that
inhabits a
memory chip on the Creative Card. It loads the wave
files
and the sf2 management information into the
memory on the soundcard
(this is true of the early
models, I think later ones could have
access to your
user RAM) and then outputs the sounds directly to
the
audio chip on the Creative Card. Fluidsynth is a
piece of logic
(software) that inhabits the
computer's memory and uses the computers
CPU to load
the SF2 management information and produce the
sounds,
reverbs, chorus effects, etc. The Creative
SF2 player only has access
to the processing power of
the 'on-the-card' chip. Fluidsynth has
access to the
processing power of your whole computer.

The
greater polyphony from fluidsynth is a direct result of
this
access to greater processing power.

Hope
that makes sense :)
  Are the
greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth
as
compared
with Creative Sound
due to the way Fluidsynth handles the
soundfont?

Kind
regards,
GrahamG

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orgel jeux
2011-04-18 10:52:21 UTC
Permalink
Specially if you use all feets and fingers.......

Yes, with a multiple keybaords-synths-audio devices setup it soon gets
messy....

I have all my music USB's on a separate hub, and can plug it into the laptop
or the PC when switching computers.

Only the external audio device performs much better when it is connceted via
a direct USB.

The nice thing with my USB-Midi interface is, that it has 2 USB connections
that i can select with a switch.

But I guess you do not need to change much for playing the Christie; its all
software and you problably have 1 or more SB cards in there already.

A tip from me: connect all your Midi-ins and outs to the PC permanently, and
run a sequencer, used as Midi-patchboard.

Now you can assign each Midi kb in to a Midi out where you have your synth
connected, and by using software or hardware Midi loopcable, you can loop
midi out signals back into the PC for driving jOrgan etc.

What Midi interface do you use now for all these goodies??

An a bold question: could we get a picture of the whole setup??

Greetings,

Geert

By
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Geert,
I think it may be some while before I get around to the
Christie, I have two systems sharing one console. At the moment the garage
looks like an old time manual telephone exchange only done with USB plugs
instead of jacks!
I've also acquired another couple of Edirol SD-20s from e-bay, so I'll
have to re-arrange the dispo to suit. That should give me a total of 256
voices instead of the present 128, plus a few more routing options if I ever
come by a Neo Instruments Ventilator, you don't necessarily want the whole
orchestra given the Leslie wobble!
128 voices sounds a lot but, with 4 instruments on each of 4 divisions
and 7 footages available for each it's surprising how soon you can use them
up.
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 10:55
John, Roy,
I must admit ,that, while I have been using 3 SB cards in my PC all
together, i merely use their - for those times very advanced -
soundfont-playing capacities anymore.
Simply because since we have FS, there are so many good dispositions
created for them, that i do not need that anymore.
Although its sounds were indeed ok, the only nuisance was, that i often had
to load all different synths and banks with the proper soundfonts at
start-up.
But perhaps there is a solution nowadays for that??
Well, the Audigy 2 ZS that's still sitting in my modern PC performs quite
well used as a audio interface, even under WIN7-64 bit/s, albeit that the
EAX implementation is not quite as good as it was under XP
As not everybody has the SB cards, and later devices no longer had the
harwdare synths onboard, I think it is a dead route to stick to these.
Roy, what a surprise that you are going to try the software route playing
Rick's Christie.... I am anxious to hear how it sounds at your setup!!
Greetings,
Geert
...Funny how Synth Utopia always seems to be so near yet so far!
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 1:02
Yes, but as Graham G explained in an earlier post today, Fluidsynth, as a
software synthesizer, uses CPU power for everything, so I got the impression
from his explanation that the computer resources used for software
synthesizer sound processing are greater than those used by Creative Sound
since the soundfonts are loaded into RAM with the Creative Sound and the
soundcard chip is doing the processing whereas, with Fluidsynth, it is all
being done by the CPU. But there is the advantage with Fluidsynth of the
increased polyphony. That seems to be an issue for us jOrgan users.
John
*Sent:* Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:01 PM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
Hi, John,
So is any of this using computer memory or CPU power?
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 23:56
No, Roy, in the Audigy 2 ZS there are hardware synths A and B as in
other Creative Labs soundcards, but with the Audigy 2 ZS there is also a
Creative Software Synthesizer as an additional output option in the output
ports. I am not sure if there is any increased polyphony using the
Creative Software Synthesizer vis-à-vis the two hardware Synths A or B. I
am also not sure why, if there is no advantage except perhaps some
production cost factor, Creative packaged a software synth as part of the
Audigy 2 ZS firmware. I use the Audigy 2 ZS as the MIDI hardware interface
for the X-Fi Xtreme Music soundcard I use with the midified Allen Organ, so
I don’t actually use the Creative Sound output from the Audigy 2 ZS card,
rather from the X-Fi. The newer soundcards do not have the MIDI/Gameport
connector that older soundcards did and I have had trouble with a Yamaha USB
Midi cable and driver, so I prefer to go with what I know and what works.
I only use the Maple Virtual Midi Cable with jOrgan in conjunction with a
music sequencer program that I use for Midi file playback or inputting to
the jOrgan recorder application and customizing pre-existent midi files
through jOrgan and its recorder.
John
*From:* Roy Radford
*Sent:* Sunday, April 17, 2011 5:38 PM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
Hi, John,
So why would that be better than Fluidsynth if they both need
computer resources? Are you saying that Creative simply did a better job of
a software synth than Fluidsynth?
I'm a bit confused about the MIDI outputs. Surely the OUTPUT of a synth
is audio? Did you mean MIDI INPUTS?
If so, can the synth still be driven internally via some sort of virtual
MIDI cable... Something you could connect to jOrgan?
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 21:58
That’s exactly what I meant, Roy. In Audigy 2 ZS-- there is a Creative
SW (software) Synthesizer that is an assignable option to a midi output
port
- Creative Software synthesizer – multi timbral wave-table (16
Channels)
- 2 MIDI I/O ports (2×16 channels) (gameport adapter required for MIDI
I/O 2)
I have used it with my music sequencer program. Does a nice job. So you
would think, wouldn’t you, that they would make that a competitive option in
the soundcards that they have produced since Audigy?
They really need to overcome the polyphony limitation since that is the
only thing that really keeps Creative Sound from being the best sound for
organ voices that is currently available in PC soundcards.
John
*From:* Roy Radford
*Sent:* Sunday, April 17, 2011 8:36 AM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
Hi, John,
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Virtual processing"
here. If you mean handing a large chunk of the synth chore back to the
computer processor surely you're more or less back to Fluidsynth???
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 12:58
Graham, thanks for that explanation of how Fluidsynth differs from Creative
in playback. The AWE 64 soundcards had piggyback or daughterboard memory
modules from 4 to 24 Megabytes that were expensive add-ons to those
soundcards. With the SB Live! Audigy and X-Fi soundcards, there is a
Soundfont Memory Cache feature in the Soundfont Bank Manager which is
user-settable and, in my case, having 4 gigabytes of physical memory, I
could allocate 2 gigabytes of that to soundfont cache, if desired. I keep
it right around 100 Mb which accommodates a General Midi Bank and the organ
soundfonts I may use in jOrgan. Like the difference between "physical
memory" and "virtual memory" in the Accessories>System Tools>System
Information in Windows, it would be nice if there were a "virtual
processing" capability with the Creative Labs cards so they could handle all
the polyphony demands that organs make on them.
John B.
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Goode
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
Hi John, Lynn, Roy, and all following this thread.
The Creative Soundfont player is a piece of logic (software) that
inhabits a memory chip on the Creative Card. It loads the wave files
and the sf2 management information into the memory on the soundcard
(this is true of the early models, I think later ones could have
access to your user RAM) and then outputs the sounds directly to the
audio chip on the Creative Card. Fluidsynth is a piece of logic
(software) that inhabits the computer's memory and uses the computers
CPU to load the SF2 management information and produce the sounds,
reverbs, chorus effects, etc. The Creative SF2 player only has access
to the processing power of the 'on-the-card' chip. Fluidsynth has
access to the processing power of your whole computer.
The greater polyphony from fluidsynth is a direct result of this
access to greater processing power.
Hope that makes sense :)
Post by John Beach
Are the greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth as
compared
with Creative Sound due to the way Fluidsynth handles the soundfont?
Kind regards,
GrahamG
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Roy Radford
2011-04-19 13:47:26 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Geert,

              I don't have a picture of all the present setup but here's one from last year. The console is still the same.







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Loading Image...




   I would include constructional details but I'm not sure whether people's carpentry skills would be up to it, it's not everyone can build something like this! Any resemblance to a pile of scrap chipboard is purely accidental... 
    ...Come to think of it, so is any resemblance to an organ console!  


      Please note, the object seen in front of the computer keyboard is essential to the proper operation of this instrument!


      Have fun,

             Roy.


--- On Mon, 18/4/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 11:52

Specially if you use all feets and fingers.......

Yes, with a multiple keybaords-synths-audio devices setup it soon gets messy....

I have all my music USB's on a separate hub, and can plug it into the laptop or the PC when switching computers.


Only the external audio device performs much better when it is connceted via a direct USB.

The nice thing with my USB-Midi interface is, that it has 2 USB connections that i can select with a switch.

But I guess you do not need to change much for playing the Christie; its all software and you problably have 1 or more SB cards in there already.


A tip from me: connect all your Midi-ins and outs to the PC permanently, and run a sequencer, used as Midi-patchboard.

Now you can assign each Midi kb in to a Midi out where you have your synth connected, and by using software or hardware Midi loopcable, you can loop midi out signals back into the PC for driving jOrgan etc.


What Midi interface do you use now for all these goodies??

An a bold question: could we get a picture of the whole setup??

Greetings,

Geert

By

2011/4/18 Roy Radford <***@yahoo.co.uk>


Hi, Geert,

              I think it may be some while before I get around to the Christie, I have two systems sharing one console. At the moment the garage looks like an old time manual telephone exchange only done with USB plugs instead of jacks!


    I've also acquired another couple of Edirol SD-20s from e-bay, so I'll have to re-arrange the dispo to suit. That should give me a total of 256 voices instead of the present 128, plus a few more routing options if I ever come by a Neo Instruments Ventilator, you don't necessarily want the whole orchestra given the Leslie wobble!


   128 voices sounds a lot but, with 4 instruments on each of 4 divisions and 7 footages available for each it's surprising how soon you can use them
up.

       Have fun,

           Roy.


--- On Mon, 18/4/11, orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> wrote:


From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 10:55

John, Roy,

I must admit ,that, while I have been using 3 SB cards in my PC all together, i merely use their - for those times very advanced - soundfont-playing capacities anymore.


Simply because since we have FS, there are so many good dispositions created for them, that i do not need that anymore.


Although its sounds were indeed ok, the only nuisance was, that i often had to load all different synths and banks with the proper soundfonts at start-up.
But perhaps there is a solution nowadays for that??



Well, the Audigy 2 ZS that's still sitting in my modern PC performs quite well  used as a audio interface, even under WIN7-64 bit/s, albeit that the EAX implementation is not quite as good as it was under XP

As not everybody has the SB cards, and later devices no longer had the harwdare synths onboard, I think it is a dead route to stick to these.



Roy, what a surprise that you are going to try the software route playing Rick's Christie.... I am anxious to hear how it sounds at your setup!!

Greetings,

Geert

2011/4/18 Roy Radford <***@yahoo.co.uk>



    ...Funny how Synth Utopia always seems to be so near yet so far!


         Have fun,

            Roy.


--- On Mon, 18/4/11, John Beach <***@fairpoint.net> wrote:



From: John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>


Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 1:02




Yes, but as Graham G explained in an earlier post today, Fluidsynth, as a
software synthesizer, uses CPU power for everything, so I got the impression
from his explanation that the computer resources used for software synthesizer
sound processing are greater than those used by Creative Sound since the
soundfonts are loaded into RAM with the Creative Sound and the soundcard chip is
doing the processing whereas, with Fluidsynth, it is all being done by the
CPU.   But there is the advantage with Fluidsynth of the increased
polyphony.  That seems to be an issue for us jOrgan users.
 
John


 

From: Roy Radford
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:01 PM
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
 




   Hi,
John,

                
So is any of this using computer memory or CPU
power?

    Have
fun,

      
Roy.

 

--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach
<***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From:
John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To:
jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011,
23:56





No, Roy, in the Audigy 2 ZS there are hardware synths A and B as in
other Creative Labs soundcards, but with the Audigy 2 ZS there is also a
Creative Software Synthesizer as an additional output option in the
output ports.   I am not sure if there is any increased
polyphony using the Creative Software Synthesizer vis-à-vis the two
hardware Synths A or B.  I am also not sure why, if there is no
advantage except perhaps some production cost factor, Creative packaged
a software synth as part of the Audigy 2 ZS firmware.   I use
the Audigy 2 ZS as the MIDI hardware interface for the X-Fi Xtreme Music
soundcard I use with the midified Allen Organ, so I don’t actually use
the Creative Sound output from the Audigy 2 ZS card, rather from the
X-Fi.   The newer soundcards do not have the MIDI/Gameport
connector that older soundcards did and I have had trouble with a Yamaha
USB Midi cable and driver, so I prefer to go with what I know and what
works.    I only use the Maple Virtual Midi Cable with
jOrgan in conjunction with a music sequencer program that I use for Midi
file playback or inputting to the jOrgan recorder application and
customizing pre-existent midi files through jOrgan and its
recorder.
 
John
 
 


 

From: Roy Radford

Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 5:38 PM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont
Files and Fluidsynth
 




Hi,
John,

           
So why would that be better than Fluidsynth if they both need
computer resources? Are you saying that Creative simply did a
better job of a software synth than
Fluidsynth?

   I'm a bit confused about the MIDI
outputs. Surely the OUTPUT of a synth is audio? Did you mean MIDI
INPUTS?

   If so, can the synth still be driven
internally via some sort of virtual MIDI cable... Something you
could connect to jOrgan?


     Have
fun,

       
Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach
<***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From:
John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and
Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date:
Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 21:58





That’s exactly what I meant, Roy.  In Audigy 2 ZS--
there is a Creative SW (software) Synthesizer that  is an
assignable option to a midi  output port

Creative
Software synthesizer – multi timbral wave-table (16
Channels)
2 MIDI I/O
ports (2×16 channels) (gameport adapter required for MIDI I/O
2)
 
I have used it with my music sequencer
program.  Does a nice job.  So you would think,
wouldn’t you, that they would make that a competitive option in
the soundcards that they have produced since
Audigy?
They really need to overcome the polyphony
limitation since that is the only thing that really keeps
Creative Sound from being the best sound for organ voices that
is currently available in PC soundcards.
 
John
 
 
 
 
 
 



From: Roy Radford
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 8:36 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple
Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
 




Hi,
John,

             
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Virtual processing"
here. If you mean handing a large chunk of the synth chore
back to the computer processor surely you're more or less
back to
Fluidsynth???

      Have
fun,

         
Roy.


--- On Sun, 17/4/11, John Beach
<***@fairpoint.net> wrote:


From:
John Beach <***@fairpoint.net>
Subject:
Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files
and Fluidsynth
To:
jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Sunday, 17
April, 2011, 12:58


Graham,  thanks
for that explanation of how Fluidsynth differs from
Creative
in playback.  The AWE 64 soundcards
had piggyback or daughterboard memory
modules from 4
to 24 Megabytes that were expensive add-ons to those

soundcards.  With the SB Live! Audigy and X-Fi
soundcards, there is a
Soundfont Memory Cache
feature in the Soundfont Bank Manager which is

user-settable and, in my case, having 4 gigabytes of
physical memory, I
could allocate 2 gigabytes of
that to soundfont cache, if desired.  I keep
it
right around 100 Mb which accommodates a General Midi
Bank and the organ
soundfonts I may use in
jOrgan.  Like the difference between "physical

memory" and "virtual memory" in the
Accessories>System Tools>System
Information in
Windows, it would be nice if there were a "virtual

processing" capability with the Creative Labs cards
so they could handle all
the polyphony demands that
organs make on them.

John B.

-----Original
Message-----
From: Graham Goode
Sent: Sunday,
April 17, 2011 6:05 AM
To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject:
Re: [jOrgan-user] [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files
and
Fluidsynth

Hi John, Lynn, Roy, and all
following this thread.

The Creative Soundfont
player is a piece of logic (software) that
inhabits a
memory chip on the Creative Card. It loads the wave
files
and the sf2 management information into the
memory on the soundcard
(this is true of the early
models, I think later ones could have
access to your
user RAM) and then outputs the sounds directly to
the
audio chip on the Creative Card. Fluidsynth is a
piece of logic
(software) that inhabits the
computer's memory and uses the computers
CPU to load
the SF2 management information and produce the
sounds,
reverbs, chorus effects, etc. The Creative
SF2 player only has access
to the processing power of
the 'on-the-card' chip. Fluidsynth has
access to the
processing power of your whole computer.

The
greater polyphony from fluidsynth is a direct result of
this
access to greater processing power.

Hope
that makes sense :)
  Are the
greater polyphony capabilities of Fluidsynth
as
compared
with Creative Sound
due to the way Fluidsynth handles the
soundfont?

Kind
regards,
GrahamG

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Chris P
2011-04-19 15:56:09 UTC
Permalink
Roy
If you haven't seen this,
you
will see how I modified my kbs so that they stacked to English organ
standards, if there is one!
Regards
Chris



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orgel jeux
2011-04-19 18:55:47 UTC
Permalink
Chris,

This is really nice.....and a good PR for the English gothic styles.
Chris P
2011-04-20 15:38:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Geert

< I am curious what reverb you use, as I think that could make it even
better, as to my ( personal!) taste this piece sounds excellent in a
cathedral reverb.

This was recorded using jOrgan v3.12 with the Fluidsynth reverb.

< do you use a hammond 25 note pedalboard?

The pedalboard is the original Conn 25 note board which I had to rewire and
midi-fy using the PCB from a small USB midi kb. It needs extending to 30
notes (not enought room for 32). So I will wait till Roy has finish his
"heap" and get the expert carpenter in. Red or White?, Roy.

<how is the swellpedal modelled?

The expression pedal, which I have set up to control both the Swell & Choir
simultaneously, is also the original Conn with an appropriate rotary
potentiometer replacing the original.

Regards
Chris

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orgel jeux
2011-04-23 19:54:20 UTC
Permalink
Chris,

This is my contribution to the Suite Gothique.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26426113/SuiteGothiqueChoral.mp3

Lots of reverb, as I think this one needs it.

Hope you like it!

Greetings,

Geert
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Geert
< I am curious what reverb you use, as I think that could make it even
better, as to my ( personal!) taste this piece sounds excellent in a
cathedral reverb.
This was recorded using jOrgan v3.12 with the Fluidsynth reverb.
< do you use a hammond 25 note pedalboard?
The pedalboard is the original Conn 25 note board which I had to rewire and
midi-fy using the PCB from a small USB midi kb. It needs extending to 30
notes (not enought room for 32). So I will wait till Roy has finish his
"heap" and get the expert carpenter in. Red or White?, Roy.
<how is the swellpedal modelled?
The expression pedal, which I have set up to control both the Swell & Choir
simultaneously, is also the original Conn with an appropriate rotary
potentiometer replacing the original.
Regards
Chris
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Chris P
2011-04-24 10:32:03 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Geert
Very good playing and sound. Can I guess the organ is HW Metz!
Don't know what registration you are using, but could I suggest
(respectfully) a little more pianissimo were marked in the score! Perhaps
particulary at the end of this first movement, which I feel would add more
to the musical change from the almost solemn Maestoso to the bouncy Minuet.

Yes, I agree with lots of reverb as Boellman and the others would have heard
it and probabley composed for.

I am just in the process of upgrading my jOrgans to use "Reverberate" and am
using their cathedaral reverb. My favourite organs are large church and
cathedral organs.

Regards
Chris

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orgel jeux
2011-04-24 19:34:15 UTC
Permalink
nearly good guess.....

In the score I have over here, there is only a diminuendo in the last held
chord.....
Could you pls tell me, where I would have to use more diminuendo's?

It is the Schyvven-van Bever organ in Brussels. Actually this is a sampleset
that stems from the beginning of organ-sampling techniques. But when using
full organ it is still quite impressive, also because of the reverb.

The HW Metz is much too expensive for me; besides there are other CC
samplesets that are more to my taste.

I used here a small subset of the Schyvven that is sold separately.

Now this is my first and last example with HW sampleset, because i do not
like to get these comments again that it is too off topic.
But I could not resist this, just because I liked to show you the importance
of reverb.

Next one will be a jOrgan disposition.

Many thanks for listening, Chris, and the comments you gave.

Geert
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Geert
Very good playing and sound. Can I guess the organ is HW Metz!
Don't know what registration you are using, but could I suggest
(respectfully) a little more pianissimo were marked in the score! Perhaps
particulary at the end of this first movement, which I feel would add more
to the musical change from the almost solemn Maestoso to the bouncy Minuet.
Yes, I agree with lots of reverb as Boellman and the others would have heard
it and probabley composed for.
I am just in the process of upgrading my jOrgans to use "Reverberate" and am
using their cathedaral reverb. My favourite organs are large church and
cathedral organs.
Regards
Chris
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Chris P
2011-04-25 13:15:12 UTC
Permalink
Geert
I said pianissimo, not diminuendo ;-)
In the copy that I have, which is Polish! Bars 9-16 and the last 3 1/2 bars
are marked "p" with a "dim" in the last bar. But one must use some artistic
licence in interpreting music!
And, yes, it is nice to hear what other "jOrganists" are doing.
Regards
Chris P



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orgel jeux
2011-04-26 07:32:49 UTC
Permalink
Chris,

I think we have the same score. Got it from the Int Music Score Lib Project.
I think it is Russian.

You spoke about* pianissimo* but I cannot find any pp, only p.

Well, anyhow, I will listen to some performances to compare; probably the
reason for the p-parts sounding too loud is, that my hearing has lost some
35 dB, which means, that he dynamic range of the organ is exceeding my own
range by a sybstantial means.

So I always have to put up the volume in soft parts in order to enjoy it
That's why I probably used a too loud registration for the p parts.

I find it very satisfying to exchange these organ-playing matters, as we
can learn from eact other's comments .

Perhaps the jOrgan can - apart from the technical issues - also be a
platform for exchanging these kind of things.

I am now trying to repeat the Gothique Choral with the CC, and some nice
cathedral effect added.

Greetings,

Geert
Post by Chris P
Geert
I said pianissimo, not diminuendo ;-)
In the copy that I have, which is Polish! Bars 9-16 and the last 3 1/2 bars
are marked "p" with a "dim" in the last bar. But one must use some artistic
licence in interpreting music!
And, yes, it is nice to hear what other "jOrganists" are doing.
Regards
Chris P
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Chris P
2011-04-26 12:52:59 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Geert
You spoke about pianissimo but I cannot find any pp, only p.
Yes, I did originally say pianissimo (pp) , which was a typing error ;-)
I did correct myself in a later post to piano (p).
I think we have the same score. Got it from the Int Music Score Lib
Project. I think it is Russian.

We don't have exactly the same copy, the titles for each movement in my copy
are in Polish, not Russian. The musical notation though is identical as far
as the individual movement downloadable copies are concerned on IMSLP.
Well, anyhow, I will listen to some performances to compare; probably the
reason for the p-parts sounding too loud is, that my hearing has lost some
35 dB, which means, that he dynamic range of the organ is exceeding my own
range by a sybstantial means.

Hearing loss! I have a similar problem, Ok from 13Hz up to 3kHz, a drop of
35dB also in the range 3 to 8kHz, above that - totally deaf. I have some
special hearing aids to correct the drop in the 3 to 8kHz range.

<Perhaps the jOrgan can - apart from the technical issues - also be a
platform for exchanging these kind of things.

We have already started, just carry on till somebody forbids it.
I am now trying to repeat the Gothique Choral with the CC, and some nice
cathedral effect added.

Just had a look at the organ that Boellmann used to play in Paris, a CC. I
am going to have a go at making a disposition for it.


Regards
Chris

P.S. The Elgar "Chanson de Matin" does have quite a fair amount of stacatto
in it.








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Lynn Walls
2011-04-19 20:14:39 UTC
Permalink
Roy,

Why do you have your bottom keyboard physically offset by an octave?

CLW
----------------------------
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Geert,
I don't have a picture of all the present setup but here's one from last year. The console
is still the same.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26502313/2009_0929jOrgan_Rig0016.JPG
I would include constructional details but I'm not sure whether people's carpentry skills
would be up to it, it's not everyone can build something like this! Any resemblance to a
pile of scrap chipboard is purely accidental...
...Come to think of it, so is any resemblance to an organ console!
Please note, the object seen in front of the computer keyboard is essential to the proper
operation of this instrument!
Graham Harrison
2011-04-19 21:17:27 UTC
Permalink
Lynn

If you zoom in and count, you will see that these are only four-octave
keyboards.

GrahamH

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Walls" <***@gmail.com>
To: <jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Roy's Heap
Post by Lynn Walls
Roy,
Why do you have your bottom keyboard physically offset by an octave?
CLW
----------------------------
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Geert,
I don't have a picture of all the present setup but here's one from last
year. The console
is still the same.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26502313/2009_0929jOrgan_Rig0016.JPG
I would include constructional details but I'm not sure whether people's carpentry skills
would be up to it, it's not everyone can build something like this! Any resemblance to a
pile of scrap chipboard is purely accidental...
...Come to think of it, so is any resemblance to an organ console!
Please note, the object seen in front of the computer keyboard is essential to the proper
operation of this instrument!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
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application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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orgel jeux
2011-04-20 10:28:43 UTC
Permalink
Wow, what all these 3 consoles have in common:

LOTS of stopswitches!! Im jealous of that; I am still in the process of
selecting the right - and cheap - ones for my console.

THe left one, which make is it?? And I see, that you also have this 25 note
pedalboard which is nearly the same as the Hammond.

So why, Roy, did you make this 13-note one??

There are old pipe organs that only have 4 octaves.

Is fully playable, as you can always transpose 1 octave down.
( not for newer organ music of course).

greetings,

Geert ( nice this dropbox facility...)
Post by Graham Harrison
Lynn
If you zoom in and count, you will see that these are only four-octave
keyboards.
GrahamH
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Roy's Heap
Post by Lynn Walls
Roy,
Why do you have your bottom keyboard physically offset by an octave?
CLW
----------------------------
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Geert,
I don't have a picture of all the present setup but here's one from last
year. The console
is still the same.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26502313/2009_0929jOrgan_Rig0016.JPG
I would include constructional details but I'm not sure whether people's
carpentry skills
would be up to it, it's not everyone can build something like this! Any
resemblance to a
pile of scrap chipboard is purely accidental...
...Come to think of it, so is any resemblance to an organ console!
Please note, the object seen in front of the computer keyboard is
essential to the proper
operation of this instrument!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Lynn Walls
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
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Post by Lynn Walls
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
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06:34:00
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Tom Karches
2011-04-20 12:48:01 UTC
Permalink
With the Roland, The top keyboard is more like 4 1/2 octaves - 57 keys
The bottom keyboard is over 6 octaves - 76 keys

The bottom one does not begin at C.

I understand the stagger, but why the odd starting and stopping points?

--tom
Post by Lynn Walls
Roy,
Why do you have your bottom keyboard physically offset by an octave?
CLW
----------------------------
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Geert,
I don't have a picture of all the present setup but here's one from last year. The console
is still the same.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26502313/2009_0929jOrgan_Rig0016.JPG
I would include constructional details but I'm not sure whether people's carpentry skills
would be up to it, it's not everyone can build something like this! Any resemblance to a
pile of scrap chipboard is purely accidental...
...Come to think of it, so is any resemblance to an organ console!
Please note, the object seen in front of the computer keyboard is essential to the proper
operation of this instrument!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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--
Tom Karches
***@gmail.com
Roy Radford
2011-04-19 21:03:52 UTC
Permalink
   Because it's mainly played with the left hand, which is also offset in that direction!  

   Seriously though, it's because it's a 49 key keyboard. If it was 61 they would be stacked vertically. As I've often remarked, I'm not a pipe man at heart, I'm a 'lectric man, and that's the way it usually is with 'lectric organs.







p { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; }a:link { }

https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/26502313/1/Organ%20Pictures?h=849e44




    Have fun,

        Roy.


--- On Tue, 19/4/11, Lynn Walls <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Lynn Walls <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Roy's Heap
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Tuesday, 19 April, 2011, 21:14

Roy,

Why do you have your bottom keyboard physically offset by an octave?

CLW
----------------------------
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Geert,
I don't have a picture of all the present setup but here's one from last year. The console
is still the same.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26502313/2009_0929jOrgan_Rig0016.JPG
I would include constructional details but I'm not sure whether people's carpentry skills
would be up to it, it's not everyone can build something like this! Any resemblance to a
pile of scrap chipboard is purely accidental...
...Come to think of it, so is any resemblance to an organ console!
Please note, the object seen in front of the computer keyboard is essential to the proper
operation of this instrument!
Panos Ghekas
2011-04-20 10:58:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi Geert,My EL900 el.Organ has two 49note keyboards (offset) and a 20note pedalboard and full of stop switches (see my pics I dropboxed before).BUT, don't be fooled by the switches : they do not send note on/off messages sadly..This beast sends only from its 16 pistons and 5 combi stops only in midi channel 16 along with its two pedals cc11 and cc4. (upper ch1, lower ch2, ped ch3)It works ok with many sets. As I posted elsewhere, 16 general combinations can do a lot of work, provided one can create more memory banks in its sofware organ.
My latest plans are for a very small and versatile organ console containing just a 49 keyboard controller, a 13note pedalboard (sticks), a music stand and a place for a small lap. It will be best for Medieval, Rennaissance and early music works and can use sets from these eras or construct as needed.The cost is less : A good 49keyboard is from 130 to 250 Euros, 13 pedal about 500, small lap 300 two good self amped spekers 400 and some wood for the console around 200. Sum : 1.850 euros.Sound : superb. Physical layout : very close to reality. One cannot buy this quality in a hardware organ for 1.850e. Fact.
BestPanos
--- Óôéò Ôåô., 20/04/11, ï/ç orgel jeux <***@gmail.com> Ýãñáøå:

Áðü: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
ÈÝìá: Re: [jOrgan-user] Roy's Heap
Ðñïò: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Çìåñïìçíßá: ÔåôÜñôç, 20 Áðñßëéïò 2011, 10:28

Wow, what  all these 3 consoles have in common:

LOTS of stopswitches!!  Im jealous of that; I am still in the process of selecting the right - and cheap - ones for my console.

THe left one, which make is it??  And I see, that you also have this 25 note pedalboard which is nearly the same as the Hammond.


So why, Roy, did you make this 13-note one??

There are old pipe organs that only have 4 octaves.

 Is fully playable, as you can always transpose 1 octave down.
( not for newer organ music of course).


greetings,

Geert ( nice this dropbox facility...)

2011/4/19 Graham Harrison <***@virgin.net>

Lynn



If you zoom in and count, you will see that these are only four-octave

keyboards.



GrahamH



----- Original Message -----

From: "Lynn Walls" <***@gmail.com>

To: <jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net>

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 9:14 PM

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Roy's Heap
Post by Lynn Walls
Roy,
Why do you have your bottom keyboard physically offset by an octave?
CLW
----------------------------
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Geert,
I don't have a picture of all the present setup but here's one from last
year. The console
is still the same.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26502313/2009_0929jOrgan_Rig0016.JPG
I would include constructional details but I'm not sure whether people's
carpentry skills
would be up to it, it's not everyone can build something like this! Any
resemblance to a
pile of scrap chipboard is purely accidental...
...Come to think of it, so is any resemblance to an organ console!
Please note, the object seen in front of the computer keyboard is
essential to the proper
operation of this instrument!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------







No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3583 - Release Date: 04/19/11

06:34:00





------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload

Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top

priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve

application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting

the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev

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-----Áêïëïõèåß óõíçììÝíï-----
Rick (greenfox)
2011-04-20 15:03:35 UTC
Permalink
The christie disposition should work with all you pistons straight out
of the box.

Regards
Rick
Post by Panos Ghekas
Hi Geert,
My EL900 el.Organ has two 49note keyboards (offset) and a 20note
pedalboard and full of stop switches (see my pics I dropboxed before).
BUT, don't be fooled by the switches : they do not send note on/off
messages sadly..
This beast sends only from its 16 pistons and 5 combi stops only in
midi channel 16 along with its two pedals cc11 and cc4. (upper ch1,
lower ch2, ped ch3)
It works ok with many sets. As I posted elsewhere, 16 general
combinations can do a lot of work, provided one can create more memory
banks in its sofware organ.
Roy Radford
2011-04-20 11:31:54 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Geert,


...What these 3 consoles have in common is I don't own any of them, they are just pictures I downloaded from the Web to illustrate a point about staggered keyboards!

   Here's one I DO own though, also downloaded from the web and not bought from the company advertised in the picture! Mine has a blown bass speaker following a power supply fault. I rarely play it since I built the Edirol contraption, which is loosely based on it. I've never played more than 13 pedals, nor do I have any music which needs it.







p { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; }a:link { }

Loading Image...





    The left hand one in the older set of pictures is Orla. If you let your mouse hover over the thumbnails it should show the filenames, which identify the makes.


    Yes, I'm quite taken with Dropbox on very short acquaintance. I'm going to try to use it to synchronise all the stuff I've got scattered over 5-6 computers. Don't hold your breath!


     Have fun,

         Roy. 
From: orgel jeux <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Roy's Heap
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Wednesday, 20 April, 2011, 11:28

Wow, what  all these 3 consoles have in common:

LOTS of stopswitches!!  Im jealous of that; I am still in the process of selecting the right - and cheap - ones for my console.

THe left one, which make is it??  And I see, that you also have this 25 note pedalboard which is nearly the same as the Hammond.


So why, Roy, did you make this 13-note one??

There are old pipe organs that only have 4 octaves.

 Is fully playable, as you can always transpose 1 octave down.
( not for newer organ music of course).


greetings,

Geert ( nice this dropbox facility...)

2011/4/19 Graham Harrison <***@virgin.net>

Lynn



If you zoom in and count, you will see that these are only four-octave

keyboards.



GrahamH



----- Original Message -----

From: "Lynn Walls" <***@gmail.com>

To: <jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net>

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 9:14 PM

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Roy's Heap
Post by Lynn Walls
Roy,
Why do you have your bottom keyboard physically offset by an octave?
CLW
----------------------------
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Geert,
I don't have a picture of all the present setup but here's one from last
year. The console
is still the same.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26502313/2009_0929jOrgan_Rig0016.JPG
I would include constructional details but I'm not sure whether people's
carpentry skills
would be up to it, it's not everyone can build something like this! Any
resemblance to a
pile of scrap chipboard is purely accidental...
...Come to think of it, so is any resemblance to an organ console!
Please note, the object seen in front of the computer keyboard is
essential to the proper
operation of this instrument!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about
boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------







No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3583 - Release Date: 04/19/11

06:34:00





------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload

Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top

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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Roy Radford
2011-04-20 13:21:51 UTC
Permalink
Tom Karches
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Permalink
--0-2026126300-1303305711=:67317
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

   I guess you'd have to ask Roland that! I should imagine the long bottom keyboard is for playing it as a piano???

     Have fun,

         Roy.


--- On Wed, 20/4/11, Tom Karches <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Tom Karches <***@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Roy's Heap
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Wednesday, 20 April, 2011, 13:48

With the Roland, The top keyboard is more like 4 1/2 octaves - 57 keys
The bottom keyboard is over 6 octaves - 76 keys

The bottom one does not begin at C.

I understand the stagger, but why the odd starting and stopping points?

--tom
Post by Lynn Walls
Roy,
Why do you have your bottom keyboard physically offset by an octave?
CLW
----------------------------
Post by Roy Radford
Hi, Geert,
I don't have a picture of all the present setup but here's one from last year. The console
is still the same.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26502313/2009_0929jOrgan_Rig0016.JPG
I would include constructional details but I'm not sure whether people's carpentry skills
would be up to it, it's not everyone can build something like this! Any resemblance to a
pile of scrap chipboard is purely accidental...
...Come to think of it, so is any resemblance to an organ console!
Please note, the object seen in front of the computer keyboard is essential to the proper
operation of this instrument!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload
Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve
application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
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--
Tom Karches
***@gmail.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top
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application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting
the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev
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--0-2026126300-1303305711=:67317
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">&nbsp;&nbsp; I guess you'd have to ask Roland that! I should imagine the long bottom keyboard is for playing it as a piano???<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Have fun,<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Roy.<br><br><br>--- On <b>Wed, 20/4/11, Tom Karches <i>&lt;***@gmail.com&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Tom Karches &lt;***@gmail.com&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Roy's Heap<br>To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net<br>Date: Wednesday, 20 April, 2011, 13:48<br><br><div class="plainMail">With the Roland, The top keyboard is more like 4 1/2 octaves - 57 keys<br>The bottom keyboard is over 6 octaves - 76 keys<br><br>The bottom one does not begin at C.<br><br>I understand the stagger, but why the odd starting and stopping
points?<br><br>--tom<br><br>On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Lynn Walls &lt;<a ymailto="mailto:***@gmail.com" href="/mc/compose?to=***@gmail.com">***@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; Roy,<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Why do you have your bottom keyboard physically offset by an octave?<br>&gt;<br>&gt; CLW<br>&gt; ----------------------------<br>&gt;<br>&gt; On 4/19/2011 9:47 AM, Roy Radford wrote:<br>&gt;&gt; Hi, Geert,<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; I don't have a picture of all the present setup but here's one from last year. The console<br>&gt;&gt; is still the same.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26502313/2009_0929jOrgan_Rig0016.JPG" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26502313/2009_0929jOrgan_Rig0016.JPG</a><br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; I would include constructional details but I'm not sure whether people's carpentry skills<br>&gt;&gt; would be up to it, it's not everyone can build something like this! Any
resemblance to a<br>&gt;&gt; pile of scrap chipboard is purely accidental...<br>&gt;&gt; ...Come to think of it, so is any resemblance to an organ console!<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Please note, the object seen in front of the computer keyboard is essential to the proper<br>&gt;&gt; operation of this instrument!<br>&gt;<br>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>&gt; Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload<br>&gt; Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top<br>&gt; priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve<br>&gt; application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting<br>&gt; the value of server virtualization. <a href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev</a><br>&gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt; jOrgan-user mailing
list<br>&gt; <a ymailto="mailto:jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net" href="/mc/compose?to=jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net">jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>&gt; <a href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user" target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user</a><br>&gt;<br><br><br><br>-- <br>Tom Karches<br><a ymailto="mailto:***@gmail.com" href="/mc/compose?to=***@gmail.com">***@gmail.com</a><br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload <br>Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top<br>priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve <br>application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting <br>the value of server virtualization. <a href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev"
target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>jOrgan-user mailing list<br><a ymailto="mailto:jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net" href="/mc/compose?to=jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net">jOrgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user" target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user</a><br></div></blockquote></td></tr></table>
--0-2026126300-1303305711=:67317--
Roy Radford
2011-04-20 15:44:02 UTC
Permalink
   " Red or White?, Roy."

    I don't really mind, so long as he's a good carpenter!


        Have fun,

            Roy.


--- On Wed, 20/4/11, Chris P <***@ntlworld.com> wrote:

From: Chris P <***@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Roy's Heap, was: [PROPOSAL] Multiple Soundfont Files and Fluidsynth
To: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Wednesday, 20 April, 2011, 16:38

Hi, Geert

< I am curious what reverb you use, as I think that could make it even
better, as to my ( personal!) taste this piece sounds excellent in a
cathedral reverb.

This was recorded using jOrgan v3.12 with the Fluidsynth reverb.

< do you use a hammond 25 note pedalboard?

The pedalboard is the original Conn 25 note board which I had to rewire and
midi-fy using the PCB from a small USB midi kb. It needs extending to 30
notes (not enought room for 32). So I will wait till Roy has finish his
"heap" and get the expert carpenter in. Red or White?, Roy.

<how is the swellpedal modelled?

The expression pedal, which I have set up to control both the Swell & Choir
simultaneously, is also the original Conn with an appropriate rotary
potentiometer replacing the original.

Regards
Chris

-----
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/portaudio-further-testing-tp3454305p3463378.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Panos Ghekas
2011-04-20 18:51:39 UTC
Permalink
Hi Rick.YEAH, it does. I'm a Christie fanatic remember ?And to praise a little more Christie, it's the only disposition that sounds very good from EL900's 240w amp/6 speakers stereo sytem beneath keyboards + 2 L&R up front !!
I believe it's the designer's talent !
Have fun !Panos

--- Óôéò Ôåô., 20/04/11, ï/ç Rick (greenfox) <***@gmail.com> Ýãñáøå:

Áðü: Rick (greenfox) <***@gmail.com>
ÈÝìá: Re: [jOrgan-user] Roy's Heap
Ðñïò: jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Çìåñïìçíßá: ÔåôÜñôç, 20 Áðñßëéïò 2011, 15:03

The christie disposition should work with all you pistons straight out
of the box.

Regards
Rick
Post by Panos Ghekas
Hi Geert,
My EL900 el.Organ has two 49note keyboards (offset) and a 20note
pedalboard and full of stop switches (see my pics I dropboxed before).
BUT, don't be fooled by the switches : they do not send note on/off
messages sadly..
This beast sends only from its 16 pistons and 5 combi stops only in
midi channel 16 along with its two pedals cc11 and cc4. (upper ch1,
lower ch2, ped ch3)
It works ok with many sets. As I posted elsewhere, 16 general
combinations can do a lot of work, provided one can create more memory
banks in its sofware organ.
Rick (greenfox)
2011-04-20 21:05:43 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Panos
Post by Panos Ghekas
Hi Rick.
YEAH, it does. I'm a Christie fanatic remember ?
And to praise a little more Christie, it's the only disposition that
sounds very good from EL900's 240w amp/6 speakers stereo sytem beneath
keyboards + 2 L&R up front !!
I believe it's the designer's talent !
Have fun !
Panos
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